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Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Nepplol » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:41 am

Hi everyone, just before 4.2 hits I'd appreciate some insight on recent logs. What could I improve ?

Armory Link : http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/Nepp/advanced Hit value seems bugged imo.

WoL : http://worldoflogs.com/reports/3ogkw7ysklhtj4ge/

I toy around my T11 4p shoulders offset and exp capped or chest offset depending the nature of fight. Same as FD or UW.

Thanks !

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:13 pm

At first glance Nep you seem to be doing great. I will need a little more time to go through the logs, but with the success you are having I have a feeling not a lot of changes will be required.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Jheusse » Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:21 pm

Short comment for Virilana regarding the opening on Nef.

In our 25 man group, we open the fight standing up on the balcony and ranged pulling Nef in the air. We enter combat but stay on the balcony. After about 10 seconds both bosses despawn because no one is below. We then all jump down to the pillar and then to the floor. This gives us 15-20 seconds to get arranged and the tank to position to pick up Ony when they respawn, it's a huge help. If I'm double-potting I hover over the button for my pot and the moment I see Ony I hit it, I usually am successful before entering combat. Of course I end up having to cower mid-berserk or I pull off of our warrior tank who takes some ramp up time on Ony. I've also noticed the southern pillar is easier to click on the add before the lava comes up over my head than the northeast one (never been on NW).

I'll be asking some input on my performance at some point, I've been reading and lurking here forever, but haven't had anything meriting comment before, and my performance is a little hampered by burnout and farming (we've down 3 heroic 25 man bosses), so I'll have to wake up a bit to have a review-worthy log.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Sylvaneart » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:49 pm

I just tab to the pillar add. never have any problems with it
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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Clearwaters » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:28 pm

Omnitron Question:

For most target switching fights best tip for keeping bleeds up is know when you need to switch. If you know you have about 10 seconds left, build up 5 combos and refresh rip and rake right before you swap. If you are worried you might not have energy, don't shred. Having the bleeds continue to tick will be a much better energy use.


If you refresh your bleeds right before the switches in the Omnitron fight, do the bleeds count as attacks against their shields?

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby mekell » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:38 pm

Yes they count, but assuming your bleeds are the only dot left on the target, they will not do enough damage alone to break the shield if they were refreshed BEFORE the shield went up.

Someone can correct me if i am wrong, but if they are refreshed after the shield pops, then you will break the shield or run the risk of it.
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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Clearwaters » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:51 pm

Thanks for the Omnitron answer!

Virilana wrote:A big problem I have with that part is getting up on the pillar. If I try to get up in cat form I go right over it, once I can finally get out of the lava haha. I've been trying jumping out unshapeshifted, which makes it a lot easier. The only problem is that first interrupt, the paladin tank on the platform with me usually grabs the first one, but really its just whichever of us can get up there first, and I've been struggling with getting up there, shapeshifting again, targeting the add instead of the hunters pet >.< and then getting it off.


Question: Can we kitties feral charge to the adds on the pillars or do we run in to LoS issues? What if we swim to the top of the lava?

Notice: Can you tell that I'm a healer and have a kitty off-spec...I get tired of healing all the time though...

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:58 pm

mekell wrote:Yes they count, but assuming your bleeds are the only dot left on the target, they will not do enough damage alone to break the shield if they were refreshed BEFORE the shield went up.

Someone can correct me if i am wrong, but if they are refreshed after the shield pops, then you will break the shield or run the risk of it.

If your bleed is applied before the shield comes up the damage will not break the shield. Any direct damage or dot refresh after the shield comes up will cause a break. Just make sure you refresh before the shield and you will be golden.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:00 pm

Clearwaters wrote:Thanks for the Omnitron answer!

Virilana wrote:Question: Can we kitties feral charge to the adds on the pillars or do we run in to LoS issues? What if we swim to the top of the lava?

Notice: Can you tell that I'm a healer and have a kitty off-spec...I get tired of healing all the time though...

You will likely get LOS issues with both Skull Bash and Feral Charge until you get up on the platform.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby mekell » Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:13 pm

Thanks for that clarification, Tinder. I just assumed it wasnt enough damage to break it, not that it wouldnt break it at all.
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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Skamper » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:36 am

Hi,

I have been reading this forum trying to learn to improve for my guilds heroic raiding and finally came up with enough courage to risk posting some of my embarrassing logs for advice and help.

To be honest I am still mostly lost. Specifically I am uncertain of the best way to complete my t11 4set bonus, I currently have not been able to win the normal helm from Nef, and we have not yet gotten to heroic attempts on Nef.

Tonight we did our first attempts at heroic Magemaw and the WoL for them is:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-3 ... 14&e=11684
After 3 hours of attempts we did actually kill him yay^^.

During these attempts I was asked to help dps the constructs, and unfortunately for grouping I was specifically asked to not run behind them for shredding. However, mid way through the evening we did start having magemaw turned enough such that I was able to shred on him "except for the occasional crash on the melle side etc."

Frankly I felt that I had a very hard time keeping good rip rake and SR uptimes, and it did not help that rip would be extremely inconsistent as to when it would drop off, I even caught it dropping off several seconds before the debuff bars showed it should, which adding a bad rng miss or dodge really is annoying.

Mostly for constructs I was attempting the 5 point rip then return to boss, except after expose phase in which we had to catch up 2-3 construct.

I could not really time berserk+pot+trinket with heroism as these progression fights were so varied as to how long or how far into them we managed each attempt and heroism was being held till the expose phase crossing the transition into phase 2, so I eventually just decided to use the pot combo on the first berserk, just to get it used in the attempt.

I realize magemaw might not be the ideal fight to analyze for overall Kitty help, but perhaps it is good enough for help dealing with kitty dps in the topsy turvy progression fights?

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:47 am

Skamper wrote:Hi,

I have been reading this forum trying to learn to improve for my guilds heroic raiding and finally came up with enough courage to risk posting some of my embarrassing logs for advice and help.

To be honest I am still mostly lost. Specifically I am uncertain of the best way to complete my t11 4set bonus, I currently have not been able to win the normal helm from Nef, and we have not yet gotten to heroic attempts on Nef.

Tonight we did our first attempts at heroic Magemaw and the WoL for them is:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-3 ... 14&e=11684
After 3 hours of attempts we did actually kill him yay^^.

During these attempts I was asked to help dps the constructs, and unfortunately for grouping I was specifically asked to not run behind them for shredding. However, mid way through the evening we did start having magemaw turned enough such that I was able to shred on him "except for the occasional crash on the melle side etc."

Frankly I felt that I had a very hard time keeping good rip rake and SR uptimes, and it did not help that rip would be extremely inconsistent as to when it would drop off, I even caught it dropping off several seconds before the debuff bars showed it should, which adding a bad rng miss or dodge really is annoying.

Mostly for constructs I was attempting the 5 point rip then return to boss, except after expose phase in which we had to catch up 2-3 construct.

I could not really time berserk+pot+trinket with heroism as these progression fights were so varied as to how long or how far into them we managed each attempt and heroism was being held till the expose phase crossing the transition into phase 2, so I eventually just decided to use the pot combo on the first berserk, just to get it used in the attempt.

I realize magemaw might not be the ideal fight to analyze for overall Kitty help, but perhaps it is good enough for help dealing with kitty dps in the topsy turvy progression fights?


Hey Skamper. Welcome to the community.

First off there is no one here who is going to make fun of you. Anyone who comes here asking for help will be always be treated with respect.

After looking at your logs there really isn't anything to be embarrassed about. For a first kill you did great. You were keeping rake up on the constructs and on Magmaw. Your rip up time as you noticed could be better, but that really comes with getting used to the fight. You potted during the head phase and before berserk so you did just about everything you should be doing.

Just keep up with watching your timers and don't worry to much about it falling off the constructs they die so fast anyway. Pratice will make perfect, you are doing just fine.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Triplebuses » Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:44 am

Hi everyone and greetings from France !

Here's my armory link : http://eu.battle.net/wow/fr/character/e ... ant/simple
Gloves and legs were not heroic last night.

WoL from our yesterday raid : http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7azfqn3rd6u5cb4c/

During the Omnitron encounter I was on interrupt duty on Arcanotron.
On Magmaw we had to stop DPS to reach the 30% when his head is down.
On Maloriak we also stopped DPS to see a 2nd Green Phase.

Any tips/advices would be greatly appreciated ;)

Thanks,

Tri.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby CaptainCub » Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:51 am

Tinderhoof wrote:If your bleed is applied before the shield comes up the damage will not break the shield. Any direct damage or dot refresh after the shield comes up will cause a break. Just make sure you refresh before the shield and you will be golden.

For completeness' sake, you should not refresh your Dots on Magmatron past 50% (more like 55% to be completely safe) because they will likely still be ticking when he activates his shield, which functions just like PW:S and 150K damage absorbed is not much if everyone leaves their Dots on him.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:30 pm

CaptainCub wrote:For completeness' sake, you should not refresh your Dots on Magmatron past 50% (more like 55% to be completely safe) because they will likely still be ticking when he activates his shield, which functions just like PW:S and 150K damage absorbed is not much if everyone leaves their Dots on him.

This is incorrect. Any dot damage applied before the shield (of any Tron) goes up will NOT affect the shield in any way. Direct damage or a dot refreashed after the shield goes up will count towards breaking the shield.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Konungr » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:34 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:
CaptainCub wrote:For completeness' sake, you should not refresh your Dots on Magmatron past 50% (more like 55% to be completely safe) because they will likely still be ticking when he activates his shield, which functions just like PW:S and 150K damage absorbed is not much if everyone leaves their Dots on him.

This is incorrect. Any dot damage applied before the shield (of any Tron) goes up will NOT affect the shield in any way. Direct damage or a dot refreashed after the shield goes up will count towards breaking the shield.



Magma's shield is the only one that is affected by Existing DoT damage, IIRC.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:25 pm

Konungr wrote:
Tinderhoof wrote:
CaptainCub wrote:For completeness' sake, you should not refresh your Dots on Magmatron past 50% (more like 55% to be completely safe) because they will likely still be ticking when he activates his shield, which functions just like PW:S and 150K damage absorbed is not much if everyone leaves their Dots on him.

This is incorrect. Any dot damage applied before the shield (of any Tron) goes up will NOT affect the shield in any way. Direct damage or a dot refreashed after the shield goes up will count towards breaking the shield.



Magma's shield is the only one that is affected by Existing DoT damage, IIRC.


•Barrier - Absorbs 450000 damage and if the barrier is broken it releases a gale of flame, inflicting 73125 to 76875 Fire damage to all enemies. Lasts 10 seconds. (Value is the same for Heroic and Normal)

It seems that it does take extra damage. However refreshing your dot's just before the shield will still not break it. Even at 100% crit you wouldn't even do 1/3 of the damage required to do any harm.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby CaptainCub » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:21 am

Tinderhoof wrote:It seems that it does take extra damage. However refreshing your dot's just before the shield will still not break it. Even at 100% crit you wouldn't even do 1/3 of the damage required to do any harm.

Right... but if everyone is doing the same, the barrier will blow up and it has in my case and that nasty little add-on reported me as top offender since I have the strongest DoTs (it was too tempting not to bite in the BITW phase ;) )

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:23 pm

Triplebuses wrote:Hi everyone and greetings from France !

Here's my armory link : http://eu.battle.net/wow/fr/character/e ... ant/simple
Gloves and legs were not heroic last night.

WoL from our yesterday raid : http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7azfqn3rd6u5cb4c/

During the Omnitron encounter I was on interrupt duty on Arcanotron.
On Magmaw we had to stop DPS to reach the 30% when his head is down.
On Maloriak we also stopped DPS to see a 2nd Green Phase.
k
Any tips/advices would be greatly appreciated ;)

Thanks,

Tri.

Hi Tri. Welcome to the community.

Man its rough being a feral having to interrupt Arcanotron. You have my sympathy.

Gear - It looks like you are trying to get a few socket bonuses that are not worth it. The shoulder gem slot is just better to have a 40 agi gem in it. Also for your pants, if you get the socket only get 60 agi out of the deal (40 from the gems and 20 from the bonus), instead of 80 agi if you just use two 40 gems. Also looks like you are not using one of your JC gems. It's free agi, so make sure you are using all 3.

Fight Suggestions:
Omnitron - You have a few spots when you are switching to Arcanotron were it looks like bleeds drop off for a while. I know you are going to get suck not having to dps him during his shield so bleeds dropping off between switching off him is expected. Try to really keep up the refreshing when you swap targets. This is going to continue to be importent in Firelands so it's always good to get in the habit if you can. It also looked like you only used Berserk once. Using it on the pull may not be possible for threat reasons, but you should use it as often as you can.

Magmaw - I am not sure I understand why you are having to stop to wait for the head to go down. I mean you should be able to go non stop with no issues. But that aside you did a pretty good job here. A few times were the rip up time was a little low, but sometimes the bone adds just don't help you out. I would suggest that you hold your first berserk for the first head phase and not for the pull. Also when you use your second pot make sure you use it Before you hit berserk. Because you have 25 seconds of the pot but only 20 seconds of berserk(assuming glyph) you waste your first GCD of berserk if the pot isn't already up.

Atramedes - Doing pretty well here. Looks like rip was still ticking for a good amount every air phase. A few times you didn't have rake refreshed before he took off though. When he starts walking to the middle of the room to take off you have a few seconds to do your last second refreshes so try and get rake off if you can. Same advice with your second Pot and Berserk. Make sure you use the Pot first.

Chimaron - There are a few times (looks like during fued) that both rake and rip just dropped off. It may be hard to refresh but you should still be able to keep them going. When you know fued is coming try and refresh both before the slime starts hitting you. Same Pot/Berserk advise.

In general you are doing very well for yourself. Just a little fine tuning will help. Good Luck in Firelands!

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Triplebuses » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:25 am

Thank you very much Tinderhoof ;)

Going to re-gem right away and I will pay more attention to my rip / rake uptime !

Tri.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby shinryu » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:48 am

Just a general sort of question, what's the opinion on Swipe on H Magmaw? I've just been nailing them down with single target since Swipe eats a chunk of Energy and I've been saving Berserk for the head phases obviously, so just wondering what others' opinions are on this matter. Usually there are never more than 3 adds out at a given time, so them plus Magmaw (since they're tanked close to him) gives about 4 targets, so yeah...not entirely sure.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:33 pm

If they are tanked close to Magmaw himself just 2 adds could provide a little boost if you never had to move. I would recomend that you do not do this though. In general if all the melee are cleaving it is possible for more then 1 adds Armageddon to be triggered very close to one another which will wipe the raid.

I always will try to suggest ways you can boost your overall performance. However I will not make suggestions that are counterproductive to the overall success of the encounter even if it might give you higher dps.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby shinryu » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:22 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:If they are tanked close to Magmaw himself just 2 adds could provide a little boost if you never had to move. I would recomend that you do not do this though. In general if all the melee are cleaving it is possible for more then 1 adds Armageddon to be triggered very close to one another which will wipe the raid.

I always will try to suggest ways you can boost your overall performance. However I will not make suggestions that are counterproductive to the overall success of the encounter even if it might give you higher dps.

Mmm good point, forgot about Armageddon. But yeah, what you described is pretty much what I do, I just turn about-face from magmaw to hit an add(s) pretty much. I wonder if in my case it couldn't hurt to try, I am the only melee (well there's a frost dk also but he's on parasites 9/10 times), and the tank is about the only other one hitting them both, and there's no way my swipe alone should be able to push one...then again as 4.2 will drop tomorrow, kind of a moot point to think about in ways.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:57 pm

And of course I was thinking in the 25 man context with more then just use as melee. From a 10man point of view if you are the only melee it might increase your dps doing swipe on 2 adds and Magmaw. As I am sure your raid is targeting one to die at at time. If you get your bleeds up on that target and you have 3 targets throwing a swipe out will likely boost you up a bit.

I don't think that replacing your rotation with swipe will do very good due to adds dying faster then they are replaced, and the tank having to move away from Magmaw either due to the ground aoe (forgot the name) or to pick up a new add. If any of the above happen you will be energy starved and doing way less then if you had at least some bleeds ticking.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby shinryu » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:46 pm

lol yeah should've mentioned it was 10man, I forget how many people here still do 25s lol.

Mkay, so it couldn't hurt to interweave a Swipe on occasion once bleeds are up, sounds good enough. I was sorta thinking pure Swipe spam would be wrong because it would leave you energy starved forever.

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