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Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby ShmooDude » Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:13 pm

Steakbomb wrote:This is one of the reason's that Shmoodude reccommends using Ovale ratio's over WA or DF. Ovale is very aggressive when overwriting bleeds.

WA and DF waits until the character sheet is updated to update the ratios and Ovale doesn't. If you read the last couple pages of this thread than you will see the convo that Shmoo and I had about this same thing.

I believe(could be wrong) that Ovale will suggest an overwrite at 105 vs DF/WA doesn't turn green until 110.

Personally I use WA Bleed Ratios but this is a personal choice as I don't look at Ovale for my move list most of the time as it is pretty much engraved in my head. It does lag behind a little bit but I'm used to it.

If you want your ratios to be spot on then use Ovale's ratios but set your Ovale delay to at least .3 or .4 so you don't accidentally overwrite something you shouldn't.


(My) Ovale is set to overwrite rip at >=115 (or rake at 112). The difference comes from Ovale attempting (not always successfully atm though, jeshu's spent a LOT of time working on it) to "update" a bleeds stats from a new character sheet snapshot when it feels it is necessary (if an aura was gained/expired between the time the client said to apply the bleed and the time the bleed actually appeared I believe is how its setup currently). WA/DF will never do this and thus has problems around the expiration of a buff (ovale does too, but in the opposite way in that it will sometimes think a buff expired before you put a bleed on when it hasn't).

As long as you are aware of the issue and play around it (like steak said making sure you don't apply a bleed 0.3 or 0.4 seconds from a buff expiring), it really doesn't matter too awful much which you use. One thing I did to help a lot with this is I made my WA for the trinket procs only show if the duration is >0.4 seconds. This way I'm not tempted to apply a bleed too close to the tail end of a buff.

Eventually, Jeshu may give us the option to grab the bleed damage directly (its not currently possible as there's currently no way to factor out crit damage). The downside to this method is you have to then factor out any damage reduction/increase debuffs from the boss and any crit damage increases (because you want the non-crit damage). Thus this method would be terrible for PvP but probably doable for raids (ex tortos and Skull banner are the only things we'd have to deal with this tier). Potentially, someone could probably modify the WeakAuras or DroodFocus to do this as well and thus make them more accurate than they are now (everything but crit would be correct as its the only snapshotted stat you can't infer directly from the damage). I wouldn't completely replace the old method, but make it an option that can be toggled so that it could be easily turned off anytime it might end up inaccurate.

I have a feeling this may all end up moot next expansion as I would almost bet that they're gonna remove stat snapshotting based on GC's tweets.

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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby inferiorlol » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:32 pm

Hello, I've been noticing some strange stuff with the Rip ratios when using Shmoos script.

I believe this video will show it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npKKT0pcogk

The first Rip is buffed with RoR, Dancing Steel, DoC and TF.

The second with only DoC.

Why is the Rip box showing 125% Rip ratio?

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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby Alpheus » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:44 pm

inferiorlol wrote:Hello, I've been noticing some strange stuff with the Rip ratios when using Shmoos script.

I believe this video will show it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npKKT0pcogk

The first Rip is buffed with RoR, Dancing Steel, DoC and TF.

The second with only DoC.

Why is the Rip box showing 125% Rip ratio?


Judging by your energy regen is it possible you proc'd a haste RoRo? Maybe you swapped some items around? Had teleport cloak?
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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby inferiorlol » Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:02 pm

Alpheus wrote:
Judging by your energy regen is it possible you proc'd a haste RoRo? Maybe you swapped some items around? Had teleport cloak?


That's the first thing I check. You can also see that it suggest me to spam rake when RoR procs. And the weird ratio is only for Rip and not Rake. If I would have procced haste tha rake ratio should behave in the same way.

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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby Meaningless » Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:10 pm

I don't really use ovale personally but I tried it out a few times yesterday and noticed something strange, my rip was gone from the target, and it showed me to use Mangle -> Thrash -> Rip, My energy was fairly low at around 40, thrash wasn't up and TF was on 8 seconds cd by the time it suggested rip, I've yet been able to reproduce this behavior but I was wondering if it's suppost to do that?

It also told me to use Rip -> Thrash when Rip was on 3 seconds left and Thrash 4, and TF was around 3 second CD.
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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby Jeshu » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:39 pm

I've update Ovale to 5.4.0 and Nerien's Ovale Scripts to 5.4.1. Those should pull in the latest pullups from aggixx (which merged the ShmooDude script into the Leafkiller one).

Test it out. If there are addon problems (not rotation issues), then post on this thread, and I'll check back later and try to resolve them. I'm currently out of the country for a week (and missing the SoO launch), but I'll try to get any addon problems fixed for people who need them for raiding.

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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby JTF195 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:45 pm

I just updated to the latest version of both ovale and nerien's scripts, and ShmooDude's script is no longer available in the code picker

Edit: Derp. didn't see that ShmooDude's changes were merged into Leafkiller's script.

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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby aggixx » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:20 pm

Indeed. I talked with ShmooDude about it a couple times and we basically agreed that his changes made his script superior after optimizations were made so the CPU usage wasn't ridiculous, so after some bugs got ironed out a bit we decided it would be appropriate to merge the scripts together.

Big props to Shmoo who's put a lot of work into both the SimC APL and the changes he's made to the Ovale script, he deserves most of the credit for these changes.
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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby keepwalkin » Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:00 pm

Hi all, new user, long time reader.

I'm having issues with both the Nerien, and Leafkiller scripts for Ovale.

They are constantly suggesting Rake instead of Mangle for my CP generator. Could this be to do with Rune? That thing procs like crazy so I can only assume it's that, but why keep suggesting it?

I can carry out the rotation just fine but I use Ovale mainly just to keep on track if I'm pulled away from my target for some reason.

Bear in mind I actually main spec Guardian and just play feral as a solid offspec but would love some pointers on this if possible!

Regardless of my issues, I think you guys are doing an awesome job with the scripts and appreciate all the work you do. It's awesome.

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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby Steakbomb » Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:00 pm

With Rune proc up, Rake hits harder than Mangle so it will suggest it as a CP gen when it's up.
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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby keepwalkin » Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:12 pm

Steakbomb wrote:With Rune proc up, Rake hits harder than Mangle so it will suggest it as a CP gen when it's up.


Thanks for that, thought as much.

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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby RareBeast » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:35 am

I'm at 542 ilvl with normal rune & heroic TF rentakis. I use SotF & HotW. Lately I have been noticing that just after I have had procs and got my uber rake, thrash and rip up, (and the trinket procs have finished) that the script sometimes still tells me to rake repeatedly. The little red dots on my droodfocus are showing red, so I have been ignoring this (when I notice). I can't imagine it is even possible that there is any combination of other buffs that would beat a rake cast on the last tick of Rentakis while Rune is active so this certainly seems to be wrong.

Other than that the script is working fantastically for me. Thanks for all your work.


** edit ** I'll try and remember to turn the bleed ratio boxes on in the script. I always have them off and only just thought of investigating further that way.

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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby Samskeyti » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:23 am

I'm not sure if it's something on my side, but lately in the new raid, sometimes Ovale comes up with an error when there's a boss event, such as a spell hitting me (I know I should write more info down about this), and it just keeps calculating something in the chat window, drastically reducing the framerate, for a few seconds and then it stops working till I do a relog. Yesterday during Iron Juggernaut, it kept calculating and calculating these walls of text, and it actually didn't stop, so I switched the textbox to show combat events, which helped the framerate for that particular try.
This doesn't happen often, but always in a raid, about once or twice per raid evening.
I'm using Leafkiller's script, always the latest one.
Has anyone else experienced this at all?
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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby Silvertip » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:18 am

Yeah, I had alot of trouble recently too doing flex raid with the latest script. Framerate was so bad that I couldn't really play. Switched back to an older script and evertyhing worked fine.

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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby Nige » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:19 am

Been using the latest script and it all seems fine to me, cleared up to Nasgrim last night with no issues.

Also i should mention that this is on 10 man not 25. Don't know if that will make any difference.

Might be worth trying to disable your other addons and run just the script and see if you still get the error / fps issue ?

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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby ShmooDude » Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:19 pm

RareBeast wrote:I'm at 542 ilvl with normal rune & heroic TF rentakis. I use SotF & HotW. Lately I have been noticing that just after I have had procs and got my uber rake, thrash and rip up, (and the trinket procs have finished) that the script sometimes still tells me to rake repeatedly. The little red dots on my droodfocus are showing red, so I have been ignoring this (when I notice). I can't imagine it is even possible that there is any combination of other buffs that would beat a rake cast on the last tick of Rentakis while Rune is active so this certainly seems to be wrong.

Other than that the script is working fantastically for me. Thanks for all your work.


** edit ** I'll try and remember to turn the bleed ratio boxes on in the script. I always have them off and only just thought of investigating further that way.


How far into the Rake does it tell you to rake repeatedly? The new Rake filler line is: NewTickDamage*(RemainingTicks+1) - OldTickDamage*RemainingTicks > MangleDamage. So if for example you're on your last tick (or two) of "uber" rake but you have a rune proc and one or two other buffs, the new rake could potentially hit hard enough to outshine the old rake + mangle.

The other potential issue is Ovale might be thinking you applied Rake too late into Renataki and/or Rune and discounted those buffs before saving the dot data. DF doesn't do this and so the ratios have the potential to be different. IMO Ovale is a bit too aggressive in removing buffs from dots but if you're try not to apply bleeds during the last half a second (that's the new default setting for the dropbox in the script as well), it should work fine.

Samskeyti wrote:I'm not sure if it's something on my side, but lately in the new raid, sometimes Ovale comes up with an error when there's a boss event, such as a spell hitting me (I know I should write more info down about this), and it just keeps calculating something in the chat window, drastically reducing the framerate, for a few seconds and then it stops working till I do a relog. Yesterday during Iron Juggernaut, it kept calculating and calculating these walls of text, and it actually didn't stop, so I switched the textbox to show combat events, which helped the framerate for that particular try.
This doesn't happen often, but always in a raid, about once or twice per raid evening.
I'm using Leafkiller's script, always the latest one.
Has anyone else experienced this at all?
Silvertip wrote:Yeah, I had alot of trouble recently too doing flex raid with the latest script. Framerate was so bad that I couldn't really play. Switched back to an older script and evertyhing worked fine.


Do either of you use SoO trinkets? That's the only thing I can think of as I've not had any issues in Normal (25 or 10). Those are really the only things that haven't been tested as I don't have any of the trinkets.

EDIT: Though to be honest I haven't been using that version of the script since the first week. If you want, you can try my internal version (I'd probably not use the potions feature yet unless you're adventurous) and see if that fixes the problem, but I don't know that I actually changed anything that'd fix what's going on with you guys.

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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby Cetlysm » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:26 pm

Using Leafkiller and its sometimes telling me to Rip with 5 cp and a doc with no procs while I have Rips with rune, renataki, DoC and even TF with at least 6 sec left.
Rune is procing mastery, and WA bleed ratio confirms that my current bleed is wayyy better.
I think it started to happen once I got set 4, even when feral rage is well above 6 sec left.
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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby aggixx » Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:43 am

Cetlysm wrote:I think it started to happen once I got set 4, even when feral rage is well above 6 sec left.

That's definitely not the cause, the only way 4 set interacts with the script is by forcing it to stop FB pooling when it's going to expire.
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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby Alpheus » Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:26 am

Cetlysm wrote:Using Leafkiller and its sometimes telling me to Rip with 5 cp and a doc with no procs while I have Rips with rune, renataki, DoC and even TF with at least 6 sec left.
Rune is procing mastery, and WA bleed ratio confirms that my current bleed is wayyy better.
I think it started to happen once I got set 4, even when feral rage is well above 6 sec left.


Is the icon "red"? If any of the action are red then that just indicates a delayed execution and sometimes it will shove in a reactionary thrash or FF. If you execute it immediately then it might be less optimal. The other thing I can think of is that you had perhaps low uptime on Savage Roar (like <7 seconds) and with the rip expiring Ovale figured you need a rip up now so you can start working towards that roar (otherwise both expire). It's hard to stay with this little context.
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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby ShmooDude » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:06 am

Alpheus wrote:
Cetlysm wrote:Using Leafkiller and its sometimes telling me to Rip with 5 cp and a doc with no procs while I have Rips with rune, renataki, DoC and even TF with at least 6 sec left.
Rune is procing mastery, and WA bleed ratio confirms that my current bleed is wayyy better.
I think it started to happen once I got set 4, even when feral rage is well above 6 sec left.


Is the icon "red"? If any of the action are red then that just indicates a delayed execution and sometimes it will shove in a reactionary thrash or FF. If you execute it immediately then it might be less optimal.


Pretty sure this is it. I also use OmniCC and what I did is setup OmniCC to show the cooldown text 100% of the time (so even the GCD) for my ovale icons so that way it was obvious when to use an ability (I have it setup so it only does this for Ovale icons, I can give instructions on how to do this if anyone wants). If you don't use OmniCC, Ovale also has its own numeric display that will do the exact same thing under /ovale config -> Icons -> Numeric Display. I just prefer the look/feel of the OmniCC ones over the integrated Ovale ones (doesn't matter which you use)

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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby Spanja » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:32 am

It seems that if you have enough haste/energy, it never asks to use Berserk (I noticed it vs Alysrazor with haste buff).

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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby Mathoran » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:51 am

Since someone mentioned SOO trinkets I have a TED and the script is telling me to spam rake when it procs. Doesn't seem like you should since agi decreases every second.

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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby Alpheus » Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:08 pm

Spanja wrote:It seems that if you have enough haste/energy, it never asks to use Berserk (I noticed it vs Alysrazor with haste buff).


And what's wrong with that? If you're constantly energy capped berserk servers no purpose :)
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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby Spanja » Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:34 pm

I don't know, that just seemed weird to me :p

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Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby ShmooDude » Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:52 pm

Mathoran wrote:Since someone mentioned SOO trinkets I have a TED and the script is telling me to spam rake when it procs. Doesn't seem like you should since agi decreases every second.


Always or just with a rune proc as well? Only thing I can think of is the rake filler line which can overwrite a slightly stronger bleed if the new bleed will still out damage the old bleed + mangle (which is probably the case under a TED + rune proc and maybe the case under just a TED proc). Not having one I can't do any testing myself.

I could disable that line under a TED proc but simcraft doesn't show any benefit (actually a ~300 DPS loss) for doing that.

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