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Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ

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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:45 pm

OH man thanks Raffy. I have been using Reforgerade for a long time, and your output was so close I was manually updating it. Saves me some time.

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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby raffy » Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:20 pm

Catus now has support for Upgradeable, <Random Enchantment> gear, like Bracers of the Midnight Comet:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2989349/CatusRandomEnchant.png
I was wondering if anyone has a actual profile with any <Random Enchantment> gear equipped so I could test my importer?
It doesn't need to be the bracers, it could be any item.
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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby Yriss » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:52 pm

i have these bracers, with crit rating, u can try with my profile http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... s/advanced

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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby raffy » Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:59 pm

Yriss wrote:i have these bracers, with crit rating, u can try with my profile http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... s/advanced

Cool! Thank you. It appears Blizzard actually exposes the Suffix by Id in the Profile API. This reduces my import code from comparing all possible permutations and finding the best fit, to just a one-liner :)

I played around with your reforging, trying to improve it (although it's already really good). I noticed you had two Stamina gems, so I tried removing them, but when I looked at the Catus reforge log, I realized there was no hope -- too much hit, even with the Stamina gems:(
Code: Select all
Constraints:
Hit                    2550 <= [  2585,  7296] <= 999999
Expertise              2550 <= [  1601,  6380] <= 999999


Latest Catus for 1:1:1 reforging with support for <Random Enchantment> stuff:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2989349/Catus4.rar
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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby Yriss » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:36 am

yes ... i switched to red gems instead of purple , even agi/Sta gems to keep good bonus because i have too much hit, i'll change them again when i'll change my weapon/chest
Thx

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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby kerplunk101 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:53 am

Hey, what do you guys think about maxdps.com's rankings of trinkets?

I am currently using the 522 Valor trinket and a 502 rentakkis.

According to maxdps, the 476 darkmoon trinket is ahead of the rentakkis?

I also have the 476 trinket upgraded to 484. According to the latest Sim C, Rentakkis(502) pulls ahead by like 2k dps.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

TLDR 522 Valor trinket + 484 Darkmoon vs 502 Rentakkis.

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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby RareBeast » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:03 pm

I'd be a bit concerned with :-

Rankings are based on the following priorities:
1) Faerie Fire (Feral) if no armor debuff on boss
2) Mangle to maintain debuff
3) Tiger's Fury if your energy is below 35
4) Berserk
5) Rip with 5 combo points to maintain debuff
6) Rake to maintain debuff
7) Savage Roar to maintain buff
8) Shred to get combo points


Just for starters -
* Mangle debuff does not exist anymore
* Savage Roar should be higher priority than Rip

It also worries me that with the exception of the Darkmoon Trinket, the entire list is in iLvl order which no other source has ever agreed with. The 502 Rune of Origin being so far down the list goes against every other bit of info I have seen on it.


I'd much rather use the info in this thread which has been done in Simcraft by someone who I am confident knows what they are doing :)

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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby aggixx » Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:11 pm

I don't think the priority list on maxdps is relevant at all, they just have a set of stat weights that generates the values for each trinket and for some reason their priority list is ancient. I would assume given reasonable stat weights it's probably somewhat accurate (not sure if the default ones are, didn't look) but there's a couple trinkets that are too abstract to simply slap a flat value onto and compare it to everything else, the main one being Rune.

Also another big thing is that there's going to be a pretty significant shift in the value of RPPM trinkets versus similar power ICD based trinkets depending on if you have high or low haste, although to be fair my numbers don't exactly account for that either.
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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby Dysheki » Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:16 pm

Looks more like a Cata priority list :?
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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby scorpio0920 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:54 pm

Rankings are based on the following priorities:
1) Faerie Fire (Feral) if no armor debuff on boss
2) Mangle to maintain debuff
3) Tiger's Fury if your energy is below 35
4) Berserk
5) Rip with 5 combo points to maintain debuff
6) Rake to maintain debuff
7) Savage Roar to maintain buff
8) Shred to get combo points


Too old, from cata.

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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby raffy » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:25 am

Preliminary results for 535 ilvl (pre-Lei Shen) + 535 trinkets:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/298 ... Heroic.png
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/298 ... Merged.png

I'm doing a bigger sim now with some more trinkets too.

Spoiler: show
Code: Select all
Head: [535] Lightning-Eye Hood
Neck: [535] Quadra-Head Brooch
Shoulder: [535] Spaulders of the Haunted Forest
Back: [535] Pinionfeather Greatcloak
Chest: [535] Raiment of the Haunted Forest
Wrist: [535] Bracers of the Midnight Comet
Hands: [535] Grips of the Haunted Forest
Waist: [535] Featherflight Belt
Legs: [535] Legguards of the Haunted Forest
Feet: [535] Spurs of the Storm Cavalry
Finger 1: [535] Sign of the Bloodied God
Finger 2: [535] Gore-Soaked Gear
Trinket 1: [535] Renataki's Soul Charm
Trinket 2: [535] Rune of Re-Origination
Main Hand: [535] Darkwood Spiritstaff
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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby Sorcerer » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:48 pm

Raffy, could you post some trinket uptime % based on 2 current best picks? I would love to verify uptimes to WoL numbers a bit.

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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby Photek » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:55 pm

Just found out about this excellent tool. Could it be possible to be used for any class? I'd like to use it as a monk but the class restriction errors is making it impossible. Thanks.

edit: I meant for the reforge thing for rune of re-origination

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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby raffy » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:32 am

Yeah, I can open the reforger for Monks (I also play a monk, but mainly for PvP.) I'll do this for the next update, although everything else will still be Druid stuff, but the reforger will work.

Here are some more trinket results:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/298 ... eroic2.png
- added VP trinket.
- added Uptime (Min/Avg/Max) for both trinkets for each pair
I still need to fix the Rune+Bloodlust reforging so it doesn't pick Haste when a proc is active.
I find #4 (Rune + VP trinket) kind of hilarious.
WTB 5-sigma Juju uptime.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/298 ... eVsDPS.png
Plots of Uptime vs DPS for each trinket. Red lines are 1:1:1 reforged (have a Rune) and Blue are max-mastery.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/298 ... -Histo.png
Histograms of DPS and Uptime for each trinket. The different modes in the Uptime plots correspond to # of procs (which is quantized.) For example, the bi-modality of the VP trinket histo implies that the fight length split between like N and N+1 procs.
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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby Sorcerer » Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:25 pm

I think I didnt see anyone posting how stat values change during RoRo proc / uptime.

This is to regards issue of geming and later reforging. Since it has been mentioned that agi value goes up when RoRo proc (2ndary aswell but to what degree?

1) should we, in order to match agility socket bonus in yellow, socket agi+mast or agi/haste & agi/crit.
2) should we ever match socket bonus if its not agility?
3) should we, to above question if it holds true to match non agi bonus, always socket agi/mast in yellow or agi/haste & agi/crit.
4) what do we do with blue socket if the socket bonus is not agi?

all 4 questions in regards purely to RoRo optimization.

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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby aggixx » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:26 pm

Working on answering that right now. Also switched most of the charts to a slightly different cleaner method as well as I'm regenerating a lot of the sim results with the most recent action list.
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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby Sorcerer » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:19 pm

Probably stupid question but somehow I didnt see such or answer to it.

Does mastery buff counts towards RoRo 1:1:1 ? Couse I see in catus it doesn't so probably temporary buffs like raid buffs/trinket procs are not including into the proc right?

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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby aggixx » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:22 pm

Everything counts towards Rune except for the mastery raid buff, so that includes procs, stat multipliers (eg bear form), etc.
Last edited by aggixx on Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby raffy » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:27 pm

Sorcerer wrote:Probably stupid question but somehow I didnt see such or answer to it.

Does mastery buff counts towards RoRo 1:1:1 ? Couse I see in catus it doesn't so probably temporary buffs like raid buffs/trinket procs are not including into the proc right?

What am I missing?
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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby aggixx » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:06 pm

Sorcerer wrote:I think I didnt see anyone posting how stat values change during RoRo proc / uptime.

This is to regards issue of geming and later reforging. Since it has been mentioned that agi value goes up when RoRo proc (2ndary aswell but to what degree?

1) should we, in order to match agility socket bonus in yellow, socket agi+mast or agi/haste & agi/crit.
2) should we ever match socket bonus if its not agility?
3) should we, to above question if it holds true to match non agi bonus, always socket agi/mast in yellow or agi/haste & agi/crit.
4) what do we do with blue socket if the socket bonus is not agi?

all 4 questions in regards purely to RoRo optimization.


The short answer is that you want to match any socket bonus, being respectful of your hit/exp caps of course.

The long answer is that I ran a manual calculation of the value of Crit, Haste, and Mastery with Rune, and this is what I got:
  • Agility: 7.59
  • WDps: 5.61
  • Crit/Haste/Mastery: 3.8499
  • Hit/Exp: 3.06
  • Strength: 2.97
  • AP: 2.75

So it turns out the secondary stat values outputted by running scale factors are not representative of how the stats are actually used at all for Rune. You may notice that secondaries are actually above half of agility, unfortunately that doesn't necessarily mean it's worth it to gem secondaries (as exciting as that may sound). I tried a full secondary stat gemmed profile (matching all socket bonuses) and it lost to the current profile by about 500 DPS (0.2%), which means it's definitely viable but I wouldn't exactly say it's a good idea.
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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby Stenhaldi » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:45 pm

I'm assuming that's with 535 Rune of Re-Origination. The lower uptime on the 522/528 versions would result in secondary stats being not quite as strong.

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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby aggixx » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:35 pm

Fair point. It may also be a gain at the 541/543/549 item levels.

Edit: After boosting the ilevel of Rune to 549 for both profiles, the secondary gemmed profile still did less DPS.
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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby backtrack » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:39 am

Sorry for the lame question , but i will shoot it . I have Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault , Renataki's Soul Charm and Bad Juju ( all normal aka. 522ilvl) . I need 10 secrets to get my meta gem so i will have it if not this week the next . Should i start reforging Mastery>Haste>Crit or to stay Mastery>Crit>Haste until i get meta .

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... i/advanced

Thanks in advance .

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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby aggixx » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:12 am

Definitely wait until you get the meta. Haste really only passes crit when you have Meta + 1 or 2 RPPM trinkets.
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Re: Talent & Trinket Analysis (w/ Stat Weights!)

Postby Sorcerer » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:32 am

Stenhaldi wrote:I'm assuming that's with 535 Rune of Re-Origination. The lower uptime on the 522/528 versions would result in secondary stats being not quite as strong.


aggixx wrote:After boosting the ilevel of Rune to 549 for both profiles, the secondary gemmed profile still did less DPS.


That really looks odd to me at first glance, the question would be how much less dps than 522 profile?
Kinda interesting thing but this is for a long time where I start to have doubts and probably need to look deeper into.

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