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4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

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4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Darkhoof » Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:43 am

ohh yeah, we wanted it, it seemed we got it:

...and a druid staff that drops off one of raid's other bosses that transforms the wielder into a molten cat...


sauce(cause its delicious)

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Mihir » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:04 am

so no legendary for ferals i guess

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Darkhoof » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:15 am

Mihir wrote:so no legendary for ferals i guess


i dont know.. that staff sounds kinda legendady :P perhaps not by stats or color, but if it transforms us to a firecat thats kinda legendary ;)

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Sylvaneart » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:23 am

Pretty sure they said the legendary will be a caster staff. In the interview today on MMO they said it would proc offense so healers wouldn't want it. But cool staffs are still cool. Especially since we havn't had a legendary since OG naxx.
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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Darkhoof » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:42 am

Sylvaneart wrote:Pretty sure they said the legendary will be a caster staff. In the interview today on MMO they said it would proc offense so healers wouldn't want it. But cool staffs are still cool. Especially since we havn't had a legendary since OG naxx.


i dont mean literaly legendary(as in orange) but legendary as pretty f'ing badass ;)

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:16 pm

It is highly unlikely that we will ever see a Legendary staff that we can use. If it is a tanking Legendary that they make work, then Feral DPS can use it which is unfair (in their minds). If its a dps Legendary then Feral tanks can use it...back to that whole unfair thing. At Bizzcon 2009 at a panel with Greg Street and Chris Metzen it was asked if Tanks would ever get a Legendary and the response was, "While we would love to have something like that it becomes very difficult to balance. You don't want to balance the encounter around assuming your tank has that weapon (or what ever), but we don't want to make such an importent roll to OP either. It might not ever happen."

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby shinryu » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:55 pm

lmao, I totally called fire cat form...

Watch now, our stupid base form will override it >.>

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Sylvaneart » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:47 pm

OK i see in the article you linked hwere it says about the firecat staff but I can't find anything else besides this guy saying there will be one.
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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Sylvaneart » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:38 pm

Nevermind i went back and re-watched the blizzcast 16 it is at 9:55
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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby felhoof » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:07 pm

What's interesting is that the implication is that you can go into all his feral forms.

Which means fire cat...and fire SCORPION. Which I'd think would be a tank form.

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Sylvaneart » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:56 pm

Proc 1 could be while in cat form. All your abilities stay the same but on proc you take the form of a Magma Cat. When you strike an enemy with direct damage or get struck it puts a burn dot on target.

Proc 2 could be while in Bear form. Once again all abilities stay the same but on proc you take the form of a scorpion. Increasing armor by X and direct damage attacks would add a poison dot.

These arn't that far fetched just look at DBW from ICC. 3 random procs.
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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Sylvaneart » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:58 pm

To be honest I would take this thing even if it was an on use thing that was cosmetic only. Fire Scorpion strolling through SW.
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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby felhoof » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:04 pm

The way he described it it sounded like you could use the staff to turn into those things at will. I had originally thought that occasionally HUGE FIREY CAT STOP CLAWING FACE IT BURNS AND ITCHES AAAAA AAAAAA but it sounds like it's going to be largely cosmetic.

Which I'm grateful for, because it means you can likely switch weapons, use it, and then switch back and still be firey cat of awesome.

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby shinryu » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:53 pm

I'm just praying it comes with a "Druid only" tag on it...last thing we need is a lame ass huntard winning it >.>

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Arctagon » Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:13 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:"While we would love to have something like that it becomes very difficult to balance. You don't want to balance the encounter around assuming your tank has that weapon (or what ever), but we don't want to make such an importent roll to OP either. It might not ever happen."

Considering legendary weapons always make someone OP, that's an outright shitty excuse. Might as well remove legendaries entirely from the game.

shinryu wrote:I'm just praying it comes with a "Druid only" tag on it...last thing we need is a lame ass huntard winning it >.>

It just wouldn't fit if anyone else could use it. I certainly hope it will be restricted to druids.

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:37 pm

Arctagon wrote:Considering legendary weapons always make someone OP, that's an outright shitty excuse. Might as well remove legendaries entirely from the game.

They make several someones OP. They have never released a legendary that only 1 class can use. If you bring up the bow, both rogues and warriors could use it, and hunters complained it wasn't good enough to count as a legendary.

The thing is tank balance is something Blizzard has tried very hard to keep equal. I know they have never hit the mark before perfect, but they are trying. If you gives tanks a legendary weapon or chest (as suggested by some), the feral druid will be able to use it for DPS. Even if there was a tank proc on it it would still be the best weapon that a DPS feral would have access too. Because only 1 DPS class can use it people will cry foul. Same goes if they make a Staff only Hunters and Druids can use. Suddenly all the guilds will be giving Feral tanks the Legendary and the other 3 tank classes will bitch and complain. Because only 1 class in the game can use 1 weapon for 2 rolls Feral druids will always be denided a Legendary.

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby CaptainCub » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:55 am

Tinderhoof wrote: Suddenly all the guilds will be giving Feral tanks the Legendary and the other 3 tank classes will bitch and complain.


Why would they give it to Feral tanks? Damage scaling is higher on a dps spec than on a tanking spec, so guilds would be incentivized to give it to a hunter or a feral cat before considering their Feral tank and if anything it would just make bears generate marginally more threat than the other tanking classes, which I don't think is that game breaking since their mitigation and avoidance won't greatly benefit from it. If they put static armor on the staff, it'd be a whole different ball game.

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby shinryu » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:17 am

Well to be fair, did anyone bitch about DKs potentially using Shadowmourne for tanking? Why not, 3 sockets with pure Stamina plus the beefy stats and proc for more threat? Kind of a double standard if they're worried about a bear being able to use a legendary as a cat as well...

Honestly, they should just make legendaries so you can choose what flavor you'd like; anyone remember Ateish had 4 different versions depending on the spec? Or maybe something akin to the Quel'Delar line...I mean I understand that legendaries are supposed to be rare and exclusive, but the fact they screw over quite a few specs repeatedly is stupid without giving them their turn in the sun. Like with this staff, is it really that hard to make it so if used by a hunter or feral the int turns into agil and adjust the proc a bit so that it deals wit Atk instead of Int or whatever it may be? Or hell, how about instead of making Shadowmourne another sickening axe (god I was so sick of axes considering that was about the best weapon in each major raid), why not a polearm that had its str turn into agil when used by a hunter or feral? I mean, there's easily ways they could make legendaries accessible to more specs, but for whatever dumb reason, they don't.

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Tinderhoof » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:08 pm

CaptainCub wrote:Why would they give it to Feral tanks? Damage scaling is higher on a dps spec than on a tanking spec, so guilds would be incentivized to give it to a hunter or a feral cat before considering their Feral tank and if anything it would just make bears generate marginally more threat than the other tanking classes, which I don't think is that game breaking since their mitigation and avoidance won't greatly benefit from it. If they put static armor on the staff, it'd be a whole different ball game.

Having armor would surely make it a game breaking (hence why they took it out in Ulduar). However Feral tanks #1 stat is agility. Having several ilvl's higher then other tanks allotment of the best primary stat would make a big difference not only in threat but our #2 stat dodge not to mention reforging stats. Because Bears use almost the exact same stats as cats for dps (dodge being the only exception) unlike all 3 of the other classes it gives them a sizable leg up both in threat and survivalablity. With the 4.1 changes it is even easier for a bear in a progression spec to do amazing damage when not tanking, or in a 1 tank fight can go dps. No other tank can use the same weapon + gems + enchangts to swap to dps. DK's can be close, but still use different enchants.

shinryu wrote:Well to be fair, did anyone bitch about DKs potentially using Shadowmourne for tanking? Why not, 3 sockets with pure Stamina plus the beefy stats and proc for more threat? Kind of a double standard if they're worried about a bear being able to use a legendary as a cat as well...

Some people bitched, but if you recall back then DK's still needed to stack defense up to a cap, and secondary stats still played a much bigger deal in a plate tank living then they do now. Also a different enchant was (and still is required) for tanking and DPS. For DK's there were always better options for a tank weapon over Shadows Edge and it was close to Shadowmourne.

Even now only Ferals use the same gems (40 agi) and the same enchant (130 agi) between tanking and DPS on weapons.

shinryu wrote:I mean, there's easily ways they could make legendaries accessible to more specs, but for whatever dumb reason, they don't.

Every legendary with the exception of the Sunwell bow had a story or a theme to it that required a lot of people working to get (even Illidan's weapons took a lot of effort and luck). In this case said epic staff is centerened around the blue dragon flight (MAGIC). Taking the theme away from a legendary so that "Everyone gets a turn at the same time" defeats the whole point of it being special. Using Ateish as an example isn't a very good one of stat spreading. While it had 4 versions I highly doubt a druid ever saw one. The only reason we were ever brought to a raid in vanilla (espessially Naxx) was to innervate the real healers and Brez someone. Naxx was out for such a short time and so few guilds actually finished a staff at all let alone cleared the place.

Do you think I like knowing that my spec will never get a shot at a legendary because of our odd design? No, but I know that it would be game breaking if we got one.

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby CaptainCub » Sun May 01, 2011 7:38 am

It would not be game breaking for two reasons you omitted: one, very few bears actually gem pure agility and I don't feel that much more powerful when switching out a stamina trinket for an agility one and two, the Vengeance mechanic works and stacks differently across the tanking classes and accounts for much in threat differences.

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Tinderhoof » Sun May 01, 2011 2:28 pm

CaptainCub wrote:It would not be game breaking for two reasons you omitted: one, very few bears actually gem pure agility and I don't feel that much more powerful when switching out a stamina trinket for an agility one and two, the Vengeance mechanic works and stacks differently across the tanking classes and accounts for much in threat differences.

Yes bears do not stack FULL agility. However progression bears who would be getting said Legendary do stack mostly agi. Reesi is a perfect example of a bear that has completed all relevent content (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/doomhammer/reesi/advanced). While she hasn't stacked full agi, she only has 3 Agi/Stam gems to get socket bonuses, and 2 agi/dodge to get the meta activated. So ya not full agi, but 80% of her gem stats are Agi. While you might not "feel" all that more powerfull it does make a difference.

Vengence actually does work exactly the same for every tank class because it is the exact same mechanic. Now how tanks use AP is different between all classes, and each has their own methods of getting and keeping threat, but Vengence is the same, and stacks the same. "Vengeance Passive:
Each time you take damage, you gain 5% of the damage taken as attack power, up to a maximum of 10% of your health." I know warriors can stack it slightly faster if there is a second tank taking damage with Vigilance on him, but it still caps at the same level (10% of total health) as every other tank.

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Sylvaneart » Sun May 01, 2011 4:21 pm

But tender Sejta(paragon) still goes full stam. Hard to argue aginst world 1st.
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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby felhoof » Mon May 02, 2011 5:14 am

But tender Sejta(paragon) still goes full stam. Hard to argue aginst world 1st.
It's actually really easy to argue against world first: if you're not surrounded by players that play constantly, take weeks off for progression and are some of the best players on the planet, chances are the strategies that worked for Paragon aren't going to work for you.

specifically, Paragon is answering a very specific set of problems - namely, how to do bosses with as little gear as humanly possible. For them, it makes sense to go stamina.

For most other guilds it does not, at least not past a certain point.

Also, keep in mind that top guild does not mean top theorycrafter. Just because a guild happens to do it one way doesn't tend to mean that that's optimal. It just means it works for them. Most top guilds aren't that because they eek out the last iota of performance; it's because they learn fast, they communicate well, they play well at a baseline and they don't give up. None of these things have to do with gemming.

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby CaptainCub » Mon May 02, 2011 2:34 pm

What I meant was the way vengeance stacks is gear dependent: the more damage you take, the faster it stacks. Sejta for instance will potentially get more vengeance AP than Reesi although she has a gear which, on paper should allow her to deal much more damage and generate more threat.

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Qbear » Thu May 05, 2011 11:43 pm

How you gem is wildly dependent on the fights your engaged in. Sejta gems full stam due to not knowing anything about the fights when he first walks in. Most of the damage your scared of comes from spells. Not to mention a lot of the fights he entered, he was very under geared for. Now that he's nice and geared so our his healers. Those 372 geared healers can heal a bear gemmed all parry in this content so he doesn't really need to change gems, I tank a handful of heroic mode fights for our guild wearing 100% dps gear, trinkets, gems, reforged all for max dps. Like I said geared healers make tanking pretty trivial.

Reesi gem's whats best according to sims and she's an expert. For starting bears I highly suggest listening to her words. However, she too changes gems based on fights she's tanking. I've done some armory stalking on Reesi and when she was working on Sinestra she did swap out some of her hybrid gems for pure stam. Now that her guild has cleared the content she's gone back to the proper set up we all praise her for.

Basically how you gem as a tank is a lot like how you spec as a dps. Some fights call for heavier stam so be ready to gem that way until you get it on farm status. Just like back in wrath on heroic anub for example all the dps would spec in ways to increase their aoe damage. Remember these guides are guides that work most of the time; however, when the situation calls for you to move outside the box be ready to. Tanking, healing, dps nothing is really set in stone.

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