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Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Primalgore » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:13 am

Yeah, the RoR sims were correctly reforged for it, the Shado-Pan rep one is still simming ~6k higher than RoR with the default Simulationcraft script after testing again this morning

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Simbba » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:50 pm

so if i have 530 RoR i should b using 2 SOO trinkets?

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby aggixx » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:23 pm

With 2 normal mode Siege of Orgrimmar trinkets, yes.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Lyones » Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:32 am

Well, unfortanally, even after 20 kills on lei shen (6 on heroic) rune never droped for me, so I have a raid finder version only. Should I replace it ASAP with AoC (droped two days ago)

Also, what kind o reforging it`s the best for those without rune ? I kinda simmed my char in catus and didn't got better results, maybe i`s the reforge

fyi, my other trinket is heroic renataki.

thanks

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby raffy » Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:08 am

You can do this yourself using this tutorial: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4574&start=600#p19321

Armory as-is (+160 Agility enchant on Ring)
Code: Select all
  Median:   311661
    Mean:   312519 +/- 134.17 (13417)
 25%/75%:   303.2K - 321.1K
 10%/90%:   295.9K - 330.1K
 Min/Max:   270.0K - 380.2K

[543] Renataki's Soul Charm / [561] Assurance of Consequence
Using "Maximize Secondary" with Defaults:
Hit: 2554, Expertise: 2555, Mastery: 11150, Haste: 5538, Crit: 9681
Code: Select all
  Median:   313937
    Mean:   314307 +/- 91.76 (9176)
 25%/75%:   307.9K - 320.1K
 10%/90%:   302.8K - 326.4K
 Min/Max:   283.2K - 355.9K

Same, but using weights st. Haste > Crit
Hit: 2554, Expertise: 2555, Mastery: 11269, Haste: 8669, Crit: 6431
Code: Select all
  Median:   312541
    Mean:   312946 +/- 91.05 (9105)
 25%/75%:   306.6K - 318.9K
 10%/90%:   301.6K - 324.7K
 Min/Max:   278.9K - 355.2K

The first thing to note is that both AoC sims have much lower DPS variance (9K vs. 13.5K)
AoC also provides significant defensive benefits.

Since these DPS numbers are all pretty close, I'd say go with what your more comfortable with; and if you're willing to change, I'd say go with Renataki + AoC w/Mastery reforge. Remember, to maximize the value of AoC, you need to be using your TF frequently.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Steakbomb » Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:29 am

From what I have seen within sims and WoL, the difference between a 549 Rune and a 530 Rune aren't that huge. Even with the higher proc chance on the H TF Rune, I am seeing an average of ~24-25% uptime vs a Normal Rune at ~21-22% uptime.

Personally I am still using a 530 Rune(Have killed H Lei Shen 8 times) and I would love to get a 549 Rune soon(we still clear ToT every week to try for specific gear) but even if I don't, I will still be using my 530 Rune for quite a while.

If I never get it to drop for me then I will probably move away from it and go with Harrom's/AoC Heroic Trinkets.

I think when Blizz changed around the RPPM mechanics, they may have made a lower ilvl Rune better than it was but H TF Rune worse then it was.

I ran a Sim in Catus the other day with 2 sets of gear. Both full Heroic Warforged BiS. Both using H WF Harrom's. Only difference was "Current Config" used a 530 ilvl Rune and "Snapshot" used a 549 Rune.

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These results could change and I didn't mess with many of the default sim settings but I don't see a massive loss using a lower ilvl Rune even when you are in full heroic WF gear.

Although if you are in full H WF gear then I would deff switch to Heroic Trinkets as the gap between a Heroic Trinket and a 530 ilvl Rune is much larger.

Just purely speaking for Rune, a 2-3% uptime difference on a say 10 minute fight is 10 - 20 seconds of downtime is not huge.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Lyones » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:31 am

thank you edgy, I did those simulations, but didn`t noticed that AoC had a lower interval than rune.

Well, I really like Rune playstyle, but next week we gonna start heroic and I think that I`m gonna switch for defensive benefits.

Also, really good to know that I can survive with a normal rune, maybe next week I`ll look for a 25 man normal Lei Shen on my server. (maybe Lei Shen 25 man heroic on openraid, but I don`t know if they are doing it a lot). thanks steak.

thanks everyone

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby bacevicius » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:14 pm

This is in response to the above post on RORO.. I have sim'd over and over You should keep your 536 RORO until you have 2 551's from SOO. Otherwise your at a loss, a big one. I use 549 renataki's and my 536 roro. sim still shows a net ~2k-3k more dps replacing renatakis BEFORE roro with ONLY AoC 561 SOO, versus replacing RORO with the AoC and keeping the HTF 'taki. In other words . even the regular 536 roro is still the best and op you can have until two pieces of 561 SOO trinks I use HOTW because I don't know any feral that can rotate DoC error free and consistienly during a raid thus resulting in a few errors your HOTW will out do a screwed up DOC raid fight, esp now with the 20% rip buff (which is only really a buff during raid bosses) pretty much no dps in crease in aoe etc trash and 5 man crap etc. Just my personal pref, and opinion.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Alpheus » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:56 pm

bacevicius wrote:This is in response to the above post on RORO.. I have sim'd over and over You should keep your 536 RORO until you have 2 551's from SOO. Otherwise your at a loss, a big one. I use 549 renataki's and my 536 roro. sim still shows a net ~2k-3k more dps replacing renatakis BEFORE roro with ONLY AoC 561 SOO, versus replacing RORO with the AoC and keeping the HTF 'taki. In other words . even the regular 536 roro is still the best and op you can have until two pieces of 561 SOO trinks I use HOTW because I don't know any feral that can rotate DoC error free and consistienly during a raid thus resulting in a few errors your HOTW will out do a screwed up DOC raid fight, esp now with the 20% rip buff (which is only really a buff during raid bosses) pretty much no dps in crease in aoe etc trash and 5 man crap etc. Just my personal pref, and opinion.


Ironically, using HotW loses you more dps than having taken the "lower-simming" trinket combination. All of the above trinket combinations are valid. Player skill + raid potential is the limit.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby RareBeast » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:46 pm

I did a lot of work in Catus with my trinkets the other day. With my current gear, new 551 trinkets beat the 530 RoRO. But once I gear up to full 551 gear the RoRO edges ahead again.

One thing I did notice was that Catus seemed to alway say that Ticking Ebon Detonator > Haromms > AoC. Should I follow that?

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby raffy » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:14 pm

For your gear and HotW+SotF, it appears [561] Ebon > [561] Haromm > [549] Rena, but they're all so close, I'd say it just personal preference.

IMO, there's no need to waste VP upgrading a multitude of trinkets just because (for the gear you have right now) there's a 1-3K DPS gap. Maybe you'll get another piece of gear this week and the best trinket might change again.

Both Rena and Haromm are much easier to use in practice. You can almost always kiss the first two ticks of Ebon goodbye.

Personally, I like the feel of Rena+Rune: I can frequently get double trinket Rip/Rakes going (both are RPPM > 1.2) and I like the ramp effect ("how often do you get a trinket that's like, ok get ready!"), but if I had a [561] Haromm, I'd use it because I'm over the Exp softcap. I'm not a fan of Ebon, but I don't have one to play with yet, and my only experience with it was on the PTR vs. dummy w/o good binds :)
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Zstriker » Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:50 am

I got warforged AoC
and I was disappointed on it 2 min cd proc, while have 1/3 cd redution is great for TF on lots add fights,
procing side of trinket is crap I didn't notice any dps increase after hc tf renataki, plus a lost of 2k secondary stats >.<

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Tremnen » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:40 am

Zstriker wrote:I got warforged AoC
and I was disappointed on it 2 min cd proc, while have 1/3 cd redution is great for TF on lots add fights,
procing side of trinket is crap I didn't notice any dps increase after hc tf renataki, plus a lost of 2k secondary stats >.<


I think DPS players as a whole do not respect the value of getting more defensive cooldowns enough when evealuating this trinket. The ability to get off more SI's or Barkskins over a fight are immensely powerful.

More periodic Stampedeing roars while not necessarily a DPS gain for you can increase overral raid dps for those pesky casters who need to move quickly then sit and dps.

The trinket is honestly amazing its just it doesnt reflect itself immediately on your DPS meter so I think it is undervalued by some people.Its synergy with the 4pc is also great. My one beef with it is that it doesn't reduce the troll racial so I find my macro doesn't work too well. I need to bind it to Tiger's fury as well.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Zstriker » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:19 am

Tremnen wrote:I think DPS players as a whole do not respect the value of getting more defensive cooldowns enough when evealuating this trinket. The ability to get off more SI's or Barkskins over a fight are immensely powerful.

I don't see lots of spikes dmg cmpared to tot or even t14, for all normal clear barskin or SI was almost used once per fight, yet while overgearing content healers heals more so it's not noticable

More periodic Stampedeing roars while not necessarily a DPS gain for you can increase overral raid dps for those pesky casters who need to move quickly then sit and dps.

also not much use for melee, fights are mostly stationary

The trinket is honestly amazing its just it doesnt reflect itself immediately on your DPS meter so I think it is undervalued by some people.Its synergy with the 4pc is also great.


I have t16 4 set I don't see it have use to it,
I said is great trinket for Spoils of Pandaria, Galakras, and Garrosh p1, as you can do more trash+swipes, and more rip+rake cleave

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby cg1351 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:02 am

You're doing it wrong... If you have t16 4 set and aoc and you don't see the difference in your dps i honestly have no idea what you're doing..

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Zstriker » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:35 am

cg1351 wrote:You're doing it wrong... If you have t16 4 set and aoc and you don't see the difference in your dps i honestly have no idea what you're doing..

I was compairing renataki high procs with aoc 2min one,
ofc 4 set gave dps boost over 1k more agility though
aoc have boost on t15 4set , on t16 not

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Tremnen » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:34 pm

Zstriker wrote:
cg1351 wrote:You're doing it wrong... If you have t16 4 set and aoc and you don't see the difference in your dps i honestly have no idea what you're doing..

I was compairing renataki high procs with aoc 2min one,
ofc 4 set gave dps boost over 1k more agility though
aoc have boost on t15 4set , on t16 not


you don't see how a lower cooldown tiger's fury wouldn't help your dps when you get 3 combo points every time you use tiger's fury?

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Zstriker » Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:19 am

are you reading before quoting?
T16(SoO set) not T15(ToT set)

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Ekthelion » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:47 am

Well, I think he gets it quite well.
Zstriker wrote:aoc have boost on t15 4set , on t16 not

You claim AoC is not boosting the T16, but it simply does.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Alpheus » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:12 am

Ekthelion wrote:Well, I think he gets it quite well.
Zstriker wrote:aoc have boost on t15 4set , on t16 not

You claim AoC is not boosting the T16, but it simply does.


Sorry guys but why is this even relevant? Bar for LFR, the T16 4set, when a attained, is going to have a higher ilvl than any T15 +4set resulting in more dps either way. Why does it matter which set bonuses scales more if one succeeds the other? As for AoC itself, its dps doesn't come from 4set-scaling alone but from its overall effect on our rotation, procs, etc. The only relevant metric in this case are sims with an intelligent APL.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby JTF195 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:00 pm

Zstriker wrote:are you reading before quoting?
T16(SoO set) not T15(ToT set)


Item - Druid T15 Feral 4P Bonus
After using Tiger's Fury, you gain 40% increased critical strike chance on the next 3 uses of Mangle, Shred, Ferocious Bite, Ravage, and Swipe.

Item - Druid T16 Feral 4P Bonus
After using Tiger's Fury, your next finishing move will restore 3 combo points on your current target after being used.

Assurance of Consequence
Equip: Increases the cooldown recovery rate of six of your major abilities by (31% min, 50% max). Effective for Agility-based damage roles only.

AoC decreases the CD on Tiger's Fury, allowing you to trigger EITHER set bonus more frequently.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Dysheki » Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:46 pm

Zstriker wrote:
More periodic Stampedeing roars while not necessarily a DPS gain for you can increase overral raid dps for those pesky casters who need to move quickly then sit and dps.

also not much use for melee, fights are mostly stationary

Use the range glyph and help out your ranged friends?
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Primalgore » Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:54 pm

Hey - with Berserk down to ~2min cooldown with AoC how should I be using troll racial when berserk is up and troll racial isn't? I'm guessing delaying Berserk until racial is back up defeats the purpose of the trinket in the first place, so should I be using racial on trinket procs or something instead? cheers

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby aggixx » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:22 am

Just macro it to TF instead of Berserk, that way it will still get used on cooldown and you still get the benefit of CD stacking.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Primalgore » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:12 am

ahh, makes sense. thanks for the help and fast reply :)

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