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Celestalon: Berserk is one of the strongest CD's in the game

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Re: Celestalon: Berserk is one of the strongest CD's in the

Postby Vularo » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:34 am

but in WoD it will :>

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Re: Celestalon: Berserk is one of the strongest CD's in the

Postby Paloro » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:50 am

Vularo wrote:but in WoD it will :>


I don't remember seeing anything saying that feral bleeds will now be affected by haste for WoD. Where is your source?
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Re: Celestalon: Berserk is one of the strongest CD's in the

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:10 pm

Paloro wrote:
Vularo wrote:but in WoD it will :>


I don't remember seeing anything saying that feral bleeds will now be affected by haste for WoD. Where is your source?

They haven't made any announcements about how our bleeds will work or how they are going to try and make Haste better for us.

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Re: Celestalon: Berserk is one of the strongest CD's in the

Postby teddabear » Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:03 am

Maybe they think making Feral super easy will address the issue of them being under represented. My opinion is a good chunk of the few remaining Ferals would play something else.

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Re: Celestalon: Berserk is one of the strongest CD's in the

Postby Steakbomb » Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:45 pm

I have played this game since Vanilla and played Druid since the end of BC. I have seen many of changes come and go and nothing will make me play another class. I love Feral and Guardian and don't mind swapping between the 2 based on my guild needs so it doesn't really matter to me how they change feral, I am a druid until the end. I have already snagged a bunch of gear to swap over to when 6.0 hits to be ready for any changes that may happen. Ferals still have a ton of raid utility and unless they remove it, I would say that the dedicated ferals will stay put.
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Re: Celestalon: Berserk is one of the strongest CD's in the

Postby Dysheki » Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:55 pm

If he meant: "In AoE situations, berserk is one of the strongest cooldowns in the game." I wouldn't necessarily argue.

But to just say it's flat out one of the best in the game is kind of funny. Granted I haven't really played much for SoO on my druid at all (yay casual) but all my fights from ToT you'll see me reeeeeally low on a pull and then catch up over time (i.e. Berserk is not a powerful cooldown).
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Re: Celestalon: Berserk is one of the strongest CD's in the

Postby Steakbomb » Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:10 pm

I would agree that Berserk is a meh CD as of right now. Ferals just don't have the burst that other classes. On Garrosh normal when the adds come out, I throw up a DoC/Rune buffed Thrash and I go up to around 1.3 mill dps for a moment but most fights I burst like 700-800k. I raid with an enhancement shaman and he bursts close to 1.2 mill every fight but within 30 secs I catch up and am within the top 3 dps for the fight and the longer the fight, the more I pull away. Feral DPS is constant dps so we don''t have as high of burst but we do a lot of dmg all the time.

Although thinking about it now that stuff has been datamined, I think the tweet may have been referring to Berserk in WoD since we get the bonus 50 Energy cap with Berserk now and more of our DMG is going into Direct DMG vs all Bleeds like it is now. In WoD I wouldn't be surprised if Berserk is indeed the strongest DPS CD in the game.
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Re: Celestalon: Berserk is one of the strongest CD's in the

Postby Tinderhoof » Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:32 pm

50 more max energy during Berserk just takes longer to energy cap. It doesn't change Berserks power at all. 20% on Shred and FB isn't going to make a big difference yet. Now when they readjust numbers it may get better. However Berserk is still flawed in that once we have the resources to use every GCD (happens very quickly) it stops getting much better.

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Re: Celestalon: Berserk is one of the strongest CD's in the

Postby Stenhaldi » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:54 pm

Only reason we're energy capping is soul of the forest. If other talents somehow become more standard it won't be an issue.

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Re: Celestalon: Berserk is one of the strongest CD's in the

Postby Treeba » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:56 pm

This might be bad datamining, or just old news, but has anyone else noticed that Incarnation, Berserk, and Tiger's Fury all last 10 seconds now?

http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/102543-inc ... the-jungle

http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/5217-tigers-fury

http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/106952-berserk

http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/106951-berserk

Also wonder if that TF is 10 seconds before or after the perk.

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Re: Celestalon: Berserk is one of the strongest CD's in the

Postby aggixx » Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:40 am

They're all normal to me. Probably a display or datamining issue.
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Re: Celestalon: Berserk is one of the strongest CD's in the

Postby Nortnort » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:24 am

Hi, new here but I noticed the tweet didn't say if they were talking about PvE or PvP. I see this is a PvE topic but Berserk is probably one of the strongest PvP cooldowns in it's burst and survivability boosting. I can stay at 100% hp 1v3 with berserk up easy, or if I'm not getting focused I can rip right through a second wind. Berserk has one me many duels and many arena matches without ever having to use survival instincts.

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Re: Celestalon: Berserk is one of the strongest CD's in the

Postby Tinderhoof » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:59 am

Are you talking about Berserk by itself for paired with Incarnation? Cause that makes a difference.

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Re: Celestalon: Berserk is one of the strongest CD's in the

Postby Dargaron » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:29 am

Elamari wrote:I don't think you can compare game mechanics now to what they were in wrath. Bleeds had shorter durations and we had to keep mangle up. Back then Berserk allowed for some straight throughput rather than just managing bleeds and buffs / debuffs.

My point was, that back then more of our damage was from bleeds than direct damage. Then, thanks to PVP they tweaked the numbers so that bleeds would do less, and direct damage would do more.

This inherently devalues berserk.

Yet despite those changes to bleeds and direct damage, berserk did not change. It became less valuable with those changes, and still continues to be less valuable than it was back when the ability was first introduced.

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Re: Celestalon: Berserk is one of the strongest CD's in the

Postby Dysheki » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:57 am

Nortnort wrote:Hi, new here but I noticed the tweet didn't say if they were talking about PvE or PvP. I see this is a PvE topic but Berserk is probably one of the strongest PvP cooldowns in it's burst and survivability boosting. I can stay at 100% hp 1v3 with berserk up easy, or if I'm not getting focused I can rip right through a second wind. Berserk has one me many duels and many arena matches without ever having to use survival instincts.


Please explain how Berserk boosts your survivability against three players. I mean, more finishers equals more NS procs (assuming you aren't CC boned, which you should be against three players) but unless you're also running HotW or the three players you are playing against are absolute morons berserk is not going to be much of a help for survivability. And if you're running HotW it has more to do with that than Berserk being amazing.
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Re: Celestalon: Berserk is one of the strongest CD's in the

Postby AsgardFM » Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:05 am

Dysheki wrote:
Nortnort wrote:Hi, new here but I noticed the tweet didn't say if they were talking about PvE or PvP. I see this is a PvE topic but Berserk is probably one of the strongest PvP cooldowns in it's burst and survivability boosting. I can stay at 100% hp 1v3 with berserk up easy, or if I'm not getting focused I can rip right through a second wind. Berserk has one me many duels and many arena matches without ever having to use survival instincts.


Please explain how Berserk boosts your survivability against three players. I mean, more finishers equals more NS procs (assuming you aren't CC boned, which you should be against three players) but unless you're also running HotW or the three players you are playing against are absolute morons berserk is not going to be much of a help for survivability. And if you're running HotW it has more to do with that than Berserk being amazing.


I think he's talking about the Bear version of Berserk while in Feral spec. Triple mangle (and triple rage-gen) + Frenzied Regen spam allows for a decent amount of panic healing.
They've not said what will happen (if anything) to Bearserk but I don't think its what Celastion was talking about.

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Re: Celestalon: Berserk is one of the strongest CD's in the

Postby Nortnort » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:28 pm

AsgardFM wrote:
Dysheki wrote:
Nortnort wrote:Hi, new here but I noticed the tweet didn't say if they were talking about PvE or PvP. I see this is a PvE topic but Berserk is probably one of the strongest PvP cooldowns in it's burst and survivability boosting. I can stay at 100% hp 1v3 with berserk up easy, or if I'm not getting focused I can rip right through a second wind. Berserk has one me many duels and many arena matches without ever having to use survival instincts.


Please explain how Berserk boosts your survivability against three players. I mean, more finishers equals more NS procs (assuming you aren't CC boned, which you should be against three players) but unless you're also running HotW or the three players you are playing against are absolute morons berserk is not going to be much of a help for survivability. And if you're running HotW it has more to do with that than Berserk being amazing.


I think he's talking about the Bear version of Berserk while in Feral spec. Triple mangle (and triple rage-gen) + Frenzied Regen spam allows for a decent amount of panic healing.
They've not said what will happen (if anything) to Bearserk but I don't think its what Celastion was talking about.


No, I'm talking about popping berserk in cat form and spamming 1 CP ferocious bites with glyph of ferocious bite in, the amount of self healing this does is probably the most powerful in the game for a dps spec.

edit: words

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Re: Celestalon: Berserk is one of the strongest CD's in the

Postby DomGF » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:05 pm

I miss remove fear Berserk :C

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Re: Celestalon: Berserk is one of the strongest CD's in the

Postby hullaballoonatic » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:25 am

Berserk, intended to be our most powerful offensive cooldown, does not benefit from our mastery whatsoever. Is this a problem, or does its utility (in how you can deal damage with it up) make up for that inherent flaw? What are other examples of dps cooldowns for other specs that do not benefit from their mastery at all?

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Re: Celestalon: Berserk is one of the strongest CD's in the

Postby Stenhaldi » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:08 am

For elemental, Fire Elemental Totem doesn't scale with mastery and Ascendance doesn't scale with crit. Xuen doesn't scale with mastery. Frozen Orb doesn't scale with mastery or haste.

I don't think it necessarily matters that berserk doesn't scale with mastery, unless either the spell or the stat ends up too weak as a result. Is berserk too weak? As I noted earlier in the thread, it's actually deceptively strong right now (albeit not at the level Celestalon claims) and could become even better when/if DoTs contribute a smaller portion of our damage.

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Re: Celestalon: Berserk is one of the strongest CD's in the

Postby Dysheki » Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:52 pm

Nortnort wrote:No, I'm talking about popping berserk in cat form and spamming 1 CP ferocious bites with glyph of ferocious bite in, the amount of self healing this does is probably the most powerful in the game for a dps spec.

edit: words


Well, I guess. But then you're also using a glyph to make it that 'powerful' and you're not really doing any damage. At all. So you can survive a little bit longer with a 3v1 but at the end of the day where does that get you outside of BGs holding off a potential flag cap? /shrug

Stenhaldi wrote:Is berserk too weak? As I noted earlier in the thread, it's actually deceptively strong right now (albeit not at the level Celestalon claims) and could become even better when/if DoTs contribute a smaller portion of our damage.


I don't think anyone believes berserk is weak by any means, but when you consider the reliance druids have on bleeds on live and the wording of Celestalon it's easy to see why we're picking at his tweet. I just think it's an average cooldown. Nothing great, nothing terrible.

And to DoTs being a smaller portion of our damage, IF that happens, sure berserk would be valued much higher. But I don't really have reason to believe it at this point until we get far into beta.
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