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Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Lax » Fri May 27, 2011 3:25 am

Floofles wrote:Berserk and TF (if TF is not glyphed) will come off CD at the exact same time around 2 seconds before the green phase's knockback. Get knocked back, pot whilst being knocked back, hit swipe to bleed some energy, TF/berserk and press swipe. If your guild doesn't have idiot rogues like mine, they'll tricks you. If they argue about this go and link them Zkall's log or my log and make them look at abherant damage. As leafkiller says, go for hit and expertise here.

Thank you for that :) Did 30.8k dps with my ilvl 362 cat on Maloriak 25 hc last night. I play with a friendly rogue that I have now made my personal tott buff slave.

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby pood123 » Fri May 27, 2011 1:35 pm

Hi Tinderhoof, thank you for this thread!

My problem is that my gear is 365lvl and i think that i must do around 22k dps on such fights like Chimaron, but it's like 20k is my average dps maximum... I will be very thankful for any suggestion how to increase dps

I don't know what main mistakes i do, but i guess these two:
1 I don't use pots at the begining of a fight, only at the BL-stage
2 I use berserk every time it's off cooldown

[url]http://eu.battle.net/wow/ru/character/ясеневыи-лес/Атрэу/simple[/url]

and my last log of 3 hms

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/pgrgl1nhqznjguy9/sum/damageDone/

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Sylvaneart » Fri May 27, 2011 2:08 pm

Hey Pood welcome to TFD
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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Danxx » Fri May 27, 2011 4:04 pm

Guys thanks a lot so far. I've learned a bunch from previous replies specifically the Omnotron pool trick I can't wait to try it.
Before you guys take a look at my logs I have a quick question. What stat should I be reforging out of to hit hit cap and expertise cap ?

THANKS IN ADVANCED.

My logs
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/hwv4 ... details/2/ (Valiona and Theralion)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-g ... amageDone/ (BWD specifically Maloriak and Magmaw)

Armory:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/b ... nxx/simple

I feel I should be ranking non-stop with the gear that I have but I am not sure if its me or perhaps we are not downing bosses fast enough. Oh and it may show that I have the mirror of images on but I used cyclone and UW for these fights.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Sylvaneart » Fri May 27, 2011 4:25 pm

Welcome Dan
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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Furocious » Fri May 27, 2011 8:34 pm

Reposting here from another thread (thanks Tinderhoof)

Armory link (in kitty dps gear) http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... s/advanced

I'm in the process of setting up mew, just haven't had time yet, so I figured I'd ask here (as the FD folks are great). Anyway. I'm in a 10m raid 1 night a week crew (former progression raiders from wotlk). We're just starting on heroic T11 raids and have so far cleared heroic Halfus and are working on Maloriak currently. I'm torn right now as to what to make my 4pc set from. I'm currently using shoulders and legs for 2t11 and I just won the head token last night. I only have enough VPs for either the gloves or the chest, but not both.

Originally I was thinking taking tier gloves since Sark's is pretty well itemized, but with heroic Halfus on farm it's more likely I'll see a heroic chest token. My thought was for now take the gloves and work on VP for the chest while passing on tokens in the short term (my 10m is fairly vanq token class heavy). Then as we clear more heroics I'd move my 4pc would pick up heroic chest, gloves, and legs and leave shoulder or head to last (based on whatever we clear first...if at all before firelands)

I don't have any recent WoL parses where I was dps full time unfortunately (been letting the tanks go dps on our farm content, and I sat out a bunch this week). I can link some if it really helps, but I didn't see any of our recent parses that were really worth looking at :)

I should add I've been trolling the TFD blog for awhile now, but just got my forum account. I'm the only feral raider in my group (not overly surprising), so this place is a haven of advice :)

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri May 27, 2011 8:46 pm

Andanas wrote:I'm looking for advice as well. I have two logs to post, one of me going for Hit/Expertise cap (though I didn't quite make it. I had 7% Hit and 22 Expertise), and the other going for a mix of Crit & Haste. BTW, this is all through reforging alone, no gem or enchant changes. I have to admit, I like the Haste/Crit combo better. Not missing is really nice, but the low Haste made it seem like I was waiting forever for energy to pool. I also had a lot more threat issues being going for Hit/Expertise, has shown by the amount of times I died.
Anyways, look forward to the advice. :)

Ok I had a chance to look at your logs. In answer to your feeling about hitting hit/expertise caps at this point its really a trade off. With Crit/Haste/Mastery setup your damage protential is higher, however RNG can have a bigger effect on your damage from week to week. With the caps your damage potential is lower, but then again you will tend to be more consistant. I really think that you should go with what you are most comfortable with. If that's Crit/Haste/Mastery, go for it.

Ok gear looks pretty good, but I did have a few suggestions. The 20 agi socket bonus in your Tier chest is worth picking up. I would move one of your JC gems to your belt, and put a 20agi/20hit gem in there. The end result will be agility will stay the same but you will pick up 20 hit for free. Also you boot enchant has the 25 agi + speed increase. That speed increase doesn't stack with the Feral Swiftness talent. If those boots are only being used for Cat I would go with a 35 agi enchant (its dirt cheap). If you tank with those boots then ya stick with the speed enchant.

Spec wise I see you have Infected Wounds. Normally this type is debuff is going to be applied by your tank in one fashion or another. It won't really help your DPS any. In some cases when you get to HM's there are stuff you will be attacking that you dont' really want to slow. Now there really isn't another talent that will get you more dps (Primal Maddness can but is a pain in the ass) so having it won't hurt you any, but it usually won't help you either.

Log wise it was a noticable difference between the hit build and the non hit build. As you said you felt more comfortable with the non hit I would stick with it. Best advise I can offer for now is on fights were you can FC in melee range like Chimaron and Valiona do it on cooldown. You will find that TF and FC line up pretty nice so I would try and get that free !Ravage buffed with TF every time. It will surely give you an added boost. Hope that helps.

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri May 27, 2011 9:02 pm

pood123 wrote:Hi Tinderhoof, thank you for this thread!

My problem is that my gear is 365lvl and i think that i must do around 22k dps on such fights like Chimaron, but it's like 20k is my average dps maximum... I will be very thankful for any suggestion how to increase dps

I don't know what main mistakes i do, but i guess these two:
1 I don't use pots at the begining of a fight, only at the BL-stage
2 I use berserk every time it's off cooldown

[url]http://eu.battle.net/wow/ru/character/ясеневыи-лес/Атрэу/simple[/url]

and my last log of 3 hms

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/pgrgl1nhqznjguy9/sum/damageDone/

Hey Pood.

I will say this gave me quite a challange as I can't read Russian (I assume thats the language your armory is in?). However the WOL was kind enough to attach the english tool tips so I am able to muddle though.

1. You don't have to pre pot. It's not really a mistake to choose not to, but if you want to max your dps out its a good idea.
2. Checking the logs it looked like you used Berserk 2 time, but in a 7 minute fight it should have been off cooldown enough for you to do a third. Best thing to do in Berserks case is not to just hit it on cooldown, but make sure you have enough energy to fully make use of it. Now that Berserk is off the GCD you can macro TF and Berserk to go off together. Those combined with using a pot just before will give you the biggest bang for your buck.

What I did see in the logs is most of your buffs/debuffs have a lower up time then they should be for this fight. As you got pretty lucky with not being hit very many times with slime debuff Rip/Rake/Savage Roar and Strength of the Panther should all be higher. If you find that you are short on energy when all of those abilities are about to expire I would suggest shredding a little less and pooling some energy. An extra shred here and there isn't worth Rip falling off for a few seconds. Do you use a mod to track your buff and debuff timers? Just increasing Rip/Rakes uptime here will show you much better results. Hope that helps :^ ).

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby Andanas » Sat May 28, 2011 1:57 am

Tinderhoof wrote:Ok I had a chance to look at your logs. In answer to your feeling about hitting hit/expertise caps at this point its really a trade off. With Crit/Haste/Mastery setup your damage protential is higher, however RNG can have a bigger effect on your damage from week to week. With the caps your damage potential is lower, but then again you will tend to be more consistant. I really think that you should go with what you are most comfortable with. If that's Crit/Haste/Mastery, go for it.

Ok gear looks pretty good, but I did have a few suggestions. The 20 agi socket bonus in your Tier chest is worth picking up. I would move one of your JC gems to your belt, and put a 20agi/20hit gem in there. The end result will be agility will stay the same but you will pick up 20 hit for free. Also you boot enchant has the 25 agi + speed increase. That speed increase doesn't stack with the Feral Swiftness talent. If those boots are only being used for Cat I would go with a 35 agi enchant (its dirt cheap). If you tank with those boots then ya stick with the speed enchant.

Spec wise I see you have Infected Wounds. Normally this type is debuff is going to be applied by your tank in one fashion or another. It won't really help your DPS any. In some cases when you get to HM's there are stuff you will be attacking that you dont' really want to slow. Now there really isn't another talent that will get you more dps (Primal Maddness can but is a pain in the ass) so having it won't hurt you any, but it usually won't help you either.

Log wise it was a noticable difference between the hit build and the non hit build. As you said you felt more comfortable with the non hit I would stick with it. Best advise I can offer for now is on fights were you can FC in melee range like Chimaron and Valiona do it on cooldown. You will find that TF and FC line up pretty nice so I would try and get that free !Ravage buffed with TF every time. It will surely give you an added boost. Hope that helps.
Thanks for the advice. I'll make the gem, and feet enchant changes when I can. I know I used to have the 35 agi enchant, not sure why I switched. I also PvP in this spec (not the best PVP spec, I know, but I use my other spec for tanking), and since having Infected Wounds doesn't hurt my PvE DPS, I'm going to keep it. I will also work on FC.

How would you say my DPS is based on my gear? Low? Ok? I do look forward to next weekend, knowing I can use bleeds on OSD, up until the shield goes up. :) How does that work btw? I'd think that if I have a full rip and a nearly full rake up just before the shield goes up, the bleeds would still have a chance to pop the shield.

Again, thanks for the advice, and if anyone else has more advice, I'd appreciate it.

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Re: Let's talk about logs

Postby pood123 » Sat May 28, 2011 2:41 am

Tinderhoof wrote:Hey Pood.

I will say this gave me quite a challange as I can't read Russian (I assume thats the language your armory is in?). However the WOL was kind enough to attach the english tool tips so I am able to muddle though.

1. You don't have to pre pot. It's not really a mistake to choose not to, but if you want to max your dps out its a good idea.
2. Checking the logs it looked like you used Berserk 2 time, but in a 7 minute fight it should have been off cooldown enough for you to do a third. Best thing to do in Berserks case is not to just hit it on cooldown, but make sure you have enough energy to fully make use of it. Now that Berserk is off the GCD you can macro TF and Berserk to go off together. Those combined with using a pot just before will give you the biggest bang for your buck.

What I did see in the logs is most of your buffs/debuffs have a lower up time then they should be for this fight. As you got pretty lucky with not being hit very many times with slime debuff Rip/Rake/Savage Roar and Strength of the Panther should all be higher. If you find that you are short on energy when all of those abilities are about to expire I would suggest shredding a little less and pooling some energy. An extra shred here and there isn't worth Rip falling off for a few seconds. Do you use a mod to track your buff and debuff timers? Just increasing Rip/Rakes uptime here will show you much better results. Hope that helps :^ ).


Thanks huge for the answer! Found a lot of useful things. When i wrote the message i thought that it would be difficult for you to understand logs in russian. Yes, russians like to play cats too :)

I really forgot to write the macro on TF+Berserk. And i never thought about pooling the energy.. i will try it next week. :) And no, i don't use other timers just because i can't find normal one. With my hit being 1.5% and low expertise it is pain in the ass to keep rip on during Feud.

Last thing i forgot to mention that it is hard dps increase when there is an arms warrior in raid group, but our warrior leader think that pve arms is nonsense.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Tinderhoof » Sat May 28, 2011 10:30 pm

Danxx wrote:Guys thanks a lot so far. I've learned a bunch from previous replies specifically the Omnotron pool trick I can't wait to try it.
Before you guys take a look at my logs I have a quick question. What stat should I be reforging out of to hit hit cap and expertise cap ?

THANKS IN ADVANCED.

My logs
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/hwv4 ... details/2/ (Valiona and Theralion)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-g ... amageDone/ (BWD specifically Maloriak and Magmaw)

Armory:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/b ... nxx/simple

I feel I should be ranking non-stop with the gear that I have but I am not sure if its me or perhaps we are not downing bosses fast enough. Oh and it may show that I have the mirror of images on but I used cyclone and UW for these fights.


Hi Danxx.

Gear looks good, but I think you forgot to enchant your cloak (22 agi).

Your Valiona parse was very good. All debuff/buff up times were good, and you were using FC and ravage (use it more). One thing I would suggest is to make sure you are using Berserk as often as you can. In a 9 minute fight it looks like you only used it once. If you stay consistant with the same level and just use Berserk every 3 minutes (energy permitting) it will likely put you into the ranked section.

Omnitron it looks like you have a lot of trouble keeping your bleeds up. Savage Roar and Strength of the Panther were also much lower. It doesn't look like you had to run out of the raid for much. You will really need to focus keeping your bleeds going and refresh them before you move onto the next Tron. If you are worried about the bleeds breaking the shields then you can rest easy. The shields will not break on dot damage unless the dot was applied after the shield went up. Bring those bleed times up and you will see a big improvement.

Magmaw it looks like you don't have to do much DPS on the Bone Constructs (lucky). Again you have a very low (22%) uptime on Savage Roar. On a fight were you have to change targets very often it is really importent to keep SR up as much as possible as white damage will still be happening even if you are energy starved. One thing to remember you can still use leftover combo points from dead mobs (ie the bone constructs) to refresh SR before you start going on Magmaw again. If you are not doing it already only berserk and pot during the the head phase.

Hope that helps. Happy shredding.

EDIT: I spaced out your question about reforging. If you are trying to reach the caps, you are pretty much going to have to reforge what ever is the highest stat on almost all of your gear. If you use the Fluid Death it helps but even with mostly BIS gear I still lose about 300 mastery to get there.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Danxx » Sat May 28, 2011 11:46 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:
Danxx wrote:Guys thanks a lot so far. I've learned a bunch from previous replies specifically the Omnotron pool trick I can't wait to try it.
Before you guys take a look at my logs I have a quick question. What stat should I be reforging out of to hit hit cap and expertise cap ?

THANKS IN ADVANCED.

My logs
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/hwv4 ... details/2/ (Valiona and Theralion)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-g ... amageDone/ (BWD specifically Maloriak and Magmaw)

Armory:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/b ... nxx/simple

I feel I should be ranking non-stop with the gear that I have but I am not sure if its me or perhaps we are not downing bosses fast enough. Oh and it may show that I have the mirror of images on but I used cyclone and UW for these fights.


Hi Danxx.

Gear looks good, but I think you forgot to enchant your cloak (22 agi).

Your Valiona parse was very good. All debuff/buff up times were good, and you were using FC and ravage (use it more). One thing I would suggest is to make sure you are using Berserk as often as you can. In a 9 minute fight it looks like you only used it once. If you stay consistant with the same level and just use Berserk every 3 minutes (energy permitting) it will likely put you into the ranked section.

Omnitron it looks like you have a lot of trouble keeping your bleeds up. Savage Roar and Strength of the Panther were also much lower. It doesn't look like you had to run out of the raid for much. You will really need to focus keeping your bleeds going and refresh them before you move onto the next Tron. If you are worried about the bleeds breaking the shields then you can rest easy. The shields will not break on dot damage unless the dot was applied after the shield went up. Bring those bleed times up and you will see a big improvement.

Magmaw it looks like you don't have to do much DPS on the Bone Constructs (lucky). Again you have a very low (22%) uptime on Savage Roar. On a fight were you have to change targets very often it is really importent to keep SR up as much as possible as white damage will still be happening even if you are energy starved. One thing to remember you can still use leftover combo points from dead mobs (ie the bone constructs) to refresh SR before you start going on Magmaw again. If you are not doing it already only berserk and pot during the the head phase.

Hope that helps. Happy shredding.

EDIT: I spaced out your question about reforging. If you are trying to reach the caps, you are pretty much going to have to reforge what ever is the highest stat on almost all of your gear. If you use the Fluid Death it helps but even with mostly BIS gear I still lose about 300 mastery to get there.


Thanks Tinderhoof. For Omnotron my guild has us coming out for the poison dude because it has been determined that staying in melee can put the cloud on melee and if nef does the special it can wipe the raid. Also I think I remember getting targeted like almost every other set of adds on that encounter.

Thanks for the tip on Magmaw I am actually doing some dmg on the construct but I limit it to just putting a 5 cp rip and then switching back to magmaw so I have found it hard to keep a good SR uptime when I am focusing on keeping bleeds up on multi targets. Also bleeds sometimes fall off when I get top of him so Instead of putting a 5 cp rip I just save energy and got nuts on head phase. Once again thanks a bunch I love this thread !

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Tinderhoof » Sun May 29, 2011 1:02 am

Furocious wrote:Reposting here from another thread (thanks Tinderhoof)

Armory link (in kitty dps gear) http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... s/advanced

I'm in the process of setting up mew, just haven't had time yet, so I figured I'd ask here (as the FD folks are great). Anyway. I'm in a 10m raid 1 night a week crew (former progression raiders from wotlk). We're just starting on heroic T11 raids and have so far cleared heroic Halfus and are working on Maloriak currently. I'm torn right now as to what to make my 4pc set from. I'm currently using shoulders and legs for 2t11 and I just won the head token last night. I only have enough VPs for either the gloves or the chest, but not both.

Originally I was thinking taking tier gloves since Sark's is pretty well itemized, but with heroic Halfus on farm it's more likely I'll see a heroic chest token. My thought was for now take the gloves and work on VP for the chest while passing on tokens in the short term (my 10m is fairly vanq token class heavy). Then as we clear more heroics I'd move my 4pc would pick up heroic chest, gloves, and legs and leave shoulder or head to last (based on whatever we clear first...if at all before firelands)

I don't have any recent WoL parses where I was dps full time unfortunately (been letting the tanks go dps on our farm content, and I sat out a bunch this week). I can link some if it really helps, but I didn't see any of our recent parses that were really worth looking at :)

I should add I've been trolling the TFD blog for awhile now, but just got my forum account. I'm the only feral raider in my group (not overly surprising), so this place is a haven of advice :)


Hey Furcious. Welcome!

So looking at your gear I would suggest going for the Tier chest to make your 4p bonus for now. Because the chest has that 20 extra agility as the socket bonus it puts it just slightly ahead of Sark. Also if you are going to have easy access to the 372 chest token that will be even better.

A few suggestions about your current setup. You should replace your wrist enchant with 50 agility, it is going to give you a much bigger boost then 50ap. I would also remove 2 points from Infected Wounds and 1 point out of Furor and get Master Shapeshifter. Neither Furor or Infected Wounds give you any dps bonuses and 4% is really a good boost. When you get a chance to try these out go ahead and post what you got. Best of luck on Meloriak!

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Disso » Sun May 29, 2011 4:30 pm

Just had a question or two about reforging and stat priorities. I've been trying to sift through posts here as well as on EJ. I just can't seem to find an answer for this. What are the stat priorities as a cat? I've been reforging to Mast > Crit > Haste. But recently someone told me that Haste is better than Crit, which I wasn't sure of but figured I'd check here to see. He was also saying something along the lines of a crit cap being at 55% which I'm currently nowhere near (40.6% crit.) I'm just looking for ways to maximize my dps. Heres a link to my armory:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/c ... o/advanced

As well as two WoL parses if anyone wants to look those over as well to see if I'm screwing something up:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-4 ... etails/12/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-x ... details/9/

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Furocious » Sun May 29, 2011 11:17 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:So looking at your gear I would suggest going for the Tier chest to make your 4p bonus for now. Because the chest has that 20 extra agility as the socket bonus it puts it just slightly ahead of Sark. Also if you are going to have easy access to the 372 chest token that will be even better.


Totally spot on. *smacks head* not sure why I didn't check the socket bonus. I've made the adjustments. I've also updated my spec. Originally I had infected wounds for the debuff for 5man and PvP while leveling, just forgot to swap it out hehe.

Also good call on the wrist enchant. When I first got the wrists, maelstrom crystals were a bit pricey for what we were tackling. Nowadays the price has dropped and my raid has some spares on hand I can take.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon May 30, 2011 4:40 am

Disso wrote:Just had a question or two about reforging and stat priorities. I've been trying to sift through posts here as well as on EJ. I just can't seem to find an answer for this. What are the stat priorities as a cat? I've been reforging to Mast > Crit > Haste. But recently someone told me that Haste is better than Crit, which I wasn't sure of but figured I'd check here to see. He was also saying something along the lines of a crit cap being at 55% which I'm currently nowhere near (40.6% crit.) I'm just looking for ways to maximize my dps. Heres a link to my armory:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/c ... o/advanced

As well as two WoL parses if anyone wants to look those over as well to see if I'm screwing something up:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-4 ... etails/12/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-x ... details/9/

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.

Hey Disso.

To be honest all of our secondary stats other then mastery are very close together in weight. For a long time it was suggested that in 359 gear stats would be Mastery > Crit > Haste > Hit=Exp, but once you had some 372 gear it would be Mastery > Haste > Crit > Hit=Exp. What we have been finding out lately is that while the above are true in a simulator that the differences between the 2 are very minor. Some ferals are now finding success reforging to hit both the Hit and Exp caps, which requires losing a good chunk of Mastery.

Reforging like you are now will likely lead to the best possible dps. It will however also be effected the most by RNG, be it good or bad. Reforging to hit the Hit/Exp caps will produce less potential dps but will be much easier to keep a rotation going. In actual use the difference between the two isn't that much. It should really come down to comfort level. If you are feeling good with what you have now, keep at it.

Looking at your logs you are doing pretty darn good (Ranking a few times). It's becoming kind of a broken record, but on fights like Omnitron and AC which are big on target swaping your bleed times suffer a little. Missing out on an extra shred to pool energy and refresh both rip and rake before you switch will help. I would also recomend you start double potting (provided your tanks can handle the extra threat at the start). Keep up the good work.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Floofles » Mon May 30, 2011 5:42 am

As an aside, getting hit and expertise isn't particularly a loss in mastery, if you use fluid death it is in fact a gain, you'll lose crit and haste.

Dissolution, I can see from some of your logs on stand still fights you are delaying your TF and thus you're losing out on TF'ed ravages and rakes. On the same stand still fights you're around 80% SR uptime which is a little low. It's difficult to analyse 10 man normal kills as i've literally no experience of them and you may be on some crazy ass assignment.

Also you're not really gaining anything from reforging haste -> crit. At best it's a couple of dps, in my opinion if you're not pursuing hit/expertise just reforge whatever crap is highest on the thing to get the most mastery. If there's 257 of one thing and 168 of another and neither is mastery, reforge the 257 to mastery. This seems to be effective in both mew and in game.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Disso » Mon May 30, 2011 12:41 pm

Thank you for taking the time to look over this, I really do appreciate it. In regards to the pre-potting, it's a tanking issue. Hopefully it won't be now that I server transfered to a different, more hardcore progression guild, but it was in my casual guild. In regards to not hitting TF when it's up, I honestly don't see that. I don't save TF to pop at a certain time, I usually pop it when it's up unless I'm doing something specific that requires me to be able to burst very quickly (Cho'gall add comes to mind, I generally have to switch to that.)

Thank you for answering my question about the stats, as it stands now I'm pretty comfortable not having much hit/exp as I'm pretty used to it at this point. I will, however, test it out as I'm open to anything at this point, I'm just trying to maximize my dps.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Darkrealm » Tue May 31, 2011 4:16 am

As a matter of interest, has anyone thought about the effect latency has on stat values? I play from Australia, typically with a 300-400ms latency, and I find that hit/exp helps A LOT more than I would have expected. On Chogall last night I went kitty for the first time in a while (usually I'm moonkin for this fight) and my hit/exp capped dps was 3-4k higher than my last attempt which was using a haste/crit build.

When latency spikes, missing can be very difficult to work around, not having to worry about it means you can get on with the next move and not have to worry about finding out the last one missed when its too late. I would be interested to hear from anyone else who plays with high latency and if they have noticed the same thing.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Floofles » Tue May 31, 2011 4:49 am

3-4k dps is within the margin of error for stupid luck either way with crit, got any logs?

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Floofles » Tue May 31, 2011 5:07 am

Disso wrote:Thank you for taking the time to look over this, I really do appreciate it. In regards to the pre-potting, it's a tanking issue. Hopefully it won't be now that I server transfered to a different, more hardcore progression guild, but it was in my casual guild. In regards to not hitting TF when it's up, I honestly don't see that. I don't save TF to pop at a certain time, I usually pop it when it's up unless I'm doing something specific that requires me to be able to burst very quickly (Cho'gall add comes to mind, I generally have to switch to that.)

Thank you for answering my question about the stats, as it stands now I'm pretty comfortable not having much hit/exp as I'm pretty used to it at this point. I will, however, test it out as I'm open to anything at this point, I'm just trying to maximize my dps.


It's easy enough to see where there are gaps without having to do anything that advanced. Find a log, set the time period to the time period of the attempt (or just navigate to the attempt you're interested in), click on you, go to buffs cast and click on the # next to Tiger's Fury. If you're using it off cooldown there'll be broadly an equal amount of time between the non green bits. You can check your uptimes of dots and such by doing this too.

It supports multidotting as well, with the green being brighter with more targets (mouse over to see what you had your dots on during the pixel your mouse is over).

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby feisty » Tue May 31, 2011 5:12 am

Hey guys. I'm not insistent on getting my logs looked over (here's a sample of our VT10hc kill, where I got a modest rank as an OT - had to tank when MT got 4stacks of the debuff; used cat gear+bearcat spec), since I'm not close to where I know I could be with a bit more of pure cat time (been cat for most of Wrath era and now I'm tanking a bit more to spice things up); but if anyone finds time to go through a few logs where I got to dps (with full dps spec and gear with some shady enchants/gems/reforges) and gave me some constructive criticism I'd appreciate it nontheless.

I have a few questions though. From what I've read in this thread I wonder if Berserk doesn't overwrite the TF buff anymore? Is FC/!Ravage beneficial to do as much as you can (every cd if possible) or is it preferable only on target swapping or bosses that you can charge in melee range? I also never managed to shred Chim during his Feud phases (frontal shreds that is). I still haven't figured out what's the best combo between these trinkets FD/Essence(hc)/UW.

Thanks for any and all replies. Great thread, great site.

Here's my Armory link (mixxxed bag of gems/reforges, trying to optimize my tanking while keeping as much dps viability as possible...my bearcat spec testifies to this)

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue May 31, 2011 7:32 pm

Hi Feisty. Welcome to the community.

What you are attempting to to do (walk the line between tank and dps) really gets to show off how flexible we can be. There have been plenty of posts about the ability to be that dps tank spec, but not many people I have seen are trying it. Are you finding that your 10man runs are running into enrage timers thus requiring more dps from you? Or are you just enjoying something a little different?

On to the questions:
- Berserk no longer cancels the TF buff, but you still can not cast TF if Berserk is active.
- If you can FC from in melee range do it on cooldown. If you have a regular boss swap often, save it for that (Omni). If you are just standing still on a boss like Meloriak that you can't FC from in melee it's best to just hold off till the next target change. Running out of range just to FC really will not get you anything.
- From what I have observed of Chimaron is that as soon as the fued starts his back becomes his front. On normal mode the raid usually stacks on the tank so he is facing you. In this case free shreds. On heroic I have seen more often that the tank/s stand outside of the big stack. If the tanks don't turn him far enough you get stuck in no mans land, not able to shred from the "Front" or the back. If thats the case see if you can convince the tanks to take small step to their left or right (however you guys handle it) and see if that improves matters for you.
- Trinket wise is a real mess. For full dps SIM's put UW and EotC 372 as the best pair. However since most fights aren't patchwork, or even Atramedes style fights, real life doesn't always work like the SIM. Other combos that folks have had good success with seem to depend on the rest of their reforging choices. If trying to hit the hit/exp caps FD + EotC is a favored combo due to the high hit + master + agi. FD is also very effective as a mixed role trinket. The high agi helps both specs, and you can reforge the Hit to Mastery. This will benifit both cat and bear (I know mastery isn't the best stat for bears, but it at least will help both specs). The UW trinket itself SIM's well but suffers from constant target changes which can waste the entire buff, or only get limited use out of it. It really is not an effective bear trinket.

Gear wise I have a few suggestions. All of these suggestions assume you are using this gear for both tanking and dps. Currently you are wearing your Chef's hat. I saw before you were wearing the enineering goggles, but I didn't see your cogs. Your Meloriak cloak is unenchanted, you should get 22 agi on it. For your boots, if you spend a lot of time in bear you might think about getting the 25 agi/speed enchant. It may be less dps for cat and bear, but at least you will be faster when in bear form. You are not using your third JC gem. 67 agi Do It Now! Replace the glove enchant with 50 strength. 50 mastery is a dps loss for cat, and the extra AP from the strength will still help your shields by adding 132 ap (till 4.2 at least). Reforge your FD to mastery.

Spec wise I also have a few suggestions. Skipping on Master Shapeshifter is a loss for both specs. Here are some areas I would suggest taking some points out of to make sure you pick up MSS. Blood in the Water is great if you are staying cat non stop for the last 25%. If you find that you are shifting to bear any time during that last 25% it's likely the BitW is going to be wasted. You can also think about removing Infected wounds. This won't help your DPS any, and can cause issues with adds if you aren't doing the kiting yourself (Meloriak Vile Swill, Cho'Gall Adherents). You could also take a point out of Pulverize. Based on your last logs you only had a 10% up time for the night. If you keep shifting out of bear form often you are losing vengence, and Pulverize will become less effective. I would also swap out the Lacerate Glyph and the Mangle glyph with Shred and Rip. Mangle and Lacerate don't add much save a little threat, and are really bad for cat. If all you are doing is taunting the boss off for short times then you won't really need the small amount of threat they give.

Hope this helps you out some. If you have any other questions let me know.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Fatherbone » Tue May 31, 2011 11:31 pm

Hey dudes... I've been playing a feral since late BC, I love it.

Very casual player, only mainly run heroics... Just looking for some general advice and what to pick up next with my VP points. Don't know if this is the right thread.

Thanks for the help!

Fatherbone
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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:40 am

Fatherbone wrote:Hey dudes... I've been playing a feral since late BC, I love it.

Very casual player, only mainly run heroics... Just looking for some general advice and what to pick up next with my VP points. Don't know if this is the right thread.

Thanks for the help!

Fatherbone
Terenas

Hi Father. Welcome to the community.

This would be the correct thread. I would recomend you going for the FD and replace your Alch stone. Make sure to reforge the hit to mastery. Next I would get the boots, followed by the cloak or ring (doesn't matter which) and last the relic.

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