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Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

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Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon May 23, 2011 2:33 pm

As a few people have suggested I wanted to get a thread started were people can post logs and have others make suggestions to help us improve. I have logs from the last two weeks. I had no gear upgrades between the two, but I did switch from a moderate hit build ignoring expertise to a hit and expertise cap. The first reforge build maximized mastery for every piece and leftover stats were reforged to hit or haste. The second reforge build I took a big hit in mastery to achive both caps but reforged another stat when ever possible.

Week 1 (max mastery ~550 hit)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ea8v70tu0m0hi782/
and
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-jjo7vewqr3ddrnpj/
This was one of my best weeks ever. I ranked in several fights, and managed to not do anything too stupid. Ignore the Nef parse as I got REALLY lucky that attempt and ended up with 40% uptime on Stolen Power.

Week 2 (hit/expertise cap)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/832ygeab1wvzapdm/
Progress wise this was my guilds best week. We managed to clear up to Cho'Gall in a single night (we are bypassing Heroic AS to race our Alliance rival for the Sindergosa kill). Not my best week. I managed to die stupidly on Omnitron by Feral charging out of the raid stack to get started on the second wave of oozes. In mid air I got the focused debuff and landed right on my add for an insta death.

In general I tend to do pretty good on most fights. I feel that I have kind of hit my roof for Chimaron, and Valiona fights. I know I should be doing better I just haven't manged to squeeze out any more performance in the last month. Any suggestions on any fights would be welcome (public is fine).

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon May 23, 2011 2:38 pm

One more thing I was going to mention. Next week I am planning on keeping the hit/expertise cap reforge but I am going to swap out my EotC trinkt for the Fluid Death to make up some mastery and get some more hit I don't have to gain by reforging. Meloriak and Omnitron I am going to swap UW out for Fluid Death instead due to swipe not making use of UW's proc.

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Floofles » Mon May 23, 2011 5:24 pm

You are doing well on Chimaeron and Valiona, all of the rest of the fights in this content pretty much come down to how much of a dick you want to be for rankings and how your guild does the fight/which order the omnotron things come in/whether or not atramedes goes into the air at 11% every shitting week. Though saying that I think you're really not performing to your potential on omnomnomnomnomnomotron. If your tank is rubbish and can't manage to tank things in the right place you can still do massive DPS provided the mobs are less than a second's run away from the puddle. The puddle has a long delay before it drops off, this means you can run back and forth between the puddle to do specials. In addition to that, make sure you plan ahead with your bleeds as you're very rarely spending any time with a set of bleeds on both active thingies, here are two omnotron logs for you to compare to;

First one where I got targetted by a lot of crap so had to run out a lot;

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-3 ... 31&e=14294

And another with only being targetted by one thing so only running out once;

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-n ... 266&e=1527

If you look at the uptime on rip and rake you'll see before switching i'm pooling, reapplying and then switching, the only exception to this is with the magmatron shield as you can almost break this with a full rip and rake if you apply it with the power generator.

On ascendant council there are two things you should be able to improve upon massively, both are pretty much reliant on getting your guild to think more DPS minded though. You really should be getting frost to melee, fire to ranged in phase one and in phase two you should ideally be on terrastra. With that said though, particularly talking about this log; http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-j ... 590&e=7840 you really could have had much higher bleed uptimes in P2 and even using warrior tanks it's worth doing FFF as it's up instantly without having to wait. The previous week you had two lightning rods spaced apart by roughly 25 seconds, this is sufficient time to apply bleeds.

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Floofles » Mon May 23, 2011 5:25 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:One more thing I was going to mention. Next week I am planning on keeping the hit/expertise cap reforge but I am going to swap out my EotC trinkt for the Fluid Death to make up some mastery and get some more hit I don't have to gain by reforging. Meloriak and Omnitron I am going to swap UW out for Fluid Death instead due to swipe not making use of UW's proc.


Look at your logs in detail making note of when your Unheeded Warning is proccing. It's incredibly overrated.

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon May 23, 2011 6:59 pm

I can't really disagree with anything you have pointed out.

I know my bleed uptime on Omni is sup par. I tried doing refreshes between target switches, but had trouble having the right amount of combo points/energy available. I will slow down on Tuesday and see what I can do. Generator time is going to be pretty much a non issue for me. Our tanks have never been confident about the positioning and also threat leary (blame our very good dps warrior). When a generator spawns they drag the tron to the far corner away from it.

AC is a mixed bag. Our strat sucks and until we start doing heroic attempts the raid leader isn't up for switching things around. That doesn't mean that I have done my best on that fight. When we first beat them we were REALLY melee heavy. Our first kill was a week before the Electric Instiblity nerf to not target melee right away. To make the kill work the melee were put on Arion to slow us down and the ranged on Testra to balance the rate they were lowered. That doesn't mean that I can't be getting bleeds up on him better, its just not an optimal setup. I am trying to get us to pretend like its heroic to get people used to positioning so maybe this week or next.

Thanks for the tips, I will see what I come up with this week.

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Lorclonil » Tue May 24, 2011 1:07 pm

I'll go next! I would love some advice/ideas on how I could improve. The log below is from Wednesday of last week (subsequent raid nights we ended up with 21 or fewer people.)

Halfus: I off-tank a drake and then switch to tank another drake afterwards. Cat form after both are dead.

Omnotron: (We haven't started heroic yet.) I'd love some input on how I could improve here. I tend to rip threat if I go all out when a golem first comes out so I need to be very careful (especially on the 2nd golem; I tend to pull worse off of our warrior tank than our Paladin.) The golems are pulled quite a distance away from the generator pools so, even with dash, I'm not able to get in range to apply rip/rake before it falls off.

Magmaw: I'm one of the chain-throwers. I usually toss on Fluid Death with Essence for this fight for the hit rating (I was running into issues getting DoT's up on the constructs quickly.)

Atramedes: My bane. My guild is a bit positionally challenged so EVERYONE groups up in front of the boss on the tank and we shift together. I'm also the designated gong ringer (every Searing Flames and every other air phase.) Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

Chimaeron: I try. I try really hard on this one. Our group point for the feud/bot-offline phase is slightly in front of the boss so I'm unable to shred and my attacks miss even more than they would with just the hit debuff. I also save my tranquility for the point just before 22% after the last feud to help get everyone to full health before phase 2; this really sucks because it's right at the beginning of the execute phase.

Maloriak: Timing it so that berserk is available for the first green phase is tough. Our paladin tank handles the Vile Swill phase while our warrior is on the boss (we tried with the warrior as swill tank but he had major trouble picking them all up and keeping them.) I have to hold off on the first berserk for what seems an eternity after the swills form (15-20 seconds into the black phase) or risk ripping them off the tank. Unfortunately, this pushes berserk past the beginning of the first green phase. My guild doesn't seem to have much trouble (and is getting better every time) with getting the vile swills down before the next phase begins. The green phase, on the other hand (especially the 2nd one,) we have trouble getting them all down before the next phase begins. We only had 24 people on this night, so that could explain the issues with green phase 2.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/xazsayx6j3vewxin/

Again, any advice would be great!

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Leafkiller » Tue May 24, 2011 2:25 pm

Your guild's fight positioning could use a lot of work. Positioning needs to include how to optimize raid dps and survivability - and it matters a lot when the content is a challenge for the raid group - especially if you are not running in a top 100 guild.

On H Meloriak - if you Berserk at the start of the first Vile Swills phase, Berserk come off of cooldown just as the first green phase starts. You will then have it available for the second green phase as needed. Or you could save it for both Vile Swill phases and the second green phase. Phase timing is about 90 seconds. Also, with TF glyphed, I was able to cast it with low energy at the start of the fight and have it come off of cooldown for the Swills. I should have glyphed Berserk - and to compensate, I will probably cast a TF at the start of the fight with higher energy (wasting some energy), which is better than holding off for 30 seconds for the swills. I wait for all the swills to spawn (just dpsing Meloriak) and then hit TF/Berserk/SI and go to town. Typically I pull 1-2 swills (hence the SI followed by Berserk) but had no issue living until the tank has a chance to taunt them off of me. I am thinking of having a salv tossed on me at the start of that phase to see if it will help some (also thinking of having the rogues/DKs send ToTs/Frenzy my way since cat swipe is so over-powered). Gearwise I am swapping FD for UW and going with 8% hit/26 expertise since that fight is dominated by swipe.

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue May 24, 2011 2:55 pm

Hey Lorclonil.

I have a suggestion that isn't really feral related but could be helpful for Atramedes.

When we first started working on H Atramedes we had a lot of issues moving around the discs and not having people caught up in the flame breath. So we came up with a strat to minimize movment and also to help keep our tanking area clear of fire after he lands from an air phase.

What we do is tank him right in the spot were he spawns (the nook at the back of the room). The tank pulls and turns him so he is facing away from the door you come in. The whole raid then stacks up on the right side of that nook. You have to make sure that melee is at max distance and the range stack right on their heads. When the discs spawn everyone just runs to the left side of the nook. Rinse and repeat. Flame breath targets need to run away from the raid (usually toward the tank).

When the air phase starts everyone will have plenty of time to get into the main room before he targets someone. As long as folks get into position you will not end up with any fire patches in the tank spot, and won't have to dodge much after he lands. Just have the tank drag him back and start the process over. If I can find a video of one of our kills I will link it.

EDIT: Found it http://www.youtube.com/user/billthecanuck?feature=mhum#p/a/u/2/6C7uHA9fU78. This was a pretty early kill so you can see a few bad examples of what happens if people move to early to the new spot (see around 4:35). Hope that helps.

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Lorclonil » Tue May 24, 2011 3:40 pm

Thanks! I hadn't thought about using SI with Berserk on the Vile Swill; I use it during the green phase with Berserk, so it makes sense to use it when I pull some swills.

We originally started working on Atramedes like you suggested, Tinderhoof, but had a few people who just couldn't seem to come to grips with the movement directions changing (On right: left if sonic, right if breath -- On left: right if sonic, left if breath.) We almost always had someone pass through the raid with Flame Breath. Though our raid dps dropped, after a few attempts of stacking on the tank people stopped going the wrong direction and he dies pretty consistently in one or 2 attempts. Going to try to talk our raid leader into positioning the raid behind the boss and using the same strategy (I'm crossing my fingers that I can re-glyph Shred for this fight!)

We just started working on V&T (all of our attempts so far have been with 21, sometimes 22, people.) We have no rogues and I'm one of the lucky ones who gets to DPS sentries. Any tips on going under? Save SI and Barkskin for the Twilight Realm?

Thanks again.

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Floofles » Wed May 25, 2011 9:41 am

Leafkiller wrote:On H Meloriak - if you Berserk at the start of the first Vile Swills phase, Berserk come off of cooldown just as the first green phase starts. You will then have it available for the second green phase as needed. Or you could save it for both Vile Swill phases and the second green phase. Phase timing is about 90 seconds. Also, with TF glyphed, I was able to cast it with low energy at the start of the fight and have it come off of cooldown for the Swills. I should have glyphed Berserk - and to compensate, I will probably cast a TF at the start of the fight with higher energy (wasting some energy), which is better than holding off for 30 seconds for the swills. I wait for all the swills to spawn (just dpsing Meloriak) and then hit TF/Berserk/SI and go to town. Typically I pull 1-2 swills (hence the SI followed by Berserk) but had no issue living until the tank has a chance to taunt them off of me. I am thinking of having a salv tossed on me at the start of that phase to see if it will help some (also thinking of having the rogues/DKs send ToTs/Frenzy my way since cat swipe is so over-powered). Gearwise I am swapping FD for UW and going with 8% hit/26 expertise since that fight is dominated by swipe.


TF Glyph :(

Even unglyphed you are able to open with FC/FFF -> mangle -> sr -> tf -> rake -> mangle -> mangle -> if needed for cp, otherwise use after the rip -> rip and have TF come off CD just as the swills become attackable. You then TF + berserk and press swipe, then you press swipe some more and then... some swipe. Provided you keep up with your tank you don't need to worry about aggro, just SI/barkskin and keep swiping. Swipe like you've never swiped before. After that you should do some swipe.

Berserk and TF (if TF is not glyphed) will come off CD at the exact same time around 2 seconds before the green phase's knockback. Get knocked back, pot whilst being knocked back, hit swipe to bleed some energy, TF/berserk and press swipe. If your guild doesn't have idiot rogues like mine, they'll tricks you. If they argue about this go and link them Zkall's log or my log and make them look at abherant damage. As leafkiller says, go for hit and expertise here.

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Floofles » Wed May 25, 2011 9:46 am

Lorclonil wrote:We just started working on V&T (all of our attempts so far have been with 21, sometimes 22, people.) We have no rogues and I'm one of the lucky ones who gets to DPS sentries. Any tips on going under? Save SI and Barkskin for the Twilight Realm?

Thanks again.


My advice would be to send down a ranged DPS. Arcane mages are good at it as they have huge burst and can do various things to stay alive. Moonkins are OK too, they can go in in Solar, dot everything and then get out and this will assist your other dps that go down.

If you are forced to go down then i'd suggest just applying a rip on one, switching to another, applying a rip, then maybe another if you're comfortable with your health. Don't let the stacks get too high or you'll get one shot by random rift blasts.

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed May 25, 2011 2:15 pm

Floofles wrote:If your guild doesn't have idiot rogues like mine, they'll tricks you. If they argue about this go and link them Zkall's log or my log and make them look at abherant damage. As leafkiller says, go for hit and expertise here.

I have been looking at your logs and I had two questions.
1. How do you guys setup to do only 1 green phase? I assume it's either let all the aberations out after the first swill phase, or just tank the extra ones after 25%. I want to try an convince my guild to try and make the fight more interesting then it is now. As it is now we melee has to spend all of the second red phase and blue phase just standing there doing 0 damage so we don't push him early.

2. How hard do you try and keep the 4p bonus up during the swill phase swip frenzy? Personally I try and keep it up, and seemed to have better success when I do, but I would love to hear your opinion.

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Kihrawr » Wed May 25, 2011 3:21 pm

Hi! I am looking for tips on how to improve my kitty DPS on Atramedes. Kihrawr is my alt, and I actually end up tanking most of the time, but on Atramedes I get to DPS, and I want to do a good job.

It's unclear to me what my theoretical maximum DPS should be on the fight in 359 gear (I have no 372 gear, since this alt run just started up).

Anyway, here are the logs for our first 25-man alt run:

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-qr9msfiopen6j4my/

Here is my armory:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/w ... r/advanced

And the Atramedes fight specifically:

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-qr9ms ... 297&e=8636

In general just looking for tips like when the best time is to use my potion, when to Ravage, and any other tips experts might have for this fight.

I've been doing well with my bear DPS, but I want to do equally well when I go cat.

Thanks!

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Andolie » Wed May 25, 2011 6:03 pm

Hi! I saw this on the front page and thought I'd sign myself up. :) I feel like I've got the majority of my abilities down, but just those little tip/tricks that put you over the top are missing. I tried so hard last night to FC/Ravage on H. V&T, but I felt that my dps was suffering for it. I'm sure more practice will help there. I've also tinkered around with reforging for hit/exp vs mastery. I'm currently mastery since I haven't really had a chance to sit down and look at the reforging. I kept coming up short in either exp or hit. Grrr. :(

In any case, here's a link to WoL. My guild raids T-Th and I rarely miss so I've linked the most recent ones, but feel free to look back over time.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-cyrhhqliffus9epi/

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-g4ixn5p79bhly1ut/

(Feel free to giggle at http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ck78uvs71bn6dzor/ )

Here's a link to my Armory, and any suggestions here would be more than welcome as well.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/m ... e/advanced

Any suggestions, criticisms, and tips are very welcome and much appreciated. I know I could be doing better, and definitely want to do better. :)
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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Qbear » Wed May 25, 2011 6:59 pm

Well looking at Kihrawr first, your armory shows that you know what your doing in terms of enchants, gems, and reforging is concerned (I see your trying for hit/exp cap) Just know if your able to grab the ring from ODS it should put you to the 8% you need to get capped.

I really want to preach for a fight like Atra that using berserk glyph over tiger's fury is really going to shine. Just looking at the amount of times you personally casted Tiger's Fury during the fight you only made up enough for a 4min 5sec fight which of course your fight time was almost 2 mins longer. Since you spend so much time not able to touch the boss, glyph of berserk is going to take over. Personally I just use berserk glyph all the time since I myself never made proper use of the thing.

I see you gained and used three ravage! procs that fight which to me shows your using it in your opener as well as every time a new ground phase starts which is flawless. As for bleed up time I understand that a fight you can't stay on the boss of course is going to lower the uptime by quite a bit. However, it's possible to get closer to 80% not really past that from anything I've seen but that could get raised just slightly higher. Even more so looking at your Savage Roar uptime which was pretty low :( Keep in mind it's no where what it was in wrath but still pretty important to keep up as much as possible.

All in all your doing well just minor tweaks as far as really watching your savage roar, for next time try out the Berserk glyph I think you'll grow to love it more, even more so for that fight.

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed May 25, 2011 7:16 pm

EDIT: Damn Q is faster then me.
Hi Kihrawr. Welcome to the community.
I took a look at your logs and your gear. I would say you are doing a lot of things great. You are double potting, all your gems and enchants are correct, your Rip and Rake up times are consistant with the top 5 feral logs for 25 normal and a touch better then mine on heroic, and it looks like you got off a FC/Ravage at the start and each time he landed. The biggest difference I see between you and the top places is gear and fight duration. Most of them are around 3:30 seconds which means the fight ends right at the end of their second berserk. In your case you are about 30 seconds from berserk being off cooldown (5:40). My only suggestion would be to see if you are lucky enough to line up a TF, Berserk and pot right after a flame breath has finished. You are doing just fine.

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Kihrawr » Thu May 26, 2011 12:52 pm

Qbear wrote:Well looking at Kihrawr first, your armory shows that you know what your doing in terms of enchants, gems, and reforging is concerned (I see your trying for hit/exp cap) Just know if your able to grab the ring from ODS it should put you to the 8% you need to get capped.


That would be great. I'll have to snag that when it drops next. I've been favoring Hit and Expertise since I also wear this gear as a Bear threat set.

Qbear wrote:I really want to preach for a fight like Atra that using berserk glyph over tiger's fury is really going to shine. Just looking at the amount of times you personally casted Tiger's Fury during the fight you only made up enough for a 4min 5sec fight which of course your fight time was almost 2 mins longer. Since you spend so much time not able to touch the boss, glyph of berserk is going to take over. Personally I just use berserk glyph all the time since I myself never made proper use of the thing.


I'll try that next week, and see if I can get an improvement with it. So you would advocate just using Glyph of Berserk all the time over Glyph of Tiger's Fury?

Qbear wrote:Even more so looking at your Savage Roar uptime which was pretty low :( Keep in mind it's no where what it was in wrath but still pretty important to keep up as much as possible.


At the moment (mostly for learning purposes), I'm using Leafkiller's Ovale script, so I'm basically just using the moves it suggests. It's possible I botched it, but assuming I didn't, is there a reason why it might favor a lower uptime on Savage Roar?

Thanks for the tips!

Tinderhoof wrote:Most of them are around 3:30 seconds which means the fight ends right at the end of their second berserk. In your case you are about 30 seconds from berserk being off cooldown (5:40).


Yeah, that's a good point. I think I'll focus in on the first 3:30 in WoL and see how I did relative to the top parses. :)

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Tavi » Thu May 26, 2011 1:14 pm

This is my most recent log. It is a hit cap and high Exp log. First time running with it after reading so much about it here on TFD and I've found it to much more enjoyable do to a fluid rotation. I'm Fidelias. I am a newer convert to Feral as I played holy pally until we started doing HMs and needed melee. I did play feral in Wotlk but just on alt nights and such.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/fznb ... enc=bosses

Older logs for compare. Gear hasn't changed really >.>

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ppde ... 255&e=3670

Our first Valiona Kill a few weeks back.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1yo4 ... 93&e=15294

Yesterdays Valiona Kill. The rest of the log is our getting smashed by Nef HM.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1z1p ... s=46&e=553

I volunteer to sit on farm nights mostly so I don't have too many farm night logs.

Please tell me how bad I am.

Edit: Here is my armory link sorry.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/h ... ias/simple
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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu May 26, 2011 2:06 pm

Andolie wrote:Hi! I saw this on the front page and thought I'd sign myself up. :) I feel like I've got the majority of my abilities down, but just those little tip/tricks that put you over the top are missing. I tried so hard last night to FC/Ravage on H. V&T, but I felt that my dps was suffering for it. I'm sure more practice will help there. I've also tinkered around with reforging for hit/exp vs mastery. I'm currently mastery since I haven't really had a chance to sit down and look at the reforging. I kept coming up short in either exp or hit. Grrr. :(
Any suggestions, criticisms, and tips are very welcome and much appreciated. I know I could be doing better, and definitely want to do better. :)


Hey Andolie. Welcome (even if you have been around for a little bit).

Sorry I didn't get a chance to reply to you yesterday, but first off Congradulations on your Valiona kill last night. Looking at your logs you posted and the logs from the kill you made a lot of improvments as you progressed. By the kill you had improved your Rip and Rake up times by about 5-7%, boosted your Savage Roar up time by 10% and started making much better use of !Ravage (2.5% of total damage to 4.5%). I am guessing by the numbers that you started syncing your TF and FC/Ravage which is perfect for this fight.

The best suggestion I can offer in this case is to try getting your Rip/Rake up times a little higher. Now that you have your first kill under your belt start watching the timers so you can time getting a full duration rip/rake up on the dragon just before they take off. Other than that I think you have done a great job making adjustments as you learned, so keep up the good work!

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Andolie » Thu May 26, 2011 2:21 pm

Thanks for the tips. Actually, I hadn't done the TF and FC/Ravage timings on purpose. :lol: It must have fallen out that way since I finally got a macro to work and I was basically using both of those on cooldown. I knew my Rip/Rakes weren't great since I had trouble following V when she was being moved during the dazzling destruction which resulted in bleeds falling off and her getting into the air w/o them. I think I'll tinker around more with going hit/exp capped. Would u suggest keeping the FD trinket for that or can it be done with the 372 EoC?
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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu May 26, 2011 2:39 pm

Andolie wrote:Thanks for the tips. Actually, I hadn't done the TF and FC/Ravage timings on purpose. :lol: It must have fallen out that way since I finally got a macro to work and I was basically using both of those on cooldown. I knew my Rip/Rakes weren't great since I had trouble following V when she was being moved during the dazzling destruction which resulted in bleeds falling off and her getting into the air w/o them.

Don't sell yourself short here. 88% up time on a first kill is awesome. Anyway any time you have a choice between avoiding a almost sure death mechanic and letting the bleeds drop off it's a no brainer (and you made the right choice). But based on how much you improved over the course of the last 2 days I know you can do better, so go for it.
Andolie wrote:I think I'll tinker around more with going hit/exp capped. Would u suggest keeping the FD trinket for that or can it be done with the 372 EoC?

Actually I have been playing around with dropping UW and using Fluid Death and EotC when hitting the caps. It makes up for a good chunk of hit, and adds mastery that we lose a lot of to reach those caps. I have only had a few kills this week as I sat for most of the farm content, but have liked it so far. Next week will be the real test. I would say play around and find your comfort spot.

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu May 26, 2011 7:35 pm

Tavi wrote:This is my most recent log. It is a hit cap and high Exp log. First time running with it after reading so much about it here on TFD and I've found it to much more enjoyable do to a fluid rotation. I'm Fidelias. I am a newer convert to Feral as I played holy pally until we started doing HMs and needed melee. I did play feral in Wotlk but just on alt nights and such.
Please tell me how bad I am.

Edit: Here is my armory link sorry.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/h ... ias/simple

Hi Tavi. Welcome to the community.

First off I feel the only bad players are one's who are not interested in improving themselves. The fact that you are here says you don't fall into that catagory. Now on to the suggestions.

Gear wise I have a few suggestions. I know you are shooting for higher hit and expertise, but I would recomend a few changes in that area. Right now you have 4 20agi/20 hit gems. In every case save your helm you are losing out on agility which is far more valuable to us then any other stat hands down. If you are still looking to get to the hit cap it is always better to reforge away any stat (even mastery) to get there rather then gem for it. As it is you are a little over the cap right now. I would also consider changing your glove enchant from Expertise to 50 strength. You will got a lot more dps out of the 132 ap you will get from strength then from 50 expertise. I also saw from the logs a few weeks ago that you gave up using the 4p bonus. While it depends on playstyle most of the time you will end up getting better returns from keeping the 4p bonus even if you have to use lower ilvl pieces.

For fight suggestions I am giving most of my feedback on the most recent logs:

For Omnitron:
First off I hate you for not only having Dark Intent for most fights you also don't have to dps slimes. Because your target switches will be mostly predictable you should really focus on getting your Rake/Rip times higher. Just like Floofles was telling me, try pooling up energy just before the target change so you can refresh both. Also abuse the hell out of FC to change targets, it will be off cooldown every switch, and along with TF it should be cake to get full bleeds up quickly. It also looked like you didn't use Berserk the whole fight. With how fast your guild pulls off the kill getting a Berserk on the opening and one as soon as it comes off cooldown will be a HUGE boost for you. Add a prepot and a pot for both of those and you will see a big difference.

For Chimaron:
Again you should be doing your best to be using FC on cooldown. When used together with TF you can get !Ravage to be about 5% of your damage (currently at 2.5%). Your Savage Roar uptime is a bit low as well. Also I noticed that you used Mangle almost as much as I did (very close kill times) and I am keeping 4p up. Are you not able to shred during the fued phase?

For Atramedes:
I am not sure how you guys do your strat here so I can't really make any specific suggestions time wise. I did notice that you Mangled a lot. Are you having to be in front of the boss a lot?

For Meloriak:
Again I am seeing a very high Mangle rate for the fight. I assume this is standing in front of the boss during the red phases. You should be able to safely go around behind him inbetween the the flame jets to at least extend your rips some and get back in time to help split the damage.

Completely unrelated to your logs I had 2 questions:
1. Why are you guys running with a Beast Master Hunter?
2. Does your name here and druid name happen to come from a Jim Butcher characters?

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Tavi » Thu May 26, 2011 8:57 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:
Tavi wrote:This is my most recent log. It is a hit cap and high Exp log. First time running with it after reading so much about it here on TFD and I've found it to much more enjoyable do to a fluid rotation. I'm Fidelias. I am a newer convert to Feral as I played holy pally until we started doing HMs and needed melee. I did play feral in Wotlk but just on alt nights and such.
Please tell me how bad I am.

Edit: Here is my armory link sorry.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/h ... ias/simple

Hi Tavi. Welcome to the community.

First off I feel the only bad players are one's who are not interested in improving themselves. The fact that you are here says you don't fall into that catagory. Now on to the suggestions.

Gear wise I have a few suggestions. I know you are shooting for higher hit and expertise, but I would recomend a few changes in that area. Right now you have 4 20agi/20 hit gems. In every case save your helm you are losing out on agility which is far more valuable to us then any other stat hands down. If you are still looking to get to the hit cap it is always better to reforge away any stat (even mastery) to get there rather then gem for it. As it is you are a little over the cap right now. I would also consider changing your glove enchant from Expertise to 50 strength. You will got a lot more dps out of the 132 ap you will get from strength then from 50 expertise. I also saw from the logs a few weeks ago that you gave up using the 4p bonus. While it depends on playstyle most of the time you will end up getting better returns from keeping the 4p bonus even if you have to use lower ilvl pieces.

For fight suggestions I am giving most of my feedback on the most recent logs:

For Omnitron:
First off I hate you for not only having Dark Intent for most fights you also don't have to dps slimes. Because your target switches will be mostly predictable you should really focus on getting your Rake/Rip times higher. Just like Floofles was telling me, try pooling up energy just before the target change so you can refresh both. Also abuse the hell out of FC to change targets, it will be off cooldown every switch, and along with TF it should be cake to get full bleeds up quickly. It also looked like you didn't use Berserk the whole fight. With how fast your guild pulls off the kill getting a Berserk on the opening and one as soon as it comes off cooldown will be a HUGE boost for you. Add a prepot and a pot for both of those and you will see a big difference.

For Chimaron:
Again you should be doing your best to be using FC on cooldown. When used together with TF you can get !Ravage to be about 5% of your damage (currently at 2.5%). Your Savage Roar uptime is a bit low as well. Also I noticed that you used Mangle almost as much as I did (very close kill times) and I am keeping 4p up. Are you not able to shred during the fued phase?

For Atramedes:
I am not sure how you guys do your strat here so I can't really make any specific suggestions time wise. I did notice that you Mangled a lot. Are you having to be in front of the boss a lot?

For Meloriak:
Again I am seeing a very high Mangle rate for the fight. I assume this is standing in front of the boss during the red phases. You should be able to safely go around behind him inbetween the the flame jets to at least extend your rips some and get back in time to help split the damage.

Completely unrelated to your logs I had 2 questions:
1. Why are you guys running with a Beast Master Hunter?
2. Does your name here and druid name happen to come from a Jim Butcher characters?


Our raid leader lets us mess around with certain specs on farm nights. I think our hunter wanted to get ranked in that spec. I honestly didn't even notice. All my toons names are based on Jim Butcher characters. Ehren, my mage, Ferrovax, my warrior, Isana, my warlock, Fidelias, my Druid and Tavi, my original toon I started on. I also have Kalarus, Sarl, Antillar and a hunter names Marat, (Doroga was taken)

Anyyyways

I kinda just changed to my gear at the last second before the last raid. I figured there was some fine tuning to do that. I'll reload my 4 set and switch out UW for the hit trinket. Regem back to Agi and all that. The hit trink should help me get to exp cap too.

It has to be the way we are positioned on Chim because I can't shred at all during Fued. I try not to rock the boat on stuff like that but I'll try and talk to the RL about that.

On Mal I am standing in front for red phase. Ill extend the rip and head back in the front.

On atramades the mangling is from umm people who run the wrong way with fires so I swing around the front and try to keep doing some dps. It happens alot .....

No excuse on Omnitron. I was watching the playoffs annnd spaced on berserk.

Fantastic feedback. Next week Ill post logs again and see if I can improve.

Its good to have old friends who are locks :P

Love this website and the community. Thanks again.
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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Andanas » Fri May 27, 2011 12:31 am

I'm looking for advice as well. I have two logs to post, one of me going for Hit/Expertise cap (though I didn't quite make it. I had 7% Hit and 22 Expertise), and the other going for a mix of Crit & Haste. BTW, this is all through reforging alone, no gem or enchant changes. I have to admit, I like the Haste/Crit combo better. Not missing is really nice, but the low Haste made it seem like I was waiting forever for energy to pool. I also had a lot more threat issues being going for Hit/Expertise, has shown by the amount of times I died.

Anyway, here's the logs:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/onum ... amageDone/ Hit/Exp

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1p3o ... amageDone/ Crit/Haste

My toon: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/f ... s/advanced

I do feel I need to offer a bit of an explanation for my DPS on ODS, since it's typically in that range every time. I have become so concerned about my bleeds breaking the shields during the switch, that I make a conscious effort to watch the "Next Active" timer like a hawk, and make sure I put up neither rake or rip, if the switch happens for those bleeds fall off. I'm betting I'm wrong here though.

Anyways, look forward to the advice. :)
Last edited by Andanas on Fri May 27, 2011 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri May 27, 2011 3:16 am

Andanas wrote:I'm looking for advice as well. I have two logs to post, one of me going for Hit/Expertise cap (though I didn't quite make it. I had 7% Hit and 22 Expertise), and the other going for a mix of Crit & Haste. BTW, this is all through reforging alone, no gem or enchant changes. I have to admit, I like the Haste/Crit combo better. Not missing is really nice, but the low Haste made it seem like I was waiting forever for energy to pool. I also had a lot more threat issues being going for Hit/Expertise, has shown by the amount of times I died.

Anyway, here's the logs:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/onum ... amageDone/ Hit/Exp

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1p3o ... amageDone/ Crit/Haste

My toon: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/f ... s/advanced

I do feel I need to offer a bit of an explanation for my DPS on ODS, since it's typically in that range every time. I have become so concerned about my bleeds breaking the shields during the switch, that I make a conscious effort to watch the "Next Active" timer like a hawk, and make sure I put up neither rake or rip, if the switch happens for those bleeds fall off. I'm betting I'm wrong here though.

Anyways, look forward to the advice. :)

Hey Andanas.

I don't have a lot of time to look into the logs tonight but I do have good news. The way the Omnitron shields work is they will only break due to dot damage if the dot was applied after the shield has gone up. You can have bleeds going on them the whole time the sheild is up as long as you applied them before it went active.

When I get some time tomorrow I will go through your logs if one of our other resident experts hasn't gotten to it yet. Have a good night.

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