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Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:02 pm

raffy wrote:I'll do a trinket table tonight with Soul Charm and Juju + all the different Runes. I'm in a similar boat, 0/5 for Heroic Rune :( That bastard Tinderhoof got TF Rune on second kill!

Ya I got super lucky.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby timmydactal » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:46 am

Has anybody been having difficulty with Catus lately? Just got a new weap (HTF random staff) and want to do my reforges/gems with Catus, but whenever I run it it gets stuck at "Downloading latest gear".

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:23 am

Stuck? or slow? What version: the beta or official release?

There is a lot to download (250+ items added in latest update) and it currently has to do it sequentially due to Blizzard API dependance (soon will change.)

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby timmydactal » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:45 am

I guess you could say it is very, very slow. I unfortunately won't be leaving the computer on overnight, but I can probably have it load sometime tomorrow.

I'm using the release, from the first post.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:05 am

Hum, when I say slow, I mean like maybe a few minutes max. I can download the full data required rather quickly if I clear my own cache.

If you use the beta, I believe I include a Cache, so no/minimal download is required.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Alpheus » Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:14 am

raffy wrote:I've mostly been playing with T16 configurations, but here is a T15 one that's decent and can absorb 4 stacks:
Hit: 2651, Expertise: 2556, Mastery: 11941, Haste: 4019, Crit: 11366
Spoiler: show
96581 +8 >hc :95346 :76697 # Head: [543] Headpiece of the Haunted Forest
96815 +8 >hc :76697 # Neck: [549] Quadra-Head Brooch
96583 +8 >he :76671 :76700 "Greater Tiger Claw Inscription" # Shoulder: [543] Spaulders of the Haunted Forest
98148 +8 >te :76659 "Superior Critical Strike" # Back: [608] Tigerfang Wrap
95033 +8 >tm :76659 :76671 :76671 "Glorious Stats" # Chest: [549] Chestguard of Coruscating Blades
96912 /339 +8 >mc :76700 "Greater Agility" # Wrist: [549] Bracers of the Midnight Comet
96580 +8 >em :76659 "Synapse Springs" "Superior Mastery" # Hands: [543] Grips of the Haunted Forest
94998 +8 :76700 :76700 :76700 Socket # Waist: [549] Strap of Murderous Strikes
96582 +8 >tc :76700 :76643 "Primal Leg Reinforcements" # Legs: [543] Legguards of the Haunted Forest
96903 +8 >ce :76697 "Blurred Speed" # Feet: [549] Spurs of the Storm Cavalry
95021 +8 >tc :76643 # Finger 1: [549] Ra-den's Swift Seal
96740 +8 >tc # Finger 2: [549] Sign of the Bloodied God
96864 +8 # Trinket 1: [549] Talisman of Bloodlust
96918 +8 # Trinket 2: [549] Rune of Re-Origination
96978 +8 :76700 :76700 Socket "Dancing Steel" # Main Hand: [549] Darkwood Spiritstaff

Mostly, I was just surprised that this was viable. But we can't have AoC+Rune+Talisman, and Talisman requires Rune, and AoC is awesome, so it's a dead end.


Yeh keep in mind it is also a SPECIFIC item setup, not only reforges, you do actually need these specific items to get haste so low. I'm using the VP belt still and the Horridon staff and it's very difficult to adjust to minor changes with itemization. Anyway, lets see what AoC brings; with the amount of CPs + energy from haste we'll have next tier I don't even think bloodlust will be that viable because of energy capping.
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Cainbo » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:10 am

timmydactal wrote:Has anybody been having difficulty with Catus lately? Just got a new weap (HTF random staff) and want to do my reforges/gems with Catus, but whenever I run it it gets stuck at "Downloading latest gear".



Zeph has been flawless for me, until last night. I've tried using the latest release on both my Mac and PC, and both get stuck at "Importing from Armory". After 10 minutes, I gave up. I'm going to let it run for a bit longer today and see if it works. Previously, the import only took seconds.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:15 am

Hum, maybe Blizzard API was having issues? Or wowhead? I'm still dependant on multiple sources for proper item information. I fail silently for a lot of things because a single load item request might invoke like 8+ HTTP requests. Nothing in Catus or Zephyrus should take very long, no import should take more than a few seconds. Periodically, they do need to download a few things on launch, but waiting 10mins for an import isn't normal.

If you're "Cainbo Eldre'Thalas" you import fine for me right now, starting from an empty cache.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:18 am

Latest trinket results for T15 BiS:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/298 ... Table6.png

Todo:
- I intend to have a Charm/Juju+Rune-variant table and a T16 Normal table soon.
- I need to verify what damage sources don't trigger for Multistrike and Cleave.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Kihrawr » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:03 am

What about 543 Rune? Just curious if that looks as good as the 549. :)

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby ShmooDude » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:55 pm

Kihrawr wrote:What about 543 Rune? Just curious if that looks as good as the 549. :)


And the 530/536 for those of us w/o any heroic (only mentioning it cause you said you were gonna do it tonight but I think you did H TF vs new normal instead which is fine).

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:11 pm

raffy wrote:Hum, maybe Blizzard API was having issues? Or wowhead? I'm still dependant on multiple sources for proper item information. I fail silently for a lot of things because a single load item request might invoke like 8+ HTTP requests. Nothing in Catus or Zephyrus should take very long, no import should take more than a few seconds. Periodically, they do need to download a few things on launch, but waiting 10mins for an import isn't normal.

If you're "Cainbo Eldre'Thalas" you import fine for me right now, starting from an empty cache.

You should try again today. Last night WowHead was having a lot of issues with it's uptime.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby timmydactal » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:28 pm

Seems to be working fine now - how do you download the beta? Or at least a version where most of the data/info is local. I typically run Catus once or twice a week, mainly depending on if I get any gear upgrades or not, but usually once a week or so it does take awhile to start up due to needing to download stuff, but if there was a way to skip that, I'm all ears.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby aggixx » Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:01 pm

raffy wrote:Hum, maybe Blizzard API was having issues? Or wowhead?

Blizzard servers along with the Armory API was pretty messed up 2 nights ago, might be related.
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:10 pm

This link always works for the latest beta:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/298 ... stBeta.zip

Here is a Juju/Charm for 5.4 PTR with various upgraded Runes:
Image
(it's stable but needs more sims, I'm on a plane atm and don't want to kill my battery)

My API now supports batch requests, which will drastically reduce Catus/Zephyrus downloading at start once everything is switched over:
http://raffy.antistupid.com/wow/batch.p ... ,19019,404
Only items that have been cached (and match the latest version number) can be batch'd, so if you need to load 100 items, you should batch those ids as one request, and maybe it responds with 90 cached items and an "uncached" list with the remaining 10 item ids. You'll then need to request those 10 items individually. Pulling those 100 items again will respond with all 100 cached items. Most requests will only have to hit my API once.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:04 pm

Trinket Pairs for T15 BiS Gear using T15 Bonuses (White) and T16 Bonuses (Teal)
Image
I fixed a bug with Ticking Ebon Detonator which makes it closer Soul Charm in performance.

Soul Charm is just way to good for us at 10sec duration. I'm disappointed in AoC+Rune (feels like it should be more of a gap), but things may change at higher item level. I kept the gear the same (and just swapped the bonuses) so I could rank them together.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby ShmooDude » Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:40 pm

raffy wrote:Trinket Pairs for T15 BiS Gear using T15 Bonuses (White) and T16 Bonuses (Teal)
<snip>
I fixed a bug with Ticking Ebon Detonator which makes it closer Soul Charm in performance.

Soul Charm is just way to good for us at 10sec duration. I'm disappointed in AoC+Rune (feels like it should be more of a gap), but things may change at higher item level. I kept the gear the same (and just swapped the bonuses) so I could rank them together.


What I'm getting out of this is that AoC, Renataki's, Haromm's and TED are all roughly equal (less than 1k DPS spread between them, that's why the changing of the set bonus changes the order so much).

Any idea why these rankings vary so much from: http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1086 ... sults.html

Namely AoC seems to be HUGELY different. Haromm's seems to be worse in simc too.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Stenhaldi » Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:57 pm

As a quick note, doubly-upgraded heroic (574) or heroic warforged (580) AoC pushes 3-minute cooldowns like berserk down to the point (2:02 and 2:00 respectively) where they synchronize reasonably well with the AoC proc itself.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby aggixx » Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:11 pm

Yeah, we still have to do some number reconciliation.
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Alpheus » Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:23 pm

raffy wrote:Trinket Pairs for T15 BiS Gear using T15 Bonuses (White) and T16 Bonuses (Teal)
(image)

I fixed a bug with Ticking Ebon Detonator which makes it closer Soul Charm in performance.

Soul Charm is just way to good for us at 10sec duration. I'm disappointed in AoC+Rune (feels like it should be more of a gap), but things may change at higher item level. I kept the gear the same (and just swapped the bonuses) so I could rank them together.


is there enough gear on the PTR (wrists, belts, rings) to make a full 553-560 setup to re-check the whether it changes any of the trinkets (I got high hopes for a synced AoC + SoR combo, the cleave trinket).

Also, fresh numbers from Flex/normal bosses, the legendary cloak proc does about double the damage from the meta gem (so about 6.5-7.5% total damage) on a single target and went as high as 30% on trash AoE and cache/chest/boxes boss.
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:52 pm

553 T16 with a few trinkets:
Image
Edit: fixed cloak enchant, added another trinket

[580] AoC + Rune has a nice gap.

Gear: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/298 ... 3_Gear.png
Spoiler: show
-99182 >ce :95346 :76692 # Head: [553] Headpiece of the Shattered Vale
-103749 >mh # Neck: [553] Immerseus' Crystalline Eye
-103913 >me :76658 :76666 "Greater Tiger Claw Inscription" # Shoulder: [553] Shoulderguards of the Righteous Stand
-102248 +8 >me :76692 "Swordguard Embroidery" # Back: [608] Fen-Yu, Fury of Xuen
-99180 >mh :76692 :76692 :76692 "Glorious Stats" # Chest: [553] Raiment of the Shattered Vale
-103910 >me "Greater Agility" # Wrist: [553] Bomber's Blackened Wristwatch
-99181 >ch :76692 :76692 "Synapse Springs" "Greater Haste" # Hands: [553] Grips of the Shattered Vale
-103928 >ch :76692 :76658 :76692 Socket # Waist: [553] Cord of Black Dreams
-99183 >ch :76666 :76666 "Shadowleather Leg Armor" # Legs: [553] Legguards of the Shattered Vale
-103779 >me :76680 "Blurred Speed" # Feet: [553] Pandaren Roofsprinters
-103843 >mt :76692 # Finger 1: [553] Ring of Restless Energy
-103844 >th :76692 # Finger 2: [553] Kil'ruk's Band of Ascendancy
-103974 >ce :76692 "Dancing Steel" # Main Hand: [553] Kor'kron Spire of Supremacy
Last edited by raffy on Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby baver » Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:54 pm

Would you mind see how good trinkets would be with 550-555itemlevel gear with old setbonus? dont think to meny will be able to get 4set the first week and i dont think trade 2set for 4set is worth it right?

im realy confused what items to take first normalmode week befor starting hardmode :/

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:18 pm

There's still a lot of testing to do. The white rows in this chart (from above) should correspond to the first week or so of raiding.

The way it looks now, if you don't use loot council and instead use some kind of point system for loot distribution, you could skip all trinket upgrades and use Soul Charm and Rune until you get to heroic progression.

Haromm's is interesting because it works for all playstyles and scales with everything. I don't know many of the PTR fights yet, so I don't know where the Cleave trinket may be of use. Possibly Cleave+Multistrike w/Mastery-reforge is good. Probably don't want to break 4pT15 until you have 2 pieces and a pretty big ilvl gap. As PTR gets closer, it will be interesting to see if the Flex gear is a option for people in Heroic ToT gear.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Alpheus » Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:36 pm

raffy wrote:There's still a lot of testing to do. The white rows in this chart (from above) should correspond to the first week or so of raiding.

The way it looks now, if you don't use loot council and instead use some kind of point system for loot distribution, you could skip all trinket upgrades and use Soul Charm and Rune until you get to heroic progression.

Haromm's is interesting because it works for all playstyles and scales with everything. I don't know many of the PTR fights yet, so I don't know where the Cleave trinket may be of use. Possibly Cleave+Multistrike w/Mastery-reforge is good. Probably don't want to break 4pT15 until you have 2 pieces and a pretty big ilvl gap. As PTR gets closer, it will be interesting to see if the Flex gear is a option for people in Heroic ToT gear.


It's interesting that Multistrike stats are RPPM and Cleave's stats are ICD. Was thinking of some synergy with the 575+ AoC to sync with Cleave's ICD and perhaps go all-out on those two timings to apply strong bleeds. From what I saw how the legendary cloak works, it's very strong even single-target. If the Cleave trinket is anything similar then I will definitely pick it up and look for a viable setup for it. Free AoE damage in the form of Cleave + Cloak + AoC'd TF along with strong synced procs every minute sounds VERY tempting.

I'm more worried about the first couple pickups of gear in the first 2 weeks. Our current setup is so heavily optimized on hit/exp and secondary stats along with the strong T15 set bonuses that replacing any item except for bracers and neck are going to be a nightmare to justify.
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Stenhaldi » Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:49 pm

The cleave proc has no single-target value (it doesn't hit the target it triggered on). Legendary cloak proc is about 2% single-target damage (edit: might be more now).
Last edited by Stenhaldi on Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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