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4.2 changes

Face-rippin fun.
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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby felhoof » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:36 pm

I think as soon as you leave combat you revert unless you've used the on-use ability.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Sylvaneart » Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:05 pm

Interesting. The pics posts are just that pics. Has anyone seen a vid? Do you leave fire pawprints when walking.
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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Puna » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:21 pm

Image

you gain the buff upon entering combat, as soon as combat ends you revert back to your normal form.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Sylvaneart » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:42 pm

My god that is beautiful. I might cry.
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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Qbear » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:42 pm

I don't know I sort of wish it happened the the first time you enter combat and use a 5 cp finisher.

Hear me out. To me I just can't help but think of the old NBA Jam at 3 cps they could add a sound file he's heating up and as soon as you land that 5 cp rip he's on fire ::BOOM:: Fire Cat!

Yeah thats how much free time I have to sit around and think bout that sort of stuff.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby BigTwoHorns » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:17 pm

Found this on Wowhead News. Might be a little behind the times but haven't heard about it yet.

http://www.wowheadnews.com/blog=190194/patch-4-2-crystallized-firestones-used-to-upgrade-gear-into-heroic-ilevels
A GOOD PLAN VIOLENTLY EXECUTED NOW IS BETTER THAN A PERFECT PLAN EXECUTED NEXT WEEK.
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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby shinryu » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:18 pm

Kinda old news though I dunno if anyone posted that here. It's...different...I guess we'll be upgrading fire cat staff first before anything else right? Then probably work on trinkets or tier pieces...

Ok, so for the staff, after trying to figure out all that's been posted, it works akin to this?

-Equip staff
-Use staff
-Enter combat, turn into fire kitty
-Leave combat, back to reg for, but turns back into fire when you re-enter

Man it's gonna suck if you die though...guessing then you'll be stuck with lame cat form for the length of the CD.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Floofles » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:23 pm

The use is seperate, every time you hit something in combat you become fire cat.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Cuer » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:26 pm

The 4.2 patch notes were updated again, with more cat changes and explanations added. Here are the cat sections of changes:

Druids now gain 1 attack power per point of Strength, down from 2. They continue to gain 2 attack power per point of Agility while in Cat Form or Bear Form. In addition, Cat Form’s scaling rate from gear upgrades was slower than other classes, which was causing them to fall behind in damage with higher item levels. To counter the Strength change and improve scaling, the following changes have been made. All numbers cited are for level-85 druids.
  • Ferocious Bite damage has been increased by 15%. In addition, its base cost has been reduced to 25 energy and it can use up to 25 energy, for up to a 100% damage increase.
  • Mangle (Cat) damage has been increased to 540% weapon damage, up from 460%, and bonus damage has been lowered to 302.
  • Rake initial damage on hit now deals the same damage as each periodic tick (and is treated the same for all combat calculations). Periodic damage now gains 14.7% of attack power per tick, up from 12.6%, and base damage per tick has been lowered from 557 to 56. There is a known issue with Rake’s tooltip being incorrect from this change will be corrected in a future patch.
  • Ravage damage has been increased to 950% weapon damage, up from 850%, and bonus damage has been lowered to 532.
  • Savage Roar now grants 80% increased damage to melee auto attacks, up from 50%. The Glyph of Savage Roar remains an unchanged bonus of 5% to that total.
  • Shred damage has been increased to 520% weapon damage, up from 450%, and bonus damage has been lowered to 302.

Some more / different numbers to crunch there, as they get close to final release of the patch.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby BigTwoHorns » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:48 pm

So does this mean that the Savage Roar Glyph may have more utilization?
A GOOD PLAN VIOLENTLY EXECUTED NOW IS BETTER THAN A PERFECT PLAN EXECUTED NEXT WEEK.
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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby felhoof » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:23 pm

That's a pretty huge change to SR. It's not clear to me whether or not the glyph will also be updated.

Looking at a recent high-ranked parse by floofles on Chimaeron:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-b ... 270&e=1590

He had 94% uptime on SR and melee was 17.7% of his total. An additional 30% SR boost would make that:

Total normalized SR damage = .94*1.5 / (.94*1.5 + .06 * 1.0) = .959184
17.7 * (.959184) * 80/50 = 27.16408

Making this about a 10% DPS gain for ferals (from that parse) in absolute terms and a 60% gain in DPS for melee.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:26 pm

Are you taking into account the strength loss in regards to the white damge? Not that I am complaining, I think its a good change.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby felhoof » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:36 pm

No, I wasn't - I was just comparing directly what that change was to give a rough estimate on a fight with a lot of melee damage.

With the strength nerf that's probably closer to the 5% bump ferals got, but it's still very good. Note that the SR glyph was unchanged (5%), so it has no specific extra value.

Sims are looking like haste is going to be the #1 stat for standstill fights.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby BigTwoHorns » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:40 pm

If all that pans out from the Parse you posted then our melee damage may be higher on the priority list giving the changes in the other three come 4.2. Since Haste is better at higher ilvl then we may in for the win. Right or Wrong?
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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Suhmon » Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:26 pm

I'm glad Blizzard is getting smart about this. I suggested a while back that they should just use Savage Roar as the dial to increase our damage without screwing up PvP.

Not sure how the rake change is gonna come out, but it seems like a pretty big buff considering how hard rake hits. Does that mean an application of rake can crit for like 15k or so? That's pretty hot.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby felhoof » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:17 pm

While I haven't tested it, I also suspect that the initial hit of rake will also ignore armor completely. This is similar to how thrash works right now.

It should also mean that using rake early will not be so big of a loss.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Fonia » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:22 pm

felhoof wrote:That's a pretty huge change to SR. It's not clear to me whether or not the glyph will also be updated.

Looking at a recent high-ranked parse by floofles on Chimaeron:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-b ... 270&e=1590

He had 94% uptime on SR and melee was 17.7% of his total. An additional 30% SR boost would make that:

Total normalized SR damage = .94*1.5 / (.94*1.5 + .06 * 1.0) = .959184
17.7 * (.959184) * 80/50 = 27.16408

Making this about a 10% DPS gain for ferals (from that parse) in absolute terms and a 60% gain in DPS for melee.



I think your math is a little bit off there.

For the sake of argument, I'm just going to assume 100% uptime on SR. Not true of course, but 94% close enough to get a general estimate.

First get rid of damage from current savage roar. 17.7%/1.5=11.8, which is the non-savage roar portion of his damage.

Then multiply that by the new savage roar modifier. 11.8*1.8=21.24. So this is overall a 3.5% dps gain (again, from that parse).

In strict terms, it's a 20% increase to our white damage, rather than a 60% increase.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby felhoof » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:41 pm

Ah, you're right; instead of multiplying by 8/5 I should be multiplying by 18/15. Doing that results in a 20.37% gain, which is significantly lower (but still very strong).

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Fonia » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:46 pm

Will be interesting to see how much of a gain the patch as a whole will be, between the SR buff, Str nerf, Weap dmg % buffs, and bonus damage nerfs. If nothing else, all of the nerfs were to non-scaling stuff, and all of the buffs are to things that scale.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby ShmooDude » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:54 pm

Edit: Numbers will be a bit off because I forgot to account for aggression, oh well... Still a decent sized buff.

Some napkin math (gear is mostly 372 w/ 4pt11):

Shred:

Unbuffed (ignoring RnT + Mangle as they're both percentage buffs):
Weapon Damage = 1725- 2008 (1866.5 avg)
Weapon Damage - 167 AP = 1854.6 avg

4.1 = 450% of 1866.5 + 1490 = 9889.25
4.2 = 540% of 1854.6 + 302 = 10316.84 (+427.59 or 4.3%)

Buffed (stats from Rawr, hopefully I'm doing everything right):
Weapon Damage = 2381.8 avg
Weapon Damage - 699 AP = 2331.9 avg

4.1 = 450% of 2381.8 + 1490 = 12208.1
4.2 = 540% of 2331.9 + 302 = 12894.26 (+686.16 or 5.6%)

Mangle:

Unbuffed:
4.1 = 10034.9
4.2 = 10316.8 (+281.9 or 2.8%)

Buffed:
4.1 = 12405.3
4.2 = 12894.3 (+489.0 or 3.9%)

Rake (I expect this one to be quite large as the initial hit got a HUGE buff):

4.1 = AP * 2.07% + 273 + 557 * 3 + AP * 37.8%
4.2 = 56 * 4 + AP * 58.8%

Unbuffed:
4.1 = 8436.4 (remember this is no mangle and pre-mastery; full duration including initial hit)
4.2 = 9700.8 (+1264.4 or 15.0%)

Buffed:
4.1 = 11311.9
4.2 = 13628.6 (+2316.7 or 20.5%)

Savage Roar (no glyph):

Unbufed:
4.1 = 2799.75
4.2 = 3338.28 (+538.53 or 19.2%)

Buffed:
4.1 = 3572.7
4.2 = 4197.42 (+624.72 or 17.5%)

Rip (for completeness to show the effect of the str nerf):

Both Patches = 56 + 161 * 5 + 10.35% * AP * 8

Unbuffed:
4.1 = 14344.2
4.2 = 14205.9 (-138.3 or -1%)

Buffed:
4.1 = 20315.7
4.2 = 19736.9 (-578.8 or -2.8%)

Going by the following "rough" breakdown (should be close enough for a general idea):
25% Rip
25% Shred
25% Melee + Fury Swipes
20% Rake
5% Mangle
Ignoring FB

25% decreased by 2.8% = 24.3%
25% increased by 5.6% = 26.4%
25% increased by 17.5% = 29.375%
20% increased by 20.5% = 24.1%
5% increased by 3.9% = 5.195%

Total = 109.37%

Or roughly a 9% boost. I was guessing 10% so assuming I did the math right not too shabby. If it goes live as is, I'll be one happy kitty.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby shinryu » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:17 am

Only took them about 6 months to finalize realize we weren't scaling properly despite everyone saying so? Dumb devs...

Still, a buff is a buff, I like buffs :D

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby shinryu » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:20 am

Floofles wrote:The use is seperate, every time you hit something in combat you become fire cat.

Oh ok...so basically, if equipped by feral druid, we morph into fire cat everytime, and if it's used by, say, a huntard or other random staff-wielding class, they blow a 2 hr CD just to look like a fire cat then? Well as long as we get perma fire cat, I won't complain.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Suhmon » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:23 am

Nobody else gets the firecat form. Activating it just give druids a buff when they shift into cat form. If you don't have a cat form, you can never be a firecat.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby shinryu » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:42 am

Suhmon wrote:Nobody else gets the firecat form. Activating it just give druids a buff when they shift into cat form. If you don't have a cat form, you can never be a firecat.

I thought someone said it had an on-use effect for just in general? >.>

What can I say, everyone seems to be saying something different...guess I'll just wait till it actually comes out.

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Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Suhmon » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:51 am

Ok, here's how it works. If the staff is equipped, anytime you enter combat, you go into firecat form and stay there until combat is over. Then you return to normal cat form.

If you have the staff equipped you can also right click it to give yourself a buff that lasts until cancelled or killed. This buff makes it so anytime you shift into cat form, you become a firecat.

There are two different effects so that you can always be a firecat in combat, or have the buff whenever you want, just on a 2 hour cooldown atm which I hope goes away.

The buff only changes cat form, it doesn't actually turn you into a firecat automatically. If you do not have a cat form, you cannot become a firecat. Therefore nobody else can get it but druids.

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