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Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby Alpheus » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:17 am

Has anyone considered trying to change the order of Rip -> CP to CP -> Rip in the APL when Feral Rage is available for use (T16 4set)? It's mostly caused when rip and roar have synced durations and TF will expire sometime in the 0-6second-left window. I had this happen a lot last night and I couldn't decide whether to roar->rip or FB->rip (since it's near-instant 2x 5CPs) since I was easily energy capping while doing so.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby inferiorlol » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:07 am

For the Hotw profile you can squeeze out a little bit of extra damage by prepull talenting DoC casting HT and then talent back to HotW. The buff is not removed on swapping talents.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby raffy » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:23 pm

@Inferiorlol: while that might be a gain, I'd probably want to shoot myself after doing that on every pull :p. Change Talent, Cast HT, Change Talent, Symbiosis, Pull, Potion, ...

@Alpheus: I don't understand what you are suggesting -- what kind of a change would you make?

Are you talking about the opener? I've experimented with using FB and/or SR as my first finisher during Heroic Malkorok progression. It's super tight (1 parry from a random spin and gg) but it felt viable. I typically get a DoC'd replacement Rip up before the 10sec is over anyway, but it depends heavily on crits and the alignment of my SR`0 cast. If I didn't have to cast Faerie Fire, I feel like I could do it 100% of the time. If you don't SR, you'll end up SR`0'ing again after Rune fades. I'll add both of these as opener options in Catus tonight.

I think Thrash needs work: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4725
Is aggressive Thrash a DPS loss relative to just clearcast Thrash in Simc too?
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby ShmooDude » Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:14 pm

raffy wrote:I think Thrash needs work: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4725
Is aggressive Thrash a DPS loss relative to just clearcast Thrash in Simc too?


I tried a few things in catus, but I got no more than a 200 DPS gain in my current gear so nothing really significant.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby raffy » Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:31 pm

I just wanted to make sure that the current recommendation isn't to maintain high Thrash uptime on single-target, since there doesn't appear to be any advantage in the Patchwerk sims. ~50% uptime with Clearcast-only vs. ~80% uptime with Aggressive (Use Thrash in Catus). Even if it was identical, I'd always choose the simpler option. Less energy spent on Thrash means more combos/finishers. Maybe it varies with HotW/DoC and/or different gemming (like Yellow mode), but for most combinations I try, Clearcast-only as the best. I'd imagine there are other times too (lots of procs active) but I don't have that as an ez-mode option.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby ShmooDude » Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:39 am

raffy wrote:I just wanted to make sure that the current recommendation isn't to maintain high Thrash uptime on single-target, since there doesn't appear to be any advantage in the Patchwerk sims. ~50% uptime with Clearcast-only vs. ~80% uptime with Aggressive (Use Thrash in Catus). Even if it was identical, I'd always choose the simpler option. Less energy spent on Thrash means more combos/finishers. Maybe it varies with HotW/DoC and/or different gemming (like Yellow mode), but for most combinations I try, Clearcast-only as the best. I'd imagine there are other times too (lots of procs active) but I don't have that as an ez-mode option.


That also depends on how "good" you are at using clearcast on thrash. Me for example, not so much. I know there's a .react but I think that's too generous for some.

Just as a test, I ran 4 sims in my current gear/spec (HotW+SotF):

No Thrash at all: 311.2k
Clearcast only: 317.8k
Use Thrash: 318.0k
Use but no Clearcast: 315.9k

So really, it depends on how effective you are at capitalizing on Clearcast procs. To me, the "simpler" rotation out of these is the Use but no Clearcast thrash (ie use thrash, try to use in clearcast, but if you don't do it well, its still a dps up). But its going to depend on the player. But that's also from an ovale point of view (it lets me know when its ok to thrash). Someone doing it without might not agree.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby Alpheus » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:18 am

raffy wrote:Are you talking about the opener? I've experimented with using FB and/or SR as my first finisher during Heroic Malkorok progression. It's super tight (1 parry from a random spin and gg) but it felt viable. I typically get a DoC'd replacement Rip up before the 10sec is over anyway, but it depends heavily on crits and the alignment of my SR`0 cast. If I didn't have to cast Faerie Fire, I feel like I could do it 100% of the time. If you don't SR, you'll end up SR`0'ing again after Rune fades. I'll add both of these as opener options in Catus tonight.


Well at times when both Rip and Roar will run out within 1sec the APL will try to squeeze in a rip before roar expires to avoid extensive downtime, but with the 4set it's perfectly valid to do roar first and then go to rip asap off of the 3combo head start from the 4set. I was just thinking whether this logic could be generalized for most of our finishers. And no, this isn't for opening.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby raffy » Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:09 pm

@Alpheus: ah now I understand, I'll check that out when I have a chance.

Thrash Update
Can you guys recheck the Thrash stuff with Catus v25? I had a bug with RPPM/ICD reset which I think caused the Thrash issue. "Use Thrash" appears to win once again.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby ShmooDude » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:10 pm

Numbers are defiantly different (not 100% sure its the same settings but I think so, turned on/off noob mode to reset all the settings since my character didn't load after the update) but didn't really change the clearcast vs use for me.

Numbers in (DPS Uptime) are from simcraft.

No Thrash at all: 334.9k (338.7k - 0%)
Clearcast only: 342.4k (342.7k - 30%)
Use Thrash: 342.2k (346.5k - 85%)
*Use Thrash and clip early at end of Rune: 342.5k (347.0k - 86%)
Use but no Clearcast: 340.0k (345.9k - 83%)

*Included the rune clip one as its something that you haven't put in catus that's in the simc action list, though its a fairly minor difference so probably doesn't matter too much).

In Simc, Use Thrash is a pretty clear up. Looks like the difference is you're getting way more thrashes off with catus's clearcast thrash than simc is. I only get 9.1 Thrashes in Simc to 15.7 in catus in "Clearcast" Only. However, I get 25.8 Thrashes in Simc to 24.0 in Catus in "Use Thrash" (+0.6 to both if you add the clip early at end of Rune)

The other thing of note is Catus is using significantly more Rake fillers (I assume fillers anyhow) than Simc is (71.1 total rakes vs 105.5). This likely also accounts for less thrashes in the "Use Thrash" in catus as we're clipping rake more often. If I had to guess, Catus is the more accurate in this case because Simc doesn't account for crit when comparing damage so Simc probably low in rake usage (and wierdly enough, accounting for it in Simc is a dps downgrade...). Most everything else seems to be pretty close in terms of usage amount.

EDIT: One last difference is your clearcast thrash line requires rake to be ticking. Taking that out results in ~0.2 more Thrash usages. Not sure which is better.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby raffy » Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:38 pm

Thanks Shmoo. All settings should be the same, I just changed something internally. When "Noob Mode" is disabled, there's a "Recommended Effects" button visible in the Encounter pane (I didn't know where else to put it) which is equivalent to toggling "Noob Mode".

I'll look into the "Use Thrash" discrepancy. The Rune logic is missing because I wanted to remove trinket-specific logic and replace it with rake_power, rip_power, thrash_power, etc.. logic but never got around to it.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby Cyc » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:05 pm

Alpheus wrote:Well at times when both Rip and Roar will run out within 1sec the APL will try to squeeze in a rip before roar expires to avoid extensive downtime, but with the 4set it's perfectly valid to do roar first and then go to rip asap off of the 3combo head start from the 4set. I was just thinking whether this logic could be generalized for most of our finishers. And no, this isn't for opening.


Got my 4pc last week. After raiding this week I am wondering the same thing.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby inferiorlol » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:42 am

Have anyone investigated anything about hardcasting HT mid fight? I had a scenario yesterday on Thok and he was at 25% both my trinkets procced but I didn't have DoC buff for my BitW Rip. Thinking back on it, it must have made sense for me to just hardcast a HT in that situation to give a bit extra juice to my Rip since it will be up on the boss for so long.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby Paloro » Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:31 pm

inferiorlol wrote:Have anyone investigated anything about hardcasting HT mid fight? I had a scenario yesterday on Thok and he was at 25% both my trinkets procced but I didn't have DoC buff for my BitW Rip. Thinking back on it, it must have made sense for me to just hardcast a HT in that situation to give a bit extra juice to my Rip since it will be up on the boss for so long.


As long as you will still have time to shift back into cat and get up Rip, it will definitely be worth it.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby inferiorlol » Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:37 pm

Paloro wrote:
inferiorlol wrote:Have anyone investigated anything about hardcasting HT mid fight? I had a scenario yesterday on Thok and he was at 25% both my trinkets procced but I didn't have DoC buff for my BitW Rip. Thinking back on it, it must have made sense for me to just hardcast a HT in that situation to give a bit extra juice to my Rip since it will be up on the boss for so long.


As long as you will still have time to shift back into cat and get up Rip, it will definitely be worth it.


Yeah, but my example was like the most extreme possible. What if you don't have trinket procs? What if you have not just entered the BitW phase. Does it mostly make sense to hardcast a HT before what would else be a non DoC rip or is it very rarely it is useful etc etc? I guess on a patchwerk fight basically all Rips will be DoC buffed but in reality bosses move and you target switch etc etc.

I guess in general my question is:

You are at 5 CP without a DoC buff and want to cast Rip. Under what conditions does it make sense to hardcast a HT before Ripping.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:24 pm

Outside of your extreme situation (ie a once a fight thing) all attempts previous to sim hardcasting HT for DoC charges is a DPS loss. I would expect even more so now then previously. This is because of the much higher gear levels and current 4p bonus leave a lot less down time in the rotation then at the start (or even mid ToT).

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby bacevicius » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:11 pm

can someone that has the new ovale and 5.4.3.1 leafkiller explain why its suggesting rip spamming when theres more than 3/4ths of the rip still ticking with no new trinkets going off... I have 536 RoR and AOC when neither is active it still suggests rip refresh with more than 6 to 10 secons left on it instead of FB

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby Tremnen » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:44 am

Maybe Tiger's Fury + Dancing Steel?

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby Tremnen » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:50 am

inferiorlol wrote:
Paloro wrote:
inferiorlol wrote:I guess in general my question is:

You are at 5 CP without a DoC buff and want to cast Rip. Under what conditions does it make sense to hardcast a HT before Ripping.


I think the only real world answer to this is when you wont be able to damage the boss for several seconds anyways.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby ShmooDude » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:46 am

bacevicius wrote:can someone that has the new ovale and 5.4.3.1 leafkiller explain why its suggesting rip spamming when theres more than 3/4ths of the rip still ticking with no new trinkets going off... I have 536 RoR and AOC when neither is active it still suggests rip refresh with more than 6 to 10 secons left on it instead of FB


Don't use the alpha/beta versions of ovale. Revert back to 5.4.8.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby bacevicius » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:46 pm

yep that was it. Ovale alpha was causing the no FB's to show and rip spamming. Thnx

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby Alpheus » Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:43 pm

Has someone made the advanced rotation the default in our APL? I've seen an unexpected bump on all feral druids on wowprogress and was wondering if it's that or something unrelated.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby aggixx » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:19 pm

Doesn't look like it to me.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby aggixx » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:22 pm

Current WoD Alpha script:
Spoiler: show
# Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only.

actions.precombat=flask,type=spring_blossoms
actions.precombat+=/food,type=sea_mist_rice_noodles
actions.precombat+=/mark_of_the_wild,if=!aura.str_agi_int.up
actions.precombat+=/cat_form
actions.precombat+=/prowl
# Snapshot raid buffed stats before combat begins and pre-potting is done.
actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats
actions.precombat+=/virmens_bite_potion

# Executed every time the actor is available.

actions=ravage,if=buff.prowl.up&active_enemies=1
actions+=/auto_attack
# Keep Rip from falling off during execute range.
actions+=/ferocious_bite,cycle_targets=1,if=dot.rip.ticking&dot.rip.remains<=3&target.health.pct<=25
actions+=/faerie_fire,cycle_targets=1,if=debuff.physical_vulnerability.down
actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.savage_roar.remains<3
actions+=/virmens_bite_potion,if=target.time_to_die<=40
actions+=/tigers_fury,if=energy<=35&!buff.omen_of_clarity.react
actions+=/berserk,if=buff.tigers_fury.up
actions+=/virmens_bite_potion,sync=berserk,if=target.health.pct<25
actions+=/use_item,slot=hands,if=buff.tigers_fury.up
actions+=/berserking,if=buff.tigers_fury.up
actions+=/rip,cycle_targets=1,if=dot.rip.remains<2&combo_points>=5
actions+=/rip,cycle_targets=1,if=(target.health.pct<25|dot.rip.remains<4.8)&combo_points>=5&action.rip.tick_multiplier>dot.rip.multiplier
actions+=/thrash_cat,if=dot.thrash_cat.remains<4.5
actions+=/rip,cycle_targets=1,if=dot.rip.remains<4.8&combo_points>=5&energy.time_to_max<=1
actions+=/ferocious_bite,if=energy.time_to_max<=1&dot.rip.remains>=4
actions+=/rake,cycle_targets=1,if=dot.rake.remains<3|(active_enemies>1&dot.rake.remains<4.5)
actions+=/rake,cycle_targets=1,if=action.rake.tick_multiplier>dot.rake.multiplier
actions+=/run_action_list,name=filler,if=combo_points<5
actions+=/faerie_fire,cycle_targets=1,if=debuff.physical_vulnerability.remains>0

actions.filler=pool_resource,for_next=1
actions.filler+=/ravage
actions.filler+=/pool_resource,for_next=1
actions.filler+=/swipe,if=active_enemies>1
actions.filler+=/rake,if=action.rake.hit_damage>=action.shred.hit_damage
actions.filler+=/shred

This is not optimized; there's still a couple things I know I'm missing, just don't have time at this exact moment. I'll be pushing this APL into the WoD branch when I have time, as well.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby aggixx » Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:26 pm

I've just committed the action list with SimulationCraft, so if you import your character using WoD branch SimC then it will generate an action list for you.

If anyone is interested in toying around with it, I've finished implemented more or less everything for feral, although there's a few important things to note:
  • Gear is scaled down but gems and enchants are not. This is a blizzard issue, so until they lower the budget of these items having them on your character will inflate the hell out of your stats. I recommend removing all of them if you want any valuable information. Also note that if you have a Rune of Re-Origination, you probably want to use a different trinket since your stats will be all messed up from not having any gems, enchants, or reforges.
  • Lunar Inspiration is partially implemented but will currently not work due to a bug. All of the other level 100 talents are implemented (character must be of appropriate level to use them).
  • Draenor Perks are given in their entirety to any character of level 91 or higher.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

Postby Jeshu » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:32 pm

Question on SimC action list syntax: what is the difference between run_action_list and swap_action_list? Does run_action_list always return to the flow of the calling script?

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