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Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Face-rippin fun.
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:01 am

@Yriss
Armory is currently not working with any of the new 5.4 gear.
eg. I have the cloak but it doesn't show up on my armory:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... dgy/simple
Yriss wrote:Legendary on live server:
1855 agi
2902 stam
991 haste/crit/masteryy

When you select the cloak manually in Catus, it is 600 ilvl by default, so you need to upgrade it to 608, using the upgrade menu:
Image
(possibly I can make this the default in the next release)
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Yriss » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:45 am

My bad ... i thought it was v17, but i launched v13 ... of course it didn't work :(

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby CóladaEU » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:26 am

Might be a stupid question, but do I need to select it to use yellow gems as primary? Cause when I do that, it puts my mastery crit, and haste all over 8k and changes all my gems to like these -


Head/Gem#2: Deft Vermilion Onyx => Smooth Sun's Radiance
Shoulder/Gem#1: Delicate Primordial Ruby => Deft Vermilion Onyx
Shoulder/Gem#2: Deft Vermilion Onyx => Quick Sun's Radiance
Back/Gem#1: None => Deadly Vermilion Onyx
Chest/Gem#1: Delicate Primordial Ruby => Deadly Vermilion Onyx
Chest/Gem#2: Deadly Vermilion Onyx => Quick Sun's Radiance
Chest/Gem#3: Glinting Imperial Amethyst => Sensei's Wild Jade
Hands/Gem#1: Delicate Primordial Ruby => Deadly Vermilion Onyx
Waist/Gem#1: Delicate Primordial Ruby => Deft Vermilion Onyx
Waist/Gem#2: Deft Vermilion Onyx => Quick Sun's Radiance
Waist/Gem#3: Delicate Primordial Ruby => Quick Sun's Radiance
Legs/Gem#1: Deft Vermilion Onyx => Quick Sun's Radiance
Legs/Gem#2: Glinting Imperial Amethyst => Lightning Wild Jade
Feet/Gem#1: Deadly Vermilion Onyx => Quick Sun's Radiance
Main Hand/Gem#1: Glinting Imperial Amethyst => Sensei's Wild Jade
Main Hand/Gem#2: Delicate Primordial Ruby => Fractured Sun's Radiance

But that doesn't seem optimal to me? So shall I just leave it unchecked and rather going with 8536/8534/8535 just keep with the 7576/7575/7574?

Here's my armory link - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... a/advanced

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:31 pm

[x] Use Secondaries was added as an experiment to see if a different gemming option was viable. There are certain combinations of gear, trinkets, talents, and settings that make this a DPS gain, but I don't know of any specific rule of thumb. Aggixx experimented with this last patch, and even used this style of reforging near the end of the tier, as it works well if you occasionally tank as Guardian.

Additionally (this doesn't apply to your reforge specifically), I would recommend changing the default 1:1:1 search Range to 200, and keeping [x] Allow Stamina unchecked unless you're way over Hit cap.

What you could do: reforge for primaries and then setup the remainder of the simulator settings: talents, buffs, debuffs, temp effects (that match your raid setup), combat prep, and then choose Standard Encounters: Reset to Defaults. Under "Simulator: Distribution", hit "Generate Distribution".

While that is simulating, scroll up to the reforger, change the reforge to use secondaries, hit "Reforge", scroll back down to "Simulator: Distribution", and hit "Generate Distribution" again.

Now you have two simulations going, you could name each one, "Primaries" or "Secondaries", or use the automatic name menu to pick a simulation name for you. Once they're finished, you'll know the answer, at least for the standard Patchwerk encounter. You could retry this for different encounter setups, or different trinkets, or different buffs, or different talents, ... as you can see there is a lot of permutations!

Ultimately, this is the intended use-case for Catus: testing simple theories to figure out what's best and getting quick, accurate results. I'm trying to design the interface such that most of the "X or Y" options exist as simple interface controls. There is a panel in Catus specifically designed for this functionality, called "Simulator: A vs B", but I have it disabled right now because it's not finished. Here is Primary vs Secondary for my own gear, with Primaries about 2K dps ahead:
Image

Edit: looks like Armory import is working, yay
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Wellwow » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:57 pm

Now that the armory is working, Catus v17 is giving me an error when importing myself.

"Warmsun Ring cannot be reforged as Haste > Critical Strike"

And yet I've done it! :)
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/i ... u/advanced

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Cetlysm » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:20 pm

Also, for the Timeless randomized items, some of the options for secondary stats like 'of the Critical Strike' are missing, like 'of the Zephyr' which is haste + mastery.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:06 pm

Oh poop, I had to take a guess at the suffixes for the 5.4 gear w/o sockets. I found out they used the 5.3 suffixes, but then somehow I copy/pasted the 5.2 suffixes by mistake. I can fix this remotely and it will apply to your Catus within the hour automatically (or if you're antsy, you can delete the directory "Catus/Cache/raffy.antistupid.com" and restart Catus to force a fix immediately.) When the fix takes place, the startup process will need to redownload a bunch of gear at launch, but it should be relatively quick.
Last edited by raffy on Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Wellwow » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:11 pm

And the error is gone. Thanks again for the app and the quick turnarounds!

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby cg1351 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:38 pm

I was 700 over exp cap and it still reccomended reforging mastery to crit when i could use expertise to reforge to crit and still have mastery highest?

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:44 pm

cg1351 wrote:I was 700 over exp cap and it still reccomended reforging mastery to crit when i could use expertise to reforge to crit and still have mastery highest?

Can you link me an armory? The search is exhaustive so it is very unlikely that it is missing a better solution unless the settings are preventing it from being found.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... D/advanced
Your minimum possible expertise is 2940 regardless of what you do.
Left: Hit: 2679, Expertise: 3060, Mastery: 7429, Haste: 7428, Crit: 7426 (Catus recommendation)
Right: Hit: 2608, Expertise: 2940, Mastery: 7347, Haste: 7345, Crit: 7342 (avoids Waist socket bonus)
(shows up lower in the list of solutions)
Code: Select all
            Agility: -160 Agi                                 => +160 Agi
    Critical Strike: +84 Crit                                 => -84 Crit
          Expertise: +120 Expertise                           => -120 Expertise
              Haste: +83 Haste                                => -83 Haste
                Hit: +71 Hit                                  => -71 Hit
            Mastery: +82 Mastery                              => -82 Mastery


This is where things get tricky because no one has actually established the relative value of Agility vs Secondaries; I'm using 2:1. Catus is maximizing the proc, which is why it thinks the left is better:
Code: Select all
(82 + (83 + 84) * 2) = __416__ >  (2 * 160) = __320__

But since the Rune just redistributes your secondaries and the overall sum stays the same, possibly the score should just be the following, since I'm not penalizing for the negative Crit and Haste:
Code: Select all
(82 + (83 + 84) * 2 - 83 - 84) = (82 + 83 + 84) = __249__

Edit: with this change, it makes the "Right"-side recommendation above (where it breaks your waist socket bonus) the #1 recommendation.

Possibly the correct answer is some hybrid of these two, since snapshot mechanics makes the rune a gain, even though it's just a redistribution. Maybe it depends on the actual stat weights for a normal non-Rune reforge.
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby mekell » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:40 pm

Raffy - do you hve instructions posted anywhere on doing the dps simulation comparison that you reference in this thread?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4674&start=25

You note at the bottom of your latest post that that is all doable in catus and i cannot figure out how.

i dug through a couple pages at the front and start of this thread and cant find it. In my catus (17), when i click generate log or generate distribution, it pops up the progress bar and then it goes away and nothing. I am not sure if i am doing something wrong or what. Basically im just trying to see changes in simulated dps with different trinket setups.

I apologize if this is a repeated question, i tried searching and manually looking through several threads and just have not been able to find it.
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Galatea » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:47 pm

hello everyone :D
i have a stupid question ^^'
today from celestials i got t16 gloves and from Ordos warforged pants
my question is: should i break the t15 4p bonus for get 2k mastery proc from Rune of Re-Origination
? or stay with full set t15 for now D:

Also with using catus i already calculated the mastery proc but for keep up mastery as primary value, catus dont add enchs on pants and shoulders... is this good?

sorry for bad english :oops:

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby mekell » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:51 pm

additionally ive noticed that catus is not picking up my major glyphs except shred.

This is in version 17 (i followed your instructions on deleting the item cache and re downloading it to fix the random stat item issue described earlier).
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:24 pm

Yeah, Blizzard changed the Glyph codes for a bunch of the glyphs. I'll fix this tonight. I never expected this to change, possibly I can make this editable in some config file. I try to avoid hardcoding stuff.

Sure, I can write up a little tutorial on how to do simple DPS comparisons in Catus. Here are some pointers to hold you over:

When you click "Generate Distribution", it first brings up a modal dialog box with a progress bar, that sets up the encounter and simulator, and calculates combat time and figures out mob health and stuff, and then it makes another window with a progress bar (with pause/done button + text field for naming the simulation). This window is non-modal (running on it's on thread) so you're free to do other things. When the simulation completes, it launches your text editor with the final report. If you run Catus full screen, you might lose this window in the background. I've designed Catus so the window only consumes a small amount of horizontal space. "Generate Log" starts out the same way, but creates a textual combat log almost immediately, because it only has to run 1-iteration.

Typically, I like to setup the encounter and various buffs/talents first, then once I get my gear figured out, I hit "Generate Distribution". While that sim is going, I go change my reforge, and hit "Generate Distribution" again. Then, I might change my trinket or a buff/debuff setting and do another "Generate Distribution". When simulator window first pops up, I name it with a quick description, or automatically choose a name from the suggestion menu so I don't forget what it was (there's so many settings it's easy to lose track.) Once a simulator is started, you're free to change stuff in the Catus window and it won't effect the sim. For shortcuts, you can hit Ctrl-S to Save the Config, Ctrl-R to show Config directory (so you can Edit/Delete them), Ctrl-L to "Generate Combat Log", Ctrl-D to "Generate Distribution".

It's important to have a reasonable encounter/sim setup: I'd suggest using the "Standard Encounter: Reset to Defaults". If you want to mimic the variance of Simc's +/- 20% default, select that from the menu beside the combat duration. I usually do 5k-25k (10k mostly) iterations for most tests. Make sure your buffs/debuffs match what your raid provides: if you raid 10s without a warrior, don't use 2 Skull Banners :) If you have to apply Faerie Fire, make sure you indicate that in the sim. If you don't prepot, make sure it's disabled. Match your consumables. Check your talents and glyphs. If you're using HotW, you get extra options (and you'll need to setup your Caster Weapon under "Weapon Swap" section if you have Wrath or Hurricane enabled.) If your curious how any of these features are being used, I'd encourage you to generate a combat log, and sanity check it.
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby mekell » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:03 pm

Perfect, thank you so much
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby mekell » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:29 pm

Ok, what i am seeing when i click Generate Distribution, or Generate Log, is just a very quick "Generating Combat Log" dialog that is literally open and close for like 2 seconds, barely enough to read the title. No logs display, no additional dialogs display its just open and close in a split second.

Additionally i tried running it from a command prompt using java -jar thinking i might see some error output to the console that might lead me to figure out what the problem is, but just a statment like "Rebuilt: 271ms"

For my quick test, i am just using my default armory gear. I manualy set the 2 missing glyphs,

Put in food, flask, etc. Set buffs to self, since i dont really care what this particular output is, i can tweak these later.

Chose patchwerk style encounter, reset to defaults, left other options here as is.

When i click Generate distribution, i see the popup progress bar for like 2 seconds, and then its just back to the main screen like nothing happened. I feel like i am missing something.

This was a clean install of catus too, deleted all the old versions completely, downloaded 17, Reforging works fine, the "computable statistics" appear to be working fine. "Show Encounter script" does nothing.
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:42 pm

Try now.

Just an FYI, going from that above screenshot, you want to toggle on the Savage Roar option in Combat Prep (that uses 0cp Roar before combat) and the clock icon with "5 minutes" is the RPPM reset, that should be set to "Standard" (which is 120sec in 5.4) And you've disabled LotP by accident.
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby mekell » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:04 am

Thank worked, thank you Raffy!
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Paloro » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:57 am

I'm looking at my generated combat log and it seems the sim is using FoN at the beginning of the RoR proc instead of at the end.
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:33 pm

The action list still needs some work. Prior to release, I was working on generalizing the FoN code so it didn't require trinket specific logic:
Code: Select all
force_of_nature,if=buff.rune_of_reorigination.up&buff.rune_of_reorigination.remains<1
force_of_nature,if=buff.rune_of_reorigination.up|buff.renatakis_soul_charm.up
force_of_nature,if=buff.renatakis_soul_charm.up&buff.renatakis_soul_charm.remains<1
force_of_nature,if=buff.ticking_ebon_detonator.up

Currently, I'm just using these triggers:
Code: Select all
force_of_nature,if=force_of_nature.stack=3|target.time_to_die<20
force_of_nature,if=fon_thres

Actually, if you view the Patchwerk Encounter Script (button in encounter section), you'll see that there is some Rune logic commented out:
Code: Select all
fon: force_of_nature,if=fon_thres #&(!buff.rune_of_reorigination.up|buff.rune_of_reorigination.remains<1


I'm currently triggering FoN when the damage exceeds some threshold: "fon_thres"

I determine this by computing the FoN modifier table:
Code: Select all
Multi     Avg    Tick    Crit      AP Crit  Bleed  #
3.18x   55296   37802   75603  102441  46%  3.54x  5    Pot   Synapse Springs   Dancing Steel   Rune of Re-Origination<543>   Bad Juju<543>
3.02x   52617   36329   72658   98437  45%  3.54x  4    Pot   Synapse Springs                   Rune of Re-Origination<543>   Bad Juju<543>
3.00x   52184   36089   72177   97784  45%  3.54x  4    Pot                     Dancing Steel   Rune of Re-Origination<543>   Bad Juju<543>
2.85x   49555   34617   69233   93782  43%  3.54x  3    Pot                                     Rune of Re-Origination<543>   Bad Juju<543>
2.81x   48877   34233   68466   92739  43%  3.54x  4          Synapse Springs   Dancing Steel   Rune of Re-Origination<543>   Bad Juju<543>
2.66x   46301   32760   65520   88735  41%  3.54x  3          Synapse Springs                   Rune of Re-Origination<543>   Bad Juju<543>
2.64x   45885   32520   65040   88082  41%  3.54x  3                            Dancing Steel   Rune of Re-Origination<543>   Bad Juju<543>
2.49x   43360   31048   62096   84080  40%  3.54x  2                                            Rune of Re-Origination<543>   Bad Juju<543>
2.37x   41324   29843   59686   80804  38%  3.54x  4    Pot   Synapse Springs   Dancing Steel   Rune of Re-Origination<543>               
2.23x   38876   28371   56743   76803  37%  3.54x  3    Pot   Synapse Springs                   Rune of Re-Origination<543>               
2.21x   38479   28130   56260   76147  37%  3.54x  3    Pot                     Dancing Steel   Rune of Re-Origination<543>               
2.07x   36081   26658   53316   72145  35%  3.54x  2    Pot                                     Rune of Re-Origination<543>               
2.04x   35462   26274   52549   71102  35%  3.54x  3          Synapse Springs   Dancing Steel   Rune of Re-Origination<543>               
1.90x   33118   24803   49605   67101  34%  3.54x  2          Synapse Springs                   Rune of Re-Origination<543>               
1.88x   32738   24561   49123   66445  33%  3.54x  2                            Dancing Steel   Rune of Re-Origination<543>               
1.80x   31327   19593   39185  102441  60%  1.83x  4    Pot   Synapse Springs   Dancing Steel                                 Bad Juju<543>
1.75x   30442   23089   46179   62443  32%  3.54x  1                                            Rune of Re-Origination<543>               
1.71x   29835   18829   37658   98437  58%  1.83x  3    Pot   Synapse Springs                                                 Bad Juju<543>
1.70x   29593   18705   37409   97784  58%  1.83x  3    Pot                     Dancing Steel                                 Bad Juju<543>
1.62x   28127   17942   35884   93782  57%  1.83x  2    Pot                                                                   Bad Juju<543>
1.59x   27749   17743   35486   92739  56%  1.83x  3          Synapse Springs   Dancing Steel                                 Bad Juju<543>
1.51x   26310   16980   33959   88735  55%  1.83x  2          Synapse Springs                                                 Bad Juju<543>
1.50x   26077   16855   33710   88082  55%  1.83x  2                            Dancing Steel                                 Bad Juju<543>
1.42x   24664   16092   32184   84080  53%  1.83x  1                                                                          Bad Juju<543>
1.35x   23524   15468   30935   80804  52%  1.83x  3    Pot   Synapse Springs   Dancing Steel                                             
1.27x   22152   14705   29410   76803  51%  1.83x  2    Pot   Synapse Springs                                                             
1.26x   21929   14580   29160   76147  50%  1.83x  2    Pot                     Dancing Steel                                             
1.18x   20582   13817   27634   72145  49%  1.83x  1    Pot                                                                               
1.16x   20234   13618   27236   71102  49%  1.83x  2          Synapse Springs   Dancing Steel                                             
1.09x   18915   12855   25710   67101  47%  1.83x  1          Synapse Springs                                                             
1.07x   18701   12730   25460   66445  47%  1.83x  1                            Dancing Steel                                             
1.00x   17408   11967   23934   62443  45%  1.83x  0                                                                                       

Then assigning a probability to each multiplier based on what actually happens in the sim over a sliding 60second window (worst case multiplier while waiting to 3 charges). Starting from the bottom, I accumulate the probabilities until I beat 75% of them, and then "fon_thres" returns true when the expected FoN damage exceeds that amount.

To solve the Rune problem, I just need to add lookahead prediction to FoN. I've already done it for Rip and Rake: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=817&start=475#p19035 (but I'm not using it in the script yet)

I'll probably implement the following:
Code: Select all
fon_power(t) // fon multiplier if used in t-sec
fon_cdf(t) // rank of fon multiplier (or greater) occurring in t-sec
fon_power_max // highest amount of fon damage possible


And then use these actions:
Code: Select all
force_of_nature,if=force_of_nature.stack=3|target.time_to_die<20
force_of_nature,if=fon_cdf(0)>=0.95
force_of_nature,if=fon_cdf(0)>=0.75&fon_power(0)>fon_power(1.5)

"FoN damage is better than 75% of the expected sliding 60sec window damage and the damage decreases in the next 1.5sec"

Possibly, slightly better logic uses different thresholds based on the number of charges:
Code: Select all
force_of_nature,if=fon_cdf(0)>=0.75+(3-force_of_nature.stack)*0.1&fon_power(0)>fon_power(1.5)


That might sound complicated, but it translates into something very simple:
"use FoN if both trinkets are up (or equivalent damage)"
"use FoN if Rune is up and is about to fade in 1.5sec, or Juju is up and is about to fade, ..."
This process allows it to work regardless of your choice of trinkets, buffs, consumables, gear, etc...

Edit: I guess if you have two non-Rune procs it's stupid to wait until only a few sec are left, so maybe it still requires Rune-specific logic.
Edit: actually, I guess I just need to check if the FoN melee damage goes down. If it does, wait until proc fade edge, otherwise use immediately.
Edit: ramp up damage (Soul Charm) can be checked with: fon_power(1)>fon_power(0)
Edit: this method also needs to skip data collection during HotW casting.
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Paloro » Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:17 pm

I found it weird logic because i'm using a 549 Renataki and 549 RoR. However, I suppose since Rake is only casted once and AP scales dynamically, it wouldn't be a bad idea to pop them near the start to up the overall melee damage.
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:11 pm

I'll update Catus again tonight with the above FoN improvements, fixed glyph import, and various other bug fixes.
Edit: removed meta gem ICD, consolidated set bonuses (when [x] Override Set Bonuses)

@Paloro
If you're experimenting with FoN, you probably want to enable [x] Retard FoN under "Internal Features" which causes Rake to be applied from the front of the target. I should of made this default, but I was expecting Blizzard to fix this issue, as there has been many reports about FoN (even before Rake was added) being super derp and attacking from the front for random periods of time.
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby aggixx » Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:49 pm

raffy wrote:Edit: I guess if you have two non-Rune procs it's stupid to wait until only a few sec are left, so maybe it still requires Rune-specific logic.

Paloro wrote:I found it weird logic because i'm using a 549 Renataki and 549 RoR. However, I suppose since Rake is only casted once and AP scales dynamically, it wouldn't be a bad idea to pop them near the start to up the overall melee damage.

In SimC it's optimal to use them whenever a proc is about to expire or when both non-Rune non-Rena's trinkets are up.

For example, logic for Bad Juju + Haromm's would look like this:

if=charges=3|(buff.juju_madness.react&buff.juju_madness.remains<1)|(buff.vicious.react&buff.vicious.remains<1)|(buff.juju_madness.react&buff.vicious.react)|target.time_to_die<20
Read as: At 3 Charges OR Bad Juju up and about to end OR Haromm's up and about to end OR both Bad Juju and Haromm's are active OR target about to die.

For any trinket pair that includes Renataki's Soul Charm, the third buff conditional is excluded like so:
if=charges=3|(buff.rune_of_reorigination.react&buff.rune_of_reorigination.remains<1)|(buff.vicious.react&buff.vicious.remains<1)|target.time_to_die<20
Read as: At 3 Charges OR Rune up and about to end OR Haromm's up and about to end OR target about to die.

This allows you to have the maximum amount of treants be used during both procs overlapping. If you're using an ICD based trinket then it can be smartened a tad by using your treants immediately when your RPPM trinket procs if your ICD trinket has > (proc duration) left on it's ICD.
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Xig » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:30 pm

Any news on a 5.4 release of Zephyrus (v17)?

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:40 pm

Xig wrote:Any news on a 5.4 release of Zephyrus (v17)?

Current release is v17 and should work for 5.4, let me know if you're having issues.

@aggixx
If you have some free time this weekend, we should try to sync up our FoN and HotW damage numbers.

---

I'm also curious if anyone has imported any non-default gear into Catus either via Armory import or "Add/Edit Item" that didn't work properly. I'm kinda surprised the transition to my web API didn't cause any critical issues.

Edit: Flex gear was loading as 536 for some odd reason, this is fixed for everyone now.
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