Register

Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Face-rippin fun.

Moderator: Forum Administrators

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:49 pm

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby aggixx » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:10 pm

Technically I don't think they're really supposed to be balanced around anything since single target patchwerk isn't really the only realm to consider. They vary a lot but I would say an average is something like 1.5-2%.

The 2p would actually be a 2% gain if it was passive instead of being a short duration buff tied to Omen, but even then it would still be incredibly boring. Not something typical of a final tier set bonus.
Image

Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:01 am

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby feralminded » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:11 pm

It almost feels like they're trying to buff our non-bleeds here ... a direction that would arguably help our target switching problems (in some scenarios) but would otherwise turn us into every other melee dps. At least that's what the thrust of these changes are telling me. That said I have trouble believing these are anywhere near final or that anyone who knows anything about ferals took much more than a cursory look at these ... otherwise wtf?
Nosis, GM of Neolutum, always recruiting

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1743
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:39 pm

Even if they are going to buff Mangle and Shred, it won't change our target swapping woes because they will still cost the same amount of energy, and still takes the same amount of time to get a real rotation going. Even in Cata when they had nerfed our bleeds into the ground and Shred was our highest damaging ability we had issues target swapping unless we had our Stampede buff up. With out stampede as a free damage burst + combo points we sucked at swapping.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 897
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:15 am

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby raffy » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:22 pm

I think we need to do what Tinder suggested http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... ?page=3#53 and be active on the Druid, Damage Dealing, and PTR forums.

aggixx wrote:The 2-piece is awful for sure, but the 4-piece, while likely incredibly awkward, may possibly decent, it's really hard to estimate without actually simulating it. It'll also take some action list adjustments for sure >.<
I was going to add support for T16 in Catus last night but after realizing the results would depend on having a proper action list, I figured I'd just wait until you fixed it :p

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1743
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:33 pm

Speaking of that. I have posted why I feel the new DoC mechanic is poor. For now we should ignore the damage part and just say why it is no longer compelling. Here is the thread. Please offer constructive feedback:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9282218639

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1743
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:43 pm

And as soon as I posted they shut the PTR forums down. Thankfully I saved the post, so I am going to put it here and at the druid forums until it can be moved back to the PTR forums.

Honored
User avatar
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:15 pm

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Cetlysm » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:32 pm

PTR forums are up now.
ImageImage

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:49 pm

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby aggixx » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:37 pm

aggixx wrote:Image
Image
Image


Updated my post with 4p values.
Image

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1743
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:40 pm

Cetlysm wrote:PTR forums are up now.

Awesome thanks. I have posted it back up (they deleted the whole forum).
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9280218700#1

Honored
User avatar
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:15 pm

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Cetlysm » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:44 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:
Cetlysm wrote:PTR forums are up now.

Awesome thanks. I have posted it back up (they deleted the whole forum).
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9280218700#1

Everyone should hit like, maybe it will help, pretty sure we all agree 5.4 DoC is an abortion.
ImageImage

Posts: 17
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 3:36 pm

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Mooninites » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:55 pm

Sibylle wrote:
I think the small, dedicated community we as ferals have become, has lost perspective to an extent. Look at the complexity of other specs. I have a priest who levels and sometimes raid-finder-s as shadow. There are two main DoTs to maintain (and a third that's used when 3 shadow orbs are available). Compared that to feral, we have Rake, Rip, and Savage Roar to maintain. Sounds like only 1 more DoT, however two of these require combo points - it's nothing like the whack-a-mole style DoT management of other classes at all.



People play feral for the complexity, I also have a shadow priest who is relatively close in iLevel to my feral. To compare to shadow is really unfair because shadow is such an easy spec, even when compared to other classes. But thats besides the point, its really an injustice to compare ferals difficult with another class because most of us play feral for the complexity do we not?

Revered
Posts: 449
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby ShmooDude » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:41 pm

Mooninites wrote:
Sibylle wrote:
I think the small, dedicated community we as ferals have become, has lost perspective to an extent. Look at the complexity of other specs. I have a priest who levels and sometimes raid-finder-s as shadow. There are two main DoTs to maintain (and a third that's used when 3 shadow orbs are available). Compared that to feral, we have Rake, Rip, and Savage Roar to maintain. Sounds like only 1 more DoT, however two of these require combo points - it's nothing like the whack-a-mole style DoT management of other classes at all.



People play feral for the complexity, I also have a shadow priest who is relatively close in iLevel to my feral. To compare to shadow is really unfair because shadow is such an easy spec, even when compared to other classes. But thats besides the point, its really an injustice to compare ferals difficult with another class because most of us play feral for the complexity do we not?


Many do, though not all. Personally I switched to feral in bc so I could both tank and DPS in one spec. I stayed with it because I like the self heals and movement speed. Complexity doesn't factor into for me. In fact assuming they balance it number wise, I like the change to DoC personally, however I understand many will not.

User avatar
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:18 pm

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Bethany » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:43 pm

ShmooDude wrote:Personally I switched to feral in bc so I could both tank and DPS in one spec. I stayed with it because I like the self heals and movement speed. Complexity doesn't factor into for me. In fact assuming they balance it number wise, I like the change to DoC personally, however I understand many will not.


I'm curious, while I don't actively play with DoC due to my raids average skill level - HotW is a much better/safer option, why you think the change is a positive one? Just trying to understand your opinion :)

Honored
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:33 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Grenache » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:47 am

I am like Bethany where I exclusively play HotW as my raid leader has come to rely on my Tranq and to be honest I was worried about executing the DoC rotation. I already easily beat our other melee and we 8/12N so not exactly pushing content. If the DoC gap had widened in 5.4 I was going to consider it but this looks unlikely now.

LIke Tinder said on the podcast, it was very clever of Blizzard to offer a simpler dps option with a raid cooldown as well as a 5% better dps option for the min maxxers.

User avatar
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:22 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Woem » Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:45 am

Quoted you on the eu forums. Things are a bit scattered this side and prob won't get anywhere near the same level of discussion as your side guys

Revered
User avatar
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:19 am

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Alpheus » Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:56 am

Woem wrote:Quoted you on the eu forums. Things are a bit scattered this side and prob won't get anywhere near the same level of discussion as your side guys


Yeh EU forums are forever alone and eternally ignored by everyone who's calling shots for class design :)
Image

Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:42 am

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Grondmaster » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:41 pm

HoTW Tranq heals for 61k (mainheal) 31k tick average on live and 58k (mainheal) 28k tick on ptr. So slight nerf but it seems not a major one.

Switched to spellpower weapon while casting tranq.

Honored
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:20 pm

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Sorcerer » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:53 pm

The way they design fights, it is rare when a healing CD is better than mitigation cd tbh. Main issue with current tranq.

How much total healing is new tranq in 25man with and without hotw? Havent played for few weeks now, need to come back from canarian's :)
Not to mention, that me in ER didnt almost ever need hotw tranq...

Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:11 pm

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Nýro » Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:19 pm

So, I'm on the PTR right now and even though I'm not spec'd into DoC I'm getting the buff. Imo this could "maybe" be 1 of 2 things its either bugged or it could possibly be a passive and Blizzard has not implemented a new talent yet? This would explain why they nerfed DoC so hard somewhat if it is just becoming a passive. That is my thoughts though. Also I did test the numbers, with the DoC buff up rip does do more damage even though not speced into it, I also went into balance it also got the buff, However Resto did not do wrath healing from damage unless speced into it.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 897
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:15 am

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby raffy » Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:59 pm

To be honest, after hearing that 5.4 would include a talent revamp and participating in a bunch of discussions, I was really expecting both DoC and NS to go baseline. I expected DoC would be reduced to like 15% damage or something, and be available to all specs, as a way of saying "if you can master this, go for it, but you don't need to" and instead we'd get a new level 90 talent, matching the hybrid theme of HotW and NV. Additionally, I expected NS to get reduced in power, maybe 2 min cd, but again, available to all specs because it's such an iconic Druid ability and it solves many issues related to shapeshifting and our caster toolkit.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:49 pm

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby aggixx » Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:59 pm

Probably a bug, but I wouldn't necessarily cross it being a new passive off the list of possibilities.

Also worth mentioning, the T16 tier set gear is available on PTR for testing, please download PTR and try it out so you can give feedback if you have the time to do so. All you have to do is fly to Niuzao Temple and buy the gear from the big tauren.

So far, the 2p is boring and weak as expected (the proc is called "Feral Fury") and the 4p is... good I guess? But really god damn hard to get used to.
Image

Honored
User avatar
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:15 pm

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Cetlysm » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:04 pm

aggixx wrote:Probably a bug, but I wouldn't necessarily cross it being a new passive off the list of possibilities.

Also worth mentioning, the T16 tier set gear is available on PTR for testing, please download PTR and try it out so you can give feedback if you have the time to do so. All you have to do is fly to Niuzao Temple and buy the gear from the big tauren.

So far, the 2p is boring and weak as expected (the proc is called "Feral Fury") and the 4p is... good I guess? But really god damn hard to get used to.

It feels so godamn awkward to try buff rip with TF and rune while at 5cp.
Can't tell whats better when SR is around 15ish seconds left.
Tried doing a FB while rune is active and then TF rip. (Makes me wish they would buff FB more this patch because this happens most of the time)
Then I tried waiting for rune to get as close as possible to expiring, refresh roar while it was at 8 sec or so, TF, rip instantly
ImageImage

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:49 pm

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby aggixx » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:26 pm

This is what I found to be the most DPS as far as handling any CP you have before you activate TF:

  • If you have 2 or less CP, just use TF and waste the CP. No big deal.
  • If you'll gain at least a couple seconds on your SR (3 was what I found was the most DPS), cast SR.
  • Otherwise Ferocious Bite.
Image

Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:41 pm

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Qualiti » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:46 am

Personally I dont mind the thought of having 5 combo points on TF cast, But I don't believe it is enough for a 4pc. I'm not too ecstatic about most of the changes / bonuses. I truly enjoy feral as it is now, and looking down the road it seems changes are coming no matter what.

Tiger's Fury generates 5 combo points, And your next finishing move ________

Fill the blank. Something along the lines of increasing it's damage, or you could even go as far as making it do something fun like applying another bleed or even depending on the finisher apply a version of the opposite finisher(toned down CP ofcourse).

Revered
User avatar
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:19 am

Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Alpheus » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:15 am

Qualiti wrote:Personally I dont mind the thought of having 5 combo points on TF cast, But I don't believe it is enough for a 4pc. I'm not too ecstatic about most of the changes / bonuses. I truly enjoy feral as it is now, and looking down the road it seems changes are coming no matter what.

Tiger's Fury generates 5 combo points, And your next finishing move ________

Fill the blank. Something along the lines of increasing it's damage, or you could even go as far as making it do something fun like applying another bleed or even depending on the finisher apply a version of the opposite finisher(toned down CP ofcourse).


More often than not the set bonuses are designed to counteract some badly-designed mechanic or a boss ability that cannot be normalized accross all classes. Ie. T15 4set in ToT to counteract the long ramp-up time of our AoE and reduce the post-AoE downtime on our main target (tortos, lei shen, heroic magaera). T14 4set had extended Rip which helped with target-swapping (Sha of Fear, Lei Shi, Guardians, Spirit Kings, Elegon, ...). The T13 2set in DS allowed to us to more effectively roll rips on two main targets and the 4set added on-demand burst.

I'm thinking there's either going to be something that will require bash/5CP maim or something along the way of tears of the sun Twins mechanic where another mob appears for 5-10sec and you have to get a Rip on it ASAP.


---

As far as future 4sets/trinkets/legendaries/whatnots go I'd rather see something which has some peculiar synergy with our rotation which, when optimally exploited, could bring along a slightly different playstyle with a higher dps range. Rune this tier and the 4set are really good examples of this. Sadly all the RPPM crap is making my dps wobble from 180k to 280k in the first 3 minutes which is quite annoying but that's a different matter. I'd like to see our 2/4sets behave more on a mechanical level instead of just pure dmg or pure resource, ie. Proc on finishers to allow one of your bleeds to carry over 25% of the old damage onto the new one when clipped; or every finisher gives you a new kind of combo point (unrelated to existing ones, think holy power) which you can consume for extra thrash dmg or savage roar without consuming your existing CPs.
Image

PreviousNext

Return to Kitty DPS

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Google Feedfetcher and 7 guests