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4.2 changes

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby shinryu » Tue May 31, 2011 10:57 pm

Floofles wrote:Well look at it like this, have you enjoyed the current tier of what was effectively 25 bosses?

A tier where most fights were impossible on 10 man for a couple of months, a tier where a couple of bosses were unkillable on 25 man without exploiting and a tier that seems to have made more guilds disband than any previous tier i've seen.

7 bosses is still a total of 14 things you'll need to progress on, sure they aren't different bosses and that's not particularly fantastic, but it's better than the horrible grind that was T11.

Depends, for me there will only ever be 12, as Heroic modes are just a boring time waste if you ask me; I mean, I go along with the guild and our attempts at them, but they personally don't interest me in the slightest. Not to mention as ever next tier of raiding is aimed at the reg mode of gearing as opposed to relying on people clearing the heroics, just about any upgrade now will be a waste in a month or two, whereas right now I'm happily in a near-bis setup for reg and am content with that entering firelands. But that's my view, I know plenty of people see heroic modes/progression and like them, but for me they're just stupid; I'd sooner just upgrade the difficulty on Mortal Kombat if I wanted a challenge rather than slam my face against the mmo equivalent.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:39 pm

Blizzard has posted a possible end date of Season 9 (6/21). Season 10 will be starting 1 week after the end of Season 9. As most of us know this usually is the same date as the new teir patch. This means we could be seeing 4.2 as soon as 6/28. Because they have not set a firm date things could slip another week meanding 7/5.
Link to the announcment: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/179704/pvp-season-9-ending-soon

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Cuer » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:19 pm

4.2 is definitely getting close. It could actually land on June 21; they usually wrap up the arena season and have a week with the new patch, before the next season goes live.

One little "bug fix" from the latest round of the 4.2 patch notes, for ferals (Warrior's Charge was similarly changed):
It is no longer possible in some encounters to use Feral Charge when closer than its minimum range.

So, no more using that for bosses like Chimaeron.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby shinryu » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:50 pm

And I was so thinking July...eh, the sooner the better then again. 2 weeks then...I will be so happy to stop these lame ass heroic modes.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Floofles » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:36 am

Cuer wrote:4.2 is definitely getting close. It could actually land on June 21; they usually wrap up the arena season and have a week with the new patch, before the next season goes live.

One little "bug fix" from the latest round of the 4.2 patch notes, for ferals (Warrior's Charge was similarly changed):
It is no longer possible in some encounters to use Feral Charge when closer than its minimum range.

So, no more using that for bosses like Chimaeron.



This is actually a very substantial nerf. Though no bosses were chargable in Firelands anyway, this contributed an awful awful lot to DPS on around half of the encounters in T11.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Qbear » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:14 am

It was never meant to be anyway most likely the reason they never went to fix it is the fact that we've been so statistically low throughout T11 anyway. Personally I'm ready for Firelands this content is getting old.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Suhmon » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:50 am

This fix was kind of disheartening. I knew it would happen, but it's gonna be a bit of a dps loss. But at least firecat form is up on the ptr so we can look pretty to make ourselves feel better. I just hope they change it a bit. Take the 2 hour cooldown off the staff or make it so once it activates by going in combat, it stays until cancelled. I never wanna NOT be a firecat! =P

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Konungr » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:49 am

@ Suhmon, it has a 2 hour cooldown normally and then it auto shifts and de-shift upon entering/leaving combat.

Ravage! contributes anywhere from 2-6% dps on fights like Chimaeron. /sadface.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Sylvaneart » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:54 am

The FC change is a biggy. I think Leaf caculated it out to 1200dps on Chim so ;( With proper timing it was also good on Nef and so many more. I can say i saw this coming also. I wonder if they are changing some of the hitboxes along with this?
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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Cuer » Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:31 am

The FC change was definitely a long time coming. Personally, I'd rather see decent DPS because the class is set up to do fine when played properly, not from exploiting a hitbox bug that shows up on a few bosses.

The hitbox issue is a constant one; having it larger for bosses makes it nicer for all the melee, but more annoying for Hunters, depending on the mechanics of that boss. The game mechanics have gotten a bit better for that, at least, compared to some of the older raids.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Sylvaneart » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:15 pm

Cuer wrote:The FC change was definitely a long time coming. Personally, I'd rather see decent DPS because the class is set up to do fine when played properly, not from exploiting a hitbox bug that shows up on a few bosses.

The hitbox issue is a constant one; having it larger for bosses makes it nicer for all the melee, but more annoying for Hunters, depending on the mechanics of that boss. The game mechanics have gotten a bit better for that, at least, compared to some of the older raids.



Lets take Chim. If you FC you end up in the middle of him. If they keep the same hit box he has you will need to run a LONG way to be at FC range again. The fights with broken FC also had/have huge hitboxes.
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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Qbear » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:22 pm

Nah see what happens was for any fight where the strat calls for the raid to stack they took away the hunters minimum range to avoid the old marrowgar nightmares of hunters getting bone prisoned outside the raid group. When they took away the minimum range for hunters it also happen to go away for charge. It was a good dps boost but it seems they found away to fix it so hunters can stack and dps for fueds, blackouts, cho'gal mc's without having feral get their free charge ravage.

This change is in 4.2 of course. As Floofles already said none of the fights in Firelands had this very sexy bug, so it's really nothing to focus to much energy on.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Lax » Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:18 pm

Here it is:
http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=97678

Procs if you are in cat form wearing:
http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=71466

I guess we will have to fight the hunters to keep their filthy fingers off that staff :)

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Suhmon » Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:18 pm

Konungr wrote:@ Suhmon, it has a 2 hour cooldown normally and then it auto shifts and de-shift upon entering/leaving combat.



I know, I'm just greedy. I want it to be on all the time until cancelled. I want to still be on fire between pulls =P.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:26 pm

Well that convinces me. There will be no more innervates or brez's out of me. Sorry I will lose to much DPS not being a giant flamming ball of claws.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Monopedia » Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:09 pm

Can somebody confirm the staff details, I've seen so many reports on it that I have no idea what is correct.
So it kinda works like Worgen forms? You are forced in to and appear as a Flame cat at all times (while in cat form) the instant combat starts and as long as you are in combat, when combat ends the flame cat model returns to the baseline racial model. This way it has no cooldown and shifting out and back in to cat form at any point during combat keeps the flame cat form active?

The 2 hour cooldown 'Use' effect is separate from the combat form and is just for 'epeening' to make the 'armor' classes jealous?

I can live with the 2 hour cooldown out of combat (though I think its a bit silly) as long as we get to look awesome in combat with no cooldown and actually being some sort of raid utility does not stop it. We got screwed over with SotP 4 piece buff ending when we left cat form to Rebirth/Innervate/Tranquility, lets please not have them make the same mistake again with something so awesome looking!

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby felhoof » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:01 pm

The staff has a use effect. You can use it like any other random vanity item, where it grants you a buff that lasts until dispelled that turns you into a firecat, with a 2h CD. The buff is dispelled if you go out of cat or zone, much like all other vanity buffs.

In addition, whenever you have the staff equipped and go into combat as a cat, your form is firecat. This requires no clicking and happens automatically.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Suhmon » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:12 am

The buff isn't removed if you go out of cat.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby shinryu » Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:55 am

felhoof wrote:The staff has a use effect. You can use it like any other random vanity item, where it grants you a buff that lasts until dispelled that turns you into a firecat, with a 2h CD. The buff is dispelled if you go out of cat or zone, much like all other vanity buffs.

In addition, whenever you have the staff equipped and go into combat as a cat, your form is firecat. This requires no clicking and happens automatically.

What do you mean if you go out of zone? Like, using a hearthstone back to town or something? Because that's not what happens with stuff like savory deviate delight and such, unless those are different?

Either way, makes you wonder why they just don't make it a perma buff when equiped, seriously why they have these lame fucking long ass CDs on vanity items almost makes them not worth using at all, especially when they have no practical application besides looking neat...

Finally, I assume reg version will grant the buff as well? Bad enough this likely drops off Staghelm (basically the 2nd to last boss), and having to fight off hunters for it, though I think I'll have a talk with ours; there's some crappy polearm he can have that drops off a sooner boss isn't there?

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Monopedia » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:21 am

Thanks for clearing that up.

shinryu wrote:Either way, makes you wonder why they just don't make it a perma buff when equiped, seriously why they have these lame fucking long ass CDs on vanity items almost makes them not worth using at all, especially when they have no practical application besides looking neat...

They have said Items/effects like this have large cooldowns to stop them feeling 'basic'. If you are able to spam use an item it loses its novelty, especially when most people have it. I partially agree with them in this case because eventually almost every druid (all 3 specs) will have this staff and everywhere you look there will be druids sitting in Flame cat form, you won't know if they are Nelf, Worgen, Troll or Tauren (from looking at the model alone). The gimmick would die out, very quickly.

Though the cooldown length is over the top (understatement) for a class who needs to leave cat form to do almost everything. I'd like to see it as a simple on use effect that switches you between the 2 cat forms, both in combat and out. Similar to how the Vanilla Priest epic quest Staff worked, this way each druid has the option of their model without the 'pain' of waiting 2 hours again.
As awesome as Flame Cat is, if it was a full time cosmetic change then we would be back to the days pre skin updates for feral forms, nothing to make us look 'unique' at all. While its not much, running around Stormwind and Orgrimmar seeing cats of different races with all of the hair/fur color combinations is quite nice and is at least better than it was when all cats looked the same. Keep in mind that while it is a nice indication of the feral's raid progression, as far as we know there is no way to know, without inspecting, if they have heroic or normal - I'm hoping the heroic version gives us the armored Flame Cat.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Beanna » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:41 am

shinryu wrote:and having to fight off hunters for it, though I think I'll have a talk with ours; there's some crappy polearm he can have that drops off a sooner boss isn't there?

You should never need to fight with hunters for a melee weapon. If they are not smart enough to understand that melee weapons are only stats sticks for them while the weaponDPS EP is pretty high for every melee char, then just teach them how the game works or explain it to your guildmaster. It would never come to mind giving a powerful ranged weapon to a rogue or a warrior prior to a hunter so it should be the same way for a staff or a polearm.

I can't believe that some guild leaders still don't understand those basic maths nowadays...

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Sylvaneart » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:03 pm

Beanna wrote:
shinryu wrote:and having to fight off hunters for it, though I think I'll have a talk with ours; there's some crappy polearm he can have that drops off a sooner boss isn't there?

You should never need to fight with hunters for a melee weapon. If they are not smart enough to understand that melee weapons are only stats sticks for them while the weaponDPS EP is pretty high for every melee char, then just teach them how the game works or explain it to your guildmaster. It would never come to mind giving a powerful ranged weapon to a rogue or a warrior prior to a hunter so it should be the same way for a staff or a polearm.

I can't believe that some guild leaders still don't understand those basic maths nowadays...


My guild leaders understand this and also use DKP. If a hunter wants it and has more then me i might lose this:(. No upgrades for me until it drops. SCREW THE RAID I WILL BE FIRE CAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Konungr » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:13 pm

Sylvaneart wrote:
Beanna wrote:
shinryu wrote:and having to fight off hunters for it, though I think I'll have a talk with ours; there's some crappy polearm he can have that drops off a sooner boss isn't there?

You should never need to fight with hunters for a melee weapon. If they are not smart enough to understand that melee weapons are only stats sticks for them while the weaponDPS EP is pretty high for every melee char, then just teach them how the game works or explain it to your guildmaster. It would never come to mind giving a powerful ranged weapon to a rogue or a warrior prior to a hunter so it should be the same way for a staff or a polearm.

I can't believe that some guild leaders still don't understand those basic maths nowadays...


My guild leaders understand this and also use DKP. If a hunter wants it and has more then me i might lose this:(. No upgrades for me until it drops. SCREW THE RAID I WILL BE FIRE CAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Offer to buy all the hunters the BoE polearm that drops from the trash.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby felhoof » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:21 pm

What do you mean if you go out of zone? Like, using a hearthstone back to town or something? Because that's not what happens with stuff like savory deviate delight and such, unless those are different?
Exactly. Like hearthing, or leaving an instance, or anythign like that.

While the 2h CD is long, you immediately go into cat form as soon as you start attacking again as long as you have it equipped. So it's not so bad for this tier. Later on it'll be mostly a vanity 'turn myself into iron dwarf/naga/whatever' type of thing.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Sylvaneart » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:29 pm

Hey Fel if I am in SW and i have it equiped, walk over to target dummy and hit it I'll go FIRE CAT!!!!! If I then stay in cat form and walk away but stay in SW I will keep FIRECAT form?
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