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Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby raffy » Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:24 pm

(4) Tiger's Fury generates 5 combo points.

What are your thoughts about this rewording?
(4) Tiger's Fury causes your next finisher to be full strength and consume 0 combo points.

This allows us to maintain our current rotation (without strange finisher reordering), but still get the original benefit of the talent -- 5pt finisher after using TF.

Additionally, this would let us spend a 5pt finisher on an enemy that isn't our combo point target, so we could temporarily change targets and FB or Rip; and it would let us refresh SR mid-rotation if it falls off and TF is available.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby baver » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:58 am

i think that would be realy awsome, dont like this 5combopoint with TF for one bit

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Dysheki » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:37 am

raffy wrote:What are your thoughts about this rewording?
(4) Tiger's Fury causes your next finisher to be full strength and consume 0 combo points.

This allows us to maintain our current rotation (without strange finisher reordering), but still get the original benefit of the talent -- 5pt finisher after using TF.

I love it, though at first glance it seems a bit powerful.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:11 pm

It sounds really cool. Might be scary in pvp though. I approve.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Sibylle » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:42 pm

*drools* I hope they'll keep this!
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:48 pm

I think it's really to early to tell about these trinkets yet. As they are clearly in a rather unfinished state I wouldn't be shocked to see some changes. The fact that the DPS trinket that lowers cooldowns lowers:
Barkskin, SI, Ursoc's Might, and TF
tells me they don't have this all ready for prime time yet.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby aggixx » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:20 pm

Where did you find that? I think it would actually be pretty awesome if it lowered the CD of our defensives too. I don't expect the trinket to actually be any good though. Edit: Here it is: http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/145961-readiness

One interesting thing of note is that, while I don't expect the multistrike trinket to work on attacks that deal damage over time, it would be pretty sick if it did. 1/3rd of the DoTs full damage dealt instantly means we could be seeing 1 million damage or higher multistrikes on our bleed applications. It also means that it would make Rake as a filler waaay stronger than it is right now (and it's already pretty strong).
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby ShmooDude » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:21 am

The TF reduction stacks well with our set bonus. If they add berserk it could end up pretty strong (and would keep TF lined up with berserk). Beyond that, I don't see why they're giving might of ursoc to all specs, the rest makes sense based on what I'm seeing for other classes. However if they stick with the 6 in the tooltip we'd get two more on top of what's there now.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Oceansalt » Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:12 am

Talents
Dream of Cenarius no longer increases Rip damage for Feral Druids, instead causes your next two melee abilities to deal 25% additional damage. Now gives Guardian Druid Mangle (Bear) critical strikes a 45% chance to make your next Healing Touch or Rebirth instant, free, and castable in all forms, up from 30%.


Source: http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/3292-Patch-5-4-PTR-Build-17124

So .. what exactly does that mean?

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Alpheus » Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:31 am

Oceansalt wrote:
Talents
Dream of Cenarius no longer increases Rip damage for Feral Druids, instead causes your next two melee abilities to deal 25% additional damage. Now gives Guardian Druid Mangle (Bear) critical strikes a 45% chance to make your next Healing Touch or Rebirth instant, free, and castable in all forms, up from 30%.


Source: http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/3292-Patch-5-4-PTR-Build-17124

So .. what exactly does that mean?


It means they've reverted DoC to its live original but slightly increased the complexity of playing feral by removing nature's swiftness. This ensures that feral druids get the best bang for their buck as far as the challenging rotation goes. Because you know, one should not dominate the mid-low DPS range by just pressing 2 buttons.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby raffy » Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:34 am

I've been simming various interpretations of the Multistrike trinket, and it's pretty shitty single target, at least when paired with the Rune. For my own gear, just swapping Juju for Multistrike, I get a ~11k? DPS loss even if I let the proc crit.
Name Count Hit Crit Crit% Overall DPS
Multistrike 64127 25212 50143 46.20% [ 4.49%] 10449
Lightning Strike 26340 50725 101754 46.72% [ 3.74%] 8713

After looking at some Catus combat logs, it appears that the meta-gem proc might be overwriting the "last damage done", so I need to see if I can fix this. Ultimately, seeing it function in-game will clear up how it actually works.

It does look like both Multistrike and Cleave proc off dots. Although they both come on trinkets without passive agility or agility through procs, which doesn't favor the snapshot nature of our bleeds, especially the Rune.

I kinda like the Reverse-Renataki proc, but I'm not sure what type of abilities consume the proc (whites? faerie fire?)
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Alpheus » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:25 am

raffy wrote:I've been simming various interpretations of the Multistrike trinket, and it's pretty shitty single target, at least when paired with the Rune. For my own gear, just swapping Juju for Multistrike, I get a ~11k? DPS loss even if I let the proc crit.
Name Count Hit Crit Crit% Overall DPS
Multistrike 64127 25212 50143 46.20% [ 4.49%] 10449
Lightning Strike 26340 50725 101754 46.72% [ 3.74%] 8713

After looking at some Catus combat logs, it appears that the meta-gem proc might be overwriting the "last damage done", so I need to see if I can fix this. Ultimately, seeing it function in-game will clear up how it actually works.

It does look like both Multistrike and Cleave proc off dots. Although they both come on trinkets without passive agility or agility through procs, which doesn't favor the snapshot nature of our bleeds, especially the Rune.

I kinda like the Reverse-Renataki proc, but I'm not sure what type of abilities consume the proc (whites? faerie fire?)


Keep in mind that it's a double-edged sword. If it procs off whites then its value would most likely diminish during bloodlust since it would be harder to get a max-proc rip off (ie. with Renataki you can delay the rip to get a bigger one up, but if this one procced on pull, you would always get less and less agi on your rip, depending on your haste vs. waiting time.)
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Paloro » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:41 am

Alpheus wrote:Keep in mind that it's a double-edged sword. If it procs off whites then its value would most likely diminish during bloodlust since it would be harder to get a max-proc rip off (ie. with Renataki you can delay the rip to get a bigger one up, but if this one procced on pull, you would always get less and less agi on your rip, depending on your haste vs. waiting time.)


Perhaps that is what the 4p is for, so that you can get a maximized use from that particular proc? I still don't like the idea though, especially since our swing timer is so low.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Stenhaldi » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:03 am

If autoattacks consume the proc, it would probably be worth turning off the autoattack for at least a portion of the proc. This sounds like the sort of gameplay Blizzard wouldn't want to encourage, so I'd suspect that whether or not it counts autoattacks now, its final version won't.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Paloro » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:36 am

At least they are offering up some trinkets that aren't loaded with Hit or Expertise.

I'll also be quite perturbed if Berserk doesn't make it to the "Readiness" list.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby aggixx » Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:37 pm

The reverse stacking trinket won't stay how it is, it's just impossible to balance. If it procs off of autos then it would awful for some specs and godly for some others, and if it doesn't it would potentially be even more imbalanced.

I assume they'll have to make it a RPPM-based chance on attack (including whites) to reduce the stack so that it would decrease at the same rate for everyone but still with a nice RNG element to it. They would have to make this type of RPPM not scale with haste of course. As it stands the proc scales inversely with haste which means if they do their job balancing the current incarnation it will be a pile of a shit in BiS no matter what.

raffy wrote:It does look like both Multistrike and Cleave proc off dots. Although they both come on trinkets without passive agility or agility through procs, which doesn't favor the snapshot nature of our bleeds, especially the Rune.

On application or on a tick-by-tick basis? And how did you determine that?
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby raffy » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:36 pm

aggixx wrote:On application or on a tick-by-tick basis? And how did you determine that?

I was just going by what wowdb had listed under triggers:
http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/146059-multistrike

I implemented it as (% proc chance) on those triggers, doing 1/3 of the damage of the last recorded damage as yellow damage (allowing it to miss, but also allowing it to crit, using melee crit chance) and not allowing it to trigger further procs.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby aggixx » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:48 pm

Ah, so it is almost definitely on a tick-by-tick basis.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Alpheus » Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:18 am

aggixx wrote:Ah, so it is almost definitely on a tick-by-tick basis.


So if one would thrash/rake + one rip several off-targets it would allow me to unload sick procs on my main target? (Think Tortos, Magaera, Horridon). Maybe it's not bad afteral- oh it has passive haste >:(
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby aggixx » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:58 pm

I suspect each tick on each mob has an individual chance to proc damage only to themself. Chance on each tick of each mob to deal AoE tick damage is probably what the Cleave trinket does, hence why the initial proc chance was put so low: because it has nonlinear scaling potential.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Dysheki » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:41 am

I'm not sure I necessarily like the trinkets and the way they're presented right now. Depending on how it works out you could have many different trinkets being the best for many different fights. One trinket will be best for cleaving/AoE, one trinket will be best for overall single target damage, one trinket could be best for bursty damage situations (either when things need to die quick or you have defensive cooldowns to use often), etc.

It just seems really awkward to have them all in one tier. Usually someone wants trinket A more than trinket B and sometimes trinket B would be more useful for someone else. Etc. But now it may work out that everyone will want every trinket for different situations.

Side note: I understand this is early, but this shows how incredibly little they care about feral when they don't even have Berserk attached to the trinket yet (coupled with the DoC debacle) - you would think that would be automatic since they're attaching it to every other class' major CD

And the CD trinket looks like it could be very silly for PvP. Even if they lower the agility proc (which I'm sure they will). This could be fixed if the percentage were based on item level. We'll see how they want to deal with it.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Sibylle » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:05 am

This. The first thing I thought when I looked at the list of trinkets was whether I'd have to snatch up most of them in order to do optimal damage next tier? Not great.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Dysheki » Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:00 pm

Dysheki wrote:Side note: I understand this is early, but this shows how incredibly little they care about feral when they don't even have Berserk attached to the trinket yet (coupled with the DoC debacle) - you would think that would be automatic since they're attaching it to every other class' major CD


I would like to apologize for this grumpy statement from this morning. I was forced to stand outside this morning for a half an hour because the person that normally unlocks my building at work is on vacation and wasn't opened in time. So I was sipping my coffee outside in a dreary environment (rained last night, thankfully not this morning). I don't want to say they "don't care" about feral, but I'll instead reply with they don't truly understand feral as it is played today from a PvE standpoint.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Bethany » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:08 pm

Blizzard seem to like their cleave procs at the moment if the legendary proc stays as is...

http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/146194-flurry-of-xuen

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