Register

Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Face-rippin fun.
Honored
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:05 am

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby RareBeast » Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:46 am

ShmooDude wrote:How far into the Rake does it tell you to rake repeatedly? The new Rake filler line is: NewTickDamage*(RemainingTicks+1) - OldTickDamage*RemainingTicks > MangleDamage. So if for example you're on your last tick (or two) of "uber" rake but you have a rune proc and one or two other buffs, the new rake could potentially hit hard enough to outshine the old rake + mangle.

The other potential issue is Ovale might be thinking you applied Rake too late into Renataki and/or Rune and discounted those buffs before saving the dot data. DF doesn't do this and so the ratios have the potential to be different. IMO Ovale is a bit too aggressive in removing buffs from dots but if you're try not to apply bleeds during the last half a second (that's the new default setting for the dropbox in the script as well), it should work fine.



Basically I rake right at the end of the trinket proc(s) and it recommends rake again pretty much straight away. Ovale thinking I was too late is certainly a possibility. I have the drop down in the options set to 0.5 sec which I though would compensate for me having old-man reflexes and also having crappy Australian ping but perhaps I should change this to a lower value. Do you think thay may help?

Revered
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby ShmooDude » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:03 am

RareBeast wrote:Basically I rake right at the end of the trinket proc(s) and it recommends rake again pretty much straight away. Ovale thinking I was too late is certainly a possibility. I have the drop down in the options set to 0.5 sec which I though would compensate for me having old-man reflexes and also having crappy Australian ping but perhaps I should change this to a lower value. Do you think thay may help?


Actually if anything you might need a higher value (which I can add). It takes the server a hundred milliseconds or so to send you buff info, another couple hundred for character stats and if you add that to your aussie latency, I could see 0.5 being too low for you, I might make it 0.3-1.0. Anything under 0.3 I don't think anyone should ever use (if anyone is using that or lower successfully let me know before I take it out, lol).

Honored
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:34 pm

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby Jeshu » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:49 am

ShmooDude wrote:Actually if anything you might need a higher value (which I can add). It takes the server a hundred milliseconds or so to send you buff info, another couple hundred for character stats and if you add that to your aussie latency, I could see 0.5 being too low for you, I might make it 0.3-1.0. Anything under 0.3 I don't think anyone should ever use (if anyone is using that or lower successfully let me know before I take it out, lol).


I'm curious if there's a way to set this type of fudge-factor in Ovale directly so that it isn't something you have to account for in-script, but instead makes it a global setting that would affect all types of time-interval comparisons. Just an idea to think about and perhaps create an Ovale ticket for.

I hesitate to call the fudge-factor "latency" because if you take a look at OvaleLatency, there's a measurement of the time involved in casting a spell and getting acknowledgement from the server that the spell was cast. The loop looks like this:

client --SENT--> server (processing) --SUCCEEDED--> client

and we take the difference between the times for the SENT and SUCCEEDED events as a measure of the network latency. Clearly, this assumes that server processing takes no time, which is obviously false, so this type of measurement always overestimates the network latency. The interesting part is that the server processing time is what I think is the fudge-factor I'm alluding to above.

I think it's possible to instrument the Ovale code to keep a running average of the measured latency as above and also a running average of the result of GetNetStats() and perhaps take the difference of the two as a rough estimate of the fudge-factor due to server processing.

Revered
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby ShmooDude » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:45 pm

Jeshu wrote:I'm curious if there's a way to set this type of fudge-factor in Ovale directly so that it isn't something you have to account for in-script, but instead makes it a global setting that would affect all types of time-interval comparisons. Just an idea to think about and perhaps create an Ovale ticket for.

I hesitate to call the fudge-factor "latency" because if you take a look at OvaleLatency, there's a measurement of the time involved in casting a spell and getting acknowledgement from the server that the spell was cast. The loop looks like this:

client --SENT--> server (processing) --SUCCEEDED--> client

and we take the difference between the times for the SENT and SUCCEEDED events as a measure of the network latency. Clearly, this assumes that server processing takes no time, which is obviously false, so this type of measurement always overestimates the network latency. The interesting part is that the server processing time is what I think is the fudge-factor I'm alluding to above.

I think it's possible to instrument the Ovale code to keep a running average of the measured latency as above and also a running average of the result of GetNetStats() and perhaps take the difference of the two as a rough estimate of the fudge-factor due to server processing.


Sounds like a reasonable way to go about it. Would hopefully cut down on ovale too aggressively not counting or counting buffs and that logic seems good.

As far as integrating this fudge factor... only if you have a database of all the buffs and what they do. That's what I do internally via the script. Currently if I won't be able to apply a bleed before reaching the fudge zone (either due to gcd or energy), I factor a buff out of the character's stats to know what kind of bleed is likely to be applied so that I don't suggest a rake if that rake isn't going to have the buff up by the time I can use it. Though there might be some things Ovale could do innately along those lines.

Honored
User avatar
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:15 pm

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby Cetlysm » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:19 pm

Alpheus wrote:
Cetlysm wrote:Using Leafkiller and its sometimes telling me to Rip with 5 cp and a doc with no procs while I have Rips with rune, renataki, DoC and even TF with at least 6 sec left.
Rune is procing mastery, and WA bleed ratio confirms that my current bleed is wayyy better.
I think it started to happen once I got set 4, even when feral rage is well above 6 sec left.


Is the icon "red"? If any of the action are red then that just indicates a delayed execution and sometimes it will shove in a reactionary thrash or FF. If you execute it immediately then it might be less optimal. The other thing I can think of is that you had perhaps low uptime on Savage Roar (like <7 seconds) and with the rip expiring Ovale figured you need a rip up now so you can start working towards that roar (otherwise both expire). It's hard to stay with this little context.

I haven't been paying much attention to the script lately but I'm almost sure it wasn't red and it just wanted me to rip now, and even if I had a low SR duration, I think keeping the super buffed rip tick completely is worth more than risking it drop for like 2 seconds while you build cps back for SR and then rip.
I'll check again if it happens again.
ImageImage

Honored
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:24 pm

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby inferiorlol » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:33 am

Cetlysm wrote:Using Leafkiller and its sometimes telling me to Rip with 5 cp and a doc with no procs while I have Rips with rune, renataki, DoC and even TF with at least 6 sec left.
Rune is procing mastery, and WA bleed ratio confirms that my current bleed is wayyy better.
I think it started to happen once I got set 4, even when feral rage is well above 6 sec left.


Sounds like what I wrote earlier and did not get an answer to. First rip is buffed by TF, RoR, Doc, second by only DoC and yet it wants to overwrite. : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npKKT0pcogk

You can see the ratio for the rake seems correct while the Rip one is 125 which seems to indicate that ovale has forgotten the strength of the last rip and put it as it was completely unbuffed which would give 125 with only a DoC.

Revered
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby ShmooDude » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:07 pm

inferiorlol wrote:
Cetlysm wrote:Using Leafkiller and its sometimes telling me to Rip with 5 cp and a doc with no procs while I have Rips with rune, renataki, DoC and even TF with at least 6 sec left.
Rune is procing mastery, and WA bleed ratio confirms that my current bleed is wayyy better.
I think it started to happen once I got set 4, even when feral rage is well above 6 sec left.


Sounds like what I wrote earlier and did not get an answer to. First rip is buffed by TF, RoR, Doc, second by only DoC and yet it wants to overwrite. : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npKKT0pcogk

You can see the ratio for the rake seems correct while the Rip one is 125 which seems to indicate that ovale has forgotten the strength of the last rip and put it as it was completely unbuffed which would give 125 with only a DoC.


There's 2 problems.

First, Rip doesn't always count the second DoC charge properly (which is why rip is 125 instead of 100). See: here I can't do anything about that except wait for it to be fixed in Ovale.

Second:
At 18 seconds into the video you're at 2 CP and 14% (meaning the rip on the target is strong as an equal rip would be 40%).
Shortly after you're at 3 CP and 56% when it should be 21% so somewhere in there it updated the bleed info with current stats (presumably).

As far as the second goes, I seem to have narrowed it down to Glyph of Shred (which I never use which is why I'd never seen it before I thought to test with it just now). I can fix this by switching how I call up the bleeds stats internally till Jeshu fixes the other version.

You can fix the second problem one of two ways. Don't use Glyph of Shred or use the script (which also has other stuff added to it like an aoe rotation) here until an official version is uploaded to nerien's. For the first, you'll just have to keep it in mind until it can be fixed in Ovale.

Honored
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:05 am

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby RareBeast » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:40 pm

Using the Ovale Bleed Ratios, sometimes they were sub 50% when it was recommending rake and there was still 8+ seconds left on the current one.

Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:28 am

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby ossacip » Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:49 am

Hiho and good morning,

I like the leafkiller script - but I am missing one function...I used Nerien script before and this is showing, when I am able to interrupt as an Guardian.
Is it possible, to insert this funktion into leafkiller? I tried to copy and paste some lines from nerien to leafkiller's script, but it was not working, so I need the help from profis^^

Thank you

Sry, for my realy bad english, but I hope, you understand, what I like to have ^^


Bye Ossa

Revered
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby ShmooDude » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:01 pm

RareBeast wrote:Using the Ovale Bleed Ratios, sometimes they were sub 50% when it was recommending rake and there was still 8+ seconds left on the current one.


That's probably the end of Rune line that will refresh Rake in the last 1.5 seconds on rune regardless of the current bleed ratio. Probably should add some sort of cutoff so it doesn't overwrite significantly more powerful bleeds similar to the rip version of the line.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 862
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:15 am

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby raffy » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:55 pm

This kind of clipping, where you're downgrading an existing DoT because the expected refresh (in few seconds) is an even bigger loss, is very difficult.

Say you have a 5x (relative to normal) Rake going, do you clip it early with a 4x? Or wait 6 seconds and get stuck with a 1x refresh (after everything has faded.) The same situation with different damage -- clipping a 2x with a 1.5x -- feels wrong even though ratio-wise: 2/1.5 > 5/4.

I'm pretty sure the only way to solve this properly is to generate a distribution of what procs are possible (and how frequently they occur) and use that information to decide when early downgrading should be used.

I use similar logic in Catus to trigger FoN automatically: I simulate a few hours of combat, sampling the damage FoN Rake would do every 1sec. I then compute the maximum FoN damage I could do, in a sliding 60sec window, and generate a frequency distribution. From there, I can figure out the threshold at which it's worth it to use FoN, and then sit around waiting for those procs to fade, and pull the trigger before they expire. In practice, this translates to "wait for trinket fades" but this kind of logic works regardless of what trinkets you're using (if any) and across various item levels of gear.

Rake is a bit more difficult because there is no cooldown (and benefits from more things like DoC, TF, NV, etc...). But I'd imagine that above a certain threshold clipping Rake early (before catastrophic proc fades occur, like 9.5sec after the opener) is a considerable DPS gain. Maybe there is some simple heuristic, something like (Existing Rake Power)^X / (New Rake Power) where X > 1, which makes it so the higher the damage, the more relative DPS loss is accepted, making 5^X/4 > 2^X/1.5.
Code: Select all
X=1.0: (5^1.0)/4 = 1.25, (2^1.0)/1.5 = 1.333 // nope
X=1.5: (5^1.5)/4 = 2.79, (2^1.5)/1.5 = 1.885 // yep

However, clipping far before a proc fades would be an obivous DPS loss, so it requires some kind of generic lookahead analysis, rather than just checking if Rune (or whatever) is expiring.

(Note: I computed my ratios in reverse "how much more is my Rake currently doing" vs "how much less will my new Rake be doing" but they're effectively the same.)

Revered
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby ShmooDude » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:28 pm

@raffy
Yeah, ultimately that's probably the way to go. For now though adding RakeRatio>75 to the end of rune line seems to be ~100 dps up.

Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby Gynaecology » Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:36 pm

Are there any plans of adding the AoE rotation into Nerien's Ovale Scripts?

Revered
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby ShmooDude » Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:54 pm

Gynaecology wrote:Are there any plans of adding the AoE rotation into Nerien's Ovale Scripts?


Yes. I have it done; just waiting on aggixx to verify there's no obvious bugs and then to upload it. If you don't mind trying a "beta" version, you can copy/paste my current script from here: http://pastebin.com/1XUWxeJZ

Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby Gynaecology » Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:44 pm

Just doing a quick test, I found one issue. Could be operator error, but it was telling me to Swipe > Ferocious Bite >Swipe > Ferocious bite repeatedly on target dummies. Although, once Thrash came back around in the priority, it stopped doing this.

Revered
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby ShmooDude » Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:53 pm

Gynaecology wrote:Just doing a quick test, I found one issue. Could be operator error, but it was telling me to Swipe > Ferocious Bite >Swipe > Ferocious bite repeatedly on target dummies. Although, once Thrash came back around in the priority, it stopped doing this.


Make sure the training dummy you're targeting has either 1 or a crap ton of health. The 5 health training dummies (which are for testing execute rotations I'm guessing) do wacky things with any TimeToDie conditionals (since a mob at one health should pretty much be expected to die in the next hit) and will give incorrect suggestions.

Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby Gynaecology » Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:55 pm

That totally slipped my mind. It was the one healthers, so it was just repeatedly telling me to execute it. It seems to be working well otherwise.

Edit: I take that back. It seems to be happening on the boss dummies also. It's only happening during Berserk. If it makes a difference, I'm using only 2-piece T15 (Currently mainswitching from WW Monk, so I'm still trying to grab gear from alt raids).

Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:38 pm

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby kcinham » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:50 pm

Hey all! Want to say I've been using Ovale with these different scripts ever since I raided in Cata (raided with rogue in mop). Recently came back from a 9mo hiatus and noticed as i was in LFR the other night, that Ovale kept suggesting rake over and over again. I've tried searching for if rake > shred/mangle and I was only able to find a few posts that stated that energy/damage cost rake was better to use. But to the point where it constantly tells me to rake over and over? It rarely, if ever right now suggests a mangle/shred to do. Anyway, thanks again for the script and just wanted to clarify if anything changed in terms of rotation since I last raided with my druid. Thanks for the help!

Revered
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby ShmooDude » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:23 pm

kcinham wrote:Hey all! Want to say I've been using Ovale with these different scripts ever since I raided in Cata (raided with rogue in mop). Recently came back from a 9mo hiatus and noticed as i was in LFR the other night, that Ovale kept suggesting rake over and over again. I've tried searching for if rake > shred/mangle and I was only able to find a few posts that stated that energy/damage cost rake was better to use. But to the point where it constantly tells me to rake over and over? It rarely, if ever right now suggests a mangle/shred to do. Anyway, thanks again for the script and just wanted to clarify if anything changed in terms of rotation since I last raided with my druid. Thanks for the help!


If you're not DoC, it will suggest rake quite a lot but it shouldn't always suggest rake (wasn't quite clear on which you were seeing). It suggests rake anytime rake will produce more damage than mangle which is at very high attack power (some trinkets) or high mastery (rune of re-origination, or maybe a mastery proc trinket if you're still using one of those).

Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:38 pm

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby kcinham » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:10 pm

If you're not DoC, it will suggest rake quite a lot but it shouldn't always suggest rake (wasn't quite clear on which you were seeing). It suggests rake anytime rake will produce more damage than mangle which is at very high attack power (some trinkets) or high mastery (rune of re-origination, or maybe a mastery proc trinket if you're still using one of those).


Thanks Shmoo! Yeah currently am talented into HoTW, my gear is still sucky as I just came back so grabbed a bunch of Timeless Isle stuff and a couple of ToT LFR drops. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/n ... s/advanced

That helps clear things up though that I'm not going crazy by seeing so many rakes when last time I raided with druid, it was all about shredding, haha. Thanks!

Honored
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:05 am

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby RareBeast » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:20 pm

I'm still having issues here. Ovales rake ratio says something like 28% and it recommends spamming rake (so it isn't just clipping). I use DroodFocus icons showing various buffs (trinkets, capacitance & dancing steel) and the only buff I had at the time was 4 stacks of capacitance.

I have been using the droodfocus icons to get my rake/rip/thrash in before they expire so I am pretty sure they are properly buffed (and Ovale seems to think they are as shown by the bleed ratios) so I am really at a loss as to what is going on. Using heroic TF Rentakis, normal rune, HotW & SotF. Problem seems to only be with rake, not with thrash or rip.

Revered
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby ShmooDude » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:55 am

RareBeast wrote:I'm still having issues here. Ovales rake ratio says something like 28% and it recommends spamming rake (so it isn't just clipping). I use DroodFocus icons showing various buffs (trinkets, capacitance & dancing steel) and the only buff I had at the time was 4 stacks of capacitance.

I have been using the droodfocus icons to get my rake/rip/thrash in before they expire so I am pretty sure they are properly buffed (and Ovale seems to think they are as shown by the bleed ratios) so I am really at a loss as to what is going on. Using heroic TF Rentakis, normal rune, HotW & SotF. Problem seems to only be with rake, not with thrash or rip.


Can you record it and upload it to youtube? That helped me track down the Glyph of Shred bug and would help me see if I can figure out what's going on.

Honored
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:05 am

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby RareBeast » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:47 pm

I'll see if I can. I got a warforged Haromm's last night which will replace my heroic TF Rentakis so that may change things as well.

Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:15 pm

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby Baes » Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:02 am

Thank you so much for such an amazing script!

I have a question however, when I am in cat specc I have "hide predictive box" checked - as I like to see only one icon. However when I change into my secondary guardian spec - there appears to be two icons and there is no "hide predictive box" option. Is there anyway to get that option working/implemented for guardian as well?

Also, if right clicked for menu while in guardian, there appears to be an empty option, that when clicked - doesn't seem to do anything.

thank you so much in advance!
Baes.

P.S: "Alternate predictive box" creates one icon and two small ones beside it. This doesn't work with rest of my carefully put together UI, I just need one icon :) Thanks!

Revered
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Leafkiller's MoP Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Postby ShmooDude » Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:23 pm

Latest Beta Version: http://pastebin.com/MLQGChP2

RareBeast wrote:I'll see if I can. I got a warforged Haromm's last night which will replace my heroic TF Rentakis so that may change things as well.

Aggixx helped me figure out where the problem was so it should be fixed (try out the beta version above).

Baes wrote:I have a question however, when I am in cat specc I have "hide predictive box" checked - as I like to see only one icon. However when I change into my secondary guardian spec - there appears to be two icons and there is no "hide predictive box" option. Is there anyway to get that option working/implemented for guardian as well?

Also, if right clicked for menu while in guardian, there appears to be an empty option, that when clicked - doesn't seem to do anything.


Also fixed, as far as the "empty checkbox" its for something that is used in cat but not bear (but still places the empty icons in guardian so positioning doesn't change), I simply added a guardian version so text shows up that says "Don't change in Guardian" so people know not to screw with it there.

PreviousNext

Return to Kitty DPS

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests