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Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby aggixx » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:53 pm

I've made a thread for discussion of the T16 set bonuses here. Please use that thread to discuss the set bonuses, not the DoC one, as it will keep it more organized for the developers to peruse the information.

Again, I highly recommend downloading PTR and giving the set bonuses a shot if you have the spare time! Your feedback can help shape something we'll be using all next tier.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Taraan » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:32 pm

These set bonuses are pretty boring, especially considering it's for the last tier of the expansion... If they want to go with these sort of mechanics with them, some changes are gonna be needed. 4-set bonus should be interesting at least:

4p: Tiger's fury generates 5 combo points, increases your maximum energy by your current energy at time of casting Tiger's fury, increases the damage of your next finishing move by x%.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Alpheus » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:15 am

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Dysheki » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:39 am

Alpheus wrote:http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/statspve-talents-11-2-0-0-0-0-0-0.html Feral druid talent popularity

I'm not sure the reasoning for posting this, but honestly you can't take too much out of those percentages. I'm logged out right now with HotW even though I use DoC most of the time in PvE because I use HotW for PvP. The only thing I think it shows is how useless NV is now.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Alpheus » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:29 pm

Dysheki wrote:
Alpheus wrote:http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/statspve-talents-11-2-0-0-0-0-0-0.html Feral druid talent popularity

I'm not sure the reasoning for posting this, but honestly you can't take too much out of those percentages. I'm logged out right now with HotW even though I use DoC most of the time in PvE because I use HotW for PvP. The only thing I think it shows is how useless NV is now.


It's not going to be picture perfect, but it still shows that DoC isn't terribly so terribly complex for raiders (where DoC/HOTW difference actually matters) to use it. The high HOTW number is probably caused by the large amount of 10man ferals.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby RareBeast » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:40 pm

The big questions is how many people using DoC (because they saw it was the highest DPS) don't have the skills/knowledge to do it properly and would actually be doing better with HotW anyway.

I certainly don't think I have the skills/reflexes to make up for my 350ms latency here in Australia (or perhaps even if I was on a LAN with the server :oops: )

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby aggixx » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:16 am

Probably a pretty fair chunk of them, but you're not going to get better at it if you never use the talent.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby RareBeast » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:44 pm

aggixx wrote:Probably a pretty fair chunk of them, but you're not going to get better at it if you never use the talent.


Very true. I could probably cope with it if forced (if the DPS delta was greater) but at this stage i'll live by the Dirty Harry quote - "A mans gotta know his own limitations" :) Our healers do like having my tranq as a backup as well so I certainly don't feel I am letting the team down in any way :)

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Steakbomb » Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:40 pm

I run HotW on almost all fights at the moment and I know that certain fights it is a much needed CD. I sat H Meg last night as I do not need anything from it and I ended up having to come in because my tranq + being able to give our S Priest a tranq was the difference between a kill and a wipe.

I rarely run DoC currently unless it's a fight that we don't need it like Jin.

This is mainly because I am in a 10 man now where as I used to raid 25 and I ran DoC almost all the time for the increased DPS but unless you can perform DoC correctly, it is a DPS loss right now.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Cetlysm » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:50 pm

So when do we change strat from constructive feedback to angry mob bitch moaning like the warlocks did?
It worked for them.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby baver » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:41 pm

Im on EU so wont realy help to whine on our forum. so its up to you US!

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Arnathis » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:50 pm

From MMO-Champion

Talents

Dream of Cenarius now causes Healing Touch to cause your next Rip to deal 30% additional damage for Feral, up from 15%. Guardian perk tweaked as well, see tooltip

Set Bonuses

Item - Druid T16 Feral 2P Bonus Omen of Clarity increases damage of Shred, Mangle, and Ravage by 20% for 6 sec. 50% for 6 sec.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Dewgy » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:01 pm

I wonder why they only want us to buff our rip's with doc and not other dots. Seems the last thing they should be doing is trying to lower our damage by limiting what we can buff.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Cetlysm » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:34 pm


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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:41 pm

Bad news... its not all back.

The HT nerf remains and we still lose NS. This is still a DPS and functionally loss, just not nearly as bad as it was.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Cetlysm » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:48 pm

I'm sure I won't even see a difference on the 10% HT nerf in raids at least from personal experience its mostly overheals, it really needs the splash healing people suggested.
But how big is the loss of NS? I'm guessing it will just mostly affect the opening bleed applying and will force us to get a PS ASAP with roar or FB on the opener before trinkets expire.

they also changed
Predatory Swiftness no longer has a chance to make Cyclone instant, free, and castable in all forms.
does this mean we can now have longer PS?

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:56 pm

No it just means Ferals can't use Cyclone unless they go to caster and hard cast.

Unless you delay Rune by doing a trinket swap right before the pull it won't be up.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Moosie » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:28 pm

While it's nice to see them actually listening to us, without NS this is still, not only a dps loss, but it's probably going to make our ramp up time even longer then it is now.

Normally, I HT before a fight, do my normal stuff until 4-5 combo, NS and then apply a rip/rake. Since you don't have NS now, you will most likely 1) have to hard cast a HT and then apply a rip/rake 2) apply SR and then apply rip/rake on the next round of combos.

Either way, it just seems odd. I can understand why they are taking NS away, in pvp it's an extremely strong talent, coupled with PS, but the problem is not NS itself, more it been able to proc an instant cyclone. Just make it not effect Cyclone, hibernate or roots for ferals, seems like a simple solution, but even then it would most likely still be overused as the other 2 talents don't really come close to the healing that can be done with NS (maybe CW can?).

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:33 pm

They already took away instant cyclone from PS:
Predatory Swiftness no longer has a chance to make Cyclone instant, free, and castable in all forms.

It wasn't just Ferals making use of NS for PVP related CC. Boomkins used it too.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Moosie » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:34 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:They already took away instant cyclone from PS:
Predatory Swiftness no longer has a chance to make Cyclone instant, free, and castable in all forms.

It wasn't just Ferals making use of NS for PVP related CC. Boomkins used it too.


Curious to as why they haven't done something similar to NS then. (Sorry about mis-info, reading mmoc which is behind on patch notes atm, only just read official site for the latest)

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:36 pm

So ya our opening is getting disrupted. So we need to refocus feedback on the fact that DoC has been nerf'd because of PVP. We should be discussing the fact that despite them wanted to reduce the complication of DoC, by removing NS they just made it more difficult as well as less effective.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:38 pm

Moosie wrote:Curious to as why they haven't done something similar to NS then. (Sorry about mis-info, reading mmoc which is behind on patch notes atm, only just read official site for the latest)

Because the heal was strong as well. Instead of turning the whole talent into "Your Next HT is free and castable in forms...unless you are feral/guardian then you need a macro" they just kept the full power and gave it back to resto's. They all took it anyway.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Moosie » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:42 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:So ya our opening is getting disrupted. So we need to refocus feedback on the fact that DoC has been nerf'd because of PVP. We should be discussing the fact that despite them wanted to reduce the complication of DoC, by removing NS they just made it more difficult as well as less effective.


They must know that the skill replacing NS is extremely bad, it looks like a place holder skill imo. It's extremely bad if we get another debuff like we did on amber shaper where healing increased the amount of damage the debuff did, not only that it's annoying when you are sat in town, it's just randomly healing people, and if you run past someone that is fighting multiple mobs, and has not get tagged one, you just stole aggro. I would not be suprised at all if this skill is just flat out removed, it's an extremely poor excuse for a talent.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby raffy » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:06 pm

I believe the PS change to Cyclone is smart. PS+Cyclone causes all kinds of other balance issues and it will be nice again to chain a Cyclone (now that the CD is removed) to help peel an enemies offensive CD. I have been advocating for this change and I think overall, less instant CC is good for the game.

I think the FoN change is merited (since it's definitely op on live) but I'm pretty sure it's a dead talent again because the treants are just too derpy and unresponsive as a DPS cooldown.

I feel it would be helpful to push the discussion on the PTR forums towards allowing Cyclone/Roots/Hibernate/Rebirth to be castable in form. I don't mind casting, but I do dislike exiting form. It leaves us defense-less, unable to access the majority of our toolkit/glyph benefit, and costs a GCD (to return to form). Feral and Guardian shouldn't need to pay an extra GCD to CC -- no other class has this restriction.

Also on the topic of PvP, the Faerie Fire "nerf" is a bigger buff for us than it is for anyone else. We have no way to remove Faerie Fire (solo) but can apply it every 6 seconds for free. All this does is reward proper use of Faerie Fire, and prevent Boom/Resto from keeping us from stealth. I think many Druids (including myself) and Rogues have been advocating for this change.

I think Ysera's Gift is garbage, regardless of the actual numbers. We do not need TWO Leader of the Pack type effects. Leader of the Pack should work like Ysera's Gift: overheals heal the raid. And we should get NS back, either as a talent or baseline. NS+Cyclone isn't needed either.

DoC-ignorant people seem to like to say "oh NS isn't supposed to be a damage cooldown" and sure, with DoC, that's how it's being used some of the time, but who cares? Other than the opener, my NS is used to heal teammates and my raid. It's helpful to execute an on-demand Rebirth (especially as Guardian) -- it sucks when the person is out of range and the PS-proc duration doesn't last long enough. In T15+ gear, we generate enough PS procs during our normal rotation to make NS not required (although it is nice to guarantee DoC benefit on our opener and BitW phase).

Overall, I glad we got DoC restored, but I think we need more feedback on the PTR forum concerning our T16 bonuses, the importance/value of NS, and the interaction between casted CC and forms. We shouldn't need to pay 2 GCDs for what every other class/spec spends 1.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:07 pm

We are back to having our 6 second CC be really 4 seconds because of the 2 GCD loss. I agree it should be castable in forms, or it should be bumped to 8 seconds. Since they won't do 8 seconds on an undispellable CC I think we know what to ask for.

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