Register

Few more questions

Face-rippin fun.

Moderator: Forum Administrators

Posts: 4
Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 1:05 pm

Few more questions

Postby chiwhisox » Sat May 25, 2013 1:47 am

Hi,

Just a few more questions from a dude with a new cat alt. I'm using DroodFocus and it's quite helpful for tracking when to overwrite DoTs and such. And I trust the mod but...it seems to ask me to overwrite bleeds *a lot*. There will be situations where I'm about to rip, and I know that after using the rip (with or without TF) DF is going to tell me to overwrite the rip a few seconds later with the DoC proc I just got. It seems a little silly, but maybe there's no way around it.

I'm also having trouble getting decent Thrash uptime and keeping up the rest of my rotation. I'm only 481, and I've geared really quickly which means I'm stuck with some really egregiously bad pieces (a 450 helm with no meta socket, the Bloodseeker trinket that gives agility stacks on killing mobs, etc.) but I'm just wondering how much easier the rotation gets which better gear. It's also difficult for me to do everything perfectly on multi-target fights; Swipe not extending the Rip duration like Shred would makes things a lot harder. This almost seems like a stupid question since I'm sure gear will help a lot, with crit giving more CP and Haste helping with energy. But I just wanted to check.

Oh and lastly: people reference using Nature's Swiftness when DoC for the free proc. But I find having to swap out of form to use it kind of awkward. I try to make sure I don't energy cap when going in/out, but is there a trick to it other than? I'm usually just trying to use it when I'm about to rip and don't have a DoC. And I suppose I'll ask one more gear/DoC related question in this vein: I'm also having trouble saving the DoC proc for every finisher. 8 seconds isn't always enough time for me to get back to 5 CP. Is this a non-issue at higher gear levels?

Sorry for the rambling questions, would appreciate any insight. Thanks.

edit: gah, one last question I forgot: if you run into a situation where your rip is falling off and you're only at say, 1 combo point, is it better to throw up the weak rip with low CPs or wait for 5 CPs and lose rip uptime?

Honored
User avatar
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:18 pm

Re: Few more questions

Postby Elamari » Sat May 25, 2013 11:44 pm

Hi and welcome!

I don't use drood focus (yet) so I can't comment on it. But it just tracks when you get procs and buffs and if they are stronger than your current bleeds, because they snap shot your stats. So things like weapon enchants, trinkets, meta gems, potions, raid buffs etc...

Thrash is tricky to understand even for me. AFAIK it's best used on Omen of Clarity procs, however I have some discussion here that is saying you should use it when you can. Personally I've found during Berserk at high energy levels (approaching cap) I use Thrash to bleed off some energy. Not sure if this is a dps gain or loss, I've just found it a way to manage energy and stop it from capping.

Swipe extending Rip is an interesting thought. I think I like it :)

Generally speaking the rotation does get better with gear (mainly more crit = more CP) but also gets more unpredictable, as is the nature of crit e.g. critting at 4CP or reacting to a crit and changing your spell usage.

Not sure why you would be swapping form to use NS, it can be used in cat form. You don't have to save it just for Rips e.g. a FB when boss is > 25% but try not to let it go to waste. Also, because it requires 2 GCD's to activate, I sometimes activate NS before I need the heal, so when I do need it, it's only 1 GCD to get the heal off instead of two. However, don't forget that you've done this.

It can be difficult to time your PS with your spells, very short window. What I do, as I also read on the forums, is pool energy for a bit when at 5 CP, this plus SotF will give you some extra energy after the finisher to rebuilt your CP (Make sure you are using SotF, especially if you are also using DoC, it is by far the best talent for Ferals).

Rip uptime is important, but SR uptime is more important. It is hard to say in X situation you should do Y because there are so many variables - SR, cool downs, boss mechanics etc... I *think* its best to wait and get a 5 CP one off rather than a weaker one (but don't quote me), it's what I do.

Hope this helps and hope we get some more replies to this thread. Cheers,

~Elamari
Cricket? Nobody understands cricket. You have to know what a crumpet is to understand cricket.

File under Feral - http://fileunderferal.wordpress.com/

Honored
User avatar
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:35 pm

Re: Few more questions

Postby Vami » Sun May 26, 2013 2:50 am

chiwhisox wrote:Hi,

Just a few more questions from a dude with a new cat alt. I'm using DroodFocus and it's quite helpful for tracking when to overwrite DoTs and such. And I trust the mod but...it seems to ask me to overwrite bleeds *a lot*. There will be situations where I'm about to rip, and I know that after using the rip (with or without TF) DF is going to tell me to overwrite the rip a few seconds later with the DoC proc I just got. It seems a little silly, but maybe there's no way around it.

Sounds like a bug (? dunno, I don't use Droodfocus), it's often not worth it to overwrite a Rip if the one you'd get would only be a bit more powerful. Are you also getting a trinket proc or something same time or is it always suggesting to use a new Rip?

I'm also having trouble getting decent Thrash uptime and keeping up the rest of my rotation. I'm only 481, and I've geared really quickly which means I'm stuck with some really egregiously bad pieces (a 450 helm with no meta socket, the Bloodseeker trinket that gives agility stacks on killing mobs, etc.) but I'm just wondering how much easier the rotation gets which better gear. It's also difficult for me to do everything perfectly on multi-target fights; Swipe not extending the Rip duration like Shred would makes things a lot harder. This almost seems like a stupid question since I'm sure gear will help a lot, with crit giving more CP and Haste helping with energy. But I just wanted to check.

Yes, gear helps. Multi-target fights are not simple for ferals.

Oh and lastly: people reference using Nature's Swiftness when DoC for the free proc. But I find having to swap out of form to use it kind of awkward. I try to make sure I don't energy cap when going in/out, but is there a trick to it other than? I'm usually just trying to use it when I'm about to rip and don't have a DoC.

You can use it in cat form, however an ordinary macro will not work due to some bug we have (NS+HT should be castable instantly but in cat form they aren't). Try the following macro, you can spam it until you've gotten an NS+HT cast on yourself, but you won't switch form:

/console autounshift 0
/cast Nature's Swiftness
/cast Healing Touch
/console autounshift 1

I'm also having trouble saving the DoC proc for every finisher. 8 seconds isn't always enough time for me to get back to 5 CP. Is this a non-issue at higher gear levels?

You won't have DoC procs on every finisher, but playing feral does get easier with gear. Crits and haste help a lot.


edit: gah, one last question I forgot: if you run into a situation where your rip is falling off and you're only at say, 1 combo point, is it better to throw up the weak rip with low CPs or wait for 5 CPs and lose rip uptime?

Anything else than 5 CP Rip is a waste. Don't even think about using anything else than a 5 CP Rip. Ever. (Except when spamming Rip and then the setbonus procs and there you are overwriting a procced Rip with 1 CP useless shit Rip. Fuk.)

Honored
User avatar
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:18 pm

Re: Few more questions

Postby Elamari » Sun May 26, 2013 3:00 am

Vami wrote:/console autounshift 0
/cast Nature's Swiftness
/cast Healing Touch
/console autounshift 1


Oh I forgot that I have this macro. Good job pointing this out Vami :)
Cricket? Nobody understands cricket. You have to know what a crumpet is to understand cricket.

File under Feral - http://fileunderferal.wordpress.com/

Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: Few more questions

Postby timmydactal » Sun May 26, 2013 3:31 am

Hmm I don't want to say too much to cause debate but I would like to voice the opinion that you should never say never with regards to how many CPs you need to apply Rip. Trinket procs and other factors (mostly trinket procs) should have a greater impact on whether or not you can or should use less-than-5 CP rips.

At heroic gear levels at least, you shouldn't need to think twice about getting a 4cp rip off that's buffed by Rune (and/or other trinket effects), if the next GCD is the last before Rune expires (just as a very, very basic example).

Having some way to track and compare how potent your previous bleed(s) are to the potential replacement bleed(s) is a big part of the high-end feral rotation.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:15 am

Re: Few more questions

Postby raffy » Sun May 26, 2013 6:03 am

I don't use DroodFocus, but I use something very similar: InlineAura.

You can see my UI here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2989349/edgy.jpg

I basically watch 2 things:
1. My stack of procs
2. My inline aura buttons (HT, Rake, Rip, Thrash, SR)

My DoC charges are on my HT button (lower left "1")
My Thrash button glows if I have an Clearcasting proc
My Swipe button gets a border if my target has Thrash debuff
My Berserk timer replaces my TF timer when it is active

I don't have anything telling me how strong my DoTs are, but I can estimate it pretty well. I think it's much more important to maintain a steady rotation and maximize your DoC charges and learn the encounter well enough that you have everything planned out ahead of time.

I think having your debuff/buff timers on your buttons has significant advantages: glancing at my Rip button, I can see both the duration AND if I can cast it. It doesn't cause any clutter and it works well in PvP. I basically can't play without it (I've been using it since release) and I use it on all my characters (I also play Monk and Rogue).

Posts: 4
Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 1:05 pm

Re: Few more questions

Postby chiwhisox » Sun May 26, 2013 9:24 pm

Thanks for the responses all. I'm up to somewhere around 491 ilvl and the rotation is noticeably easier. AOE/cleave fights are still trickier, but it sounds like that's just the way it is. The NS/HT macro was very nice, and I'm glad I don't have to shift out anymore.

As for the drood focus and overwriting, I'm just going to trust the program. If it lights up green, I'll overwrite it. To answer someone above, yeah it doesn't happen randomly; it's always when a bleed is applied w/o a specific buff, then you get a DoC, TF, trinket, Dancing Steel, etc. It just surprises me, especially with Rip, that using 5 combo points to re-apply a rip you just put up is (allegedly) a dps gain in so many circumstances.

Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:21 am

Re: Few more questions

Postby Fortybones » Sun May 26, 2013 10:08 pm

(Except when spamming Rip and then the setbonus procs and there you are overwriting a procced Rip with 1 CP useless shit Rip. Fuk.)


Have definitely done this and it sucks.

Return to Kitty DPS

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], Google Feedfetcher and 7 guests