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Baleroc

Postby Alaron » Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:30 pm

This topic is for discussing Feral DPS tactics and/or general raid strategies for the Baleroc encounter.

When discussing, please mention raid size (10/25) and difficulty (normal/heroic).

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Re: Baleroc

Postby Satrion » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:38 am

I'm probably going to be doing this guy tomorrow and I am looking for some clarification on the Tormented debuff. Multiple strats say this can be transferred to another player if you get too close, but I have watched a bunch of videos of it and no one seems to worry about stacking after they get it. Can anyone who has done this fight tell me if it really transfers? Is the radius just really small? Thanks.

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Re: Baleroc

Postby Stenhaldi » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:42 am

It is only on heroic that Tormented can be passed between players. The radius is extremely small even then -- of order 1 yard, smaller even than the radius to break Countdown (also heroic-only).
Last edited by Stenhaldi on Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Baleroc

Postby Satrion » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:44 am

Stenhaldi wrote:It is only on heroic that Tormented can be passed between players. The radius is extremely small even then -- of order 1 yard, smaller even then the radius to break Countdown.

Perfect. Thanks.

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Re: Baleroc

Postby Kallapryy » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:42 am

We split our soakers into 2 sets (range / Melee) of 3 teams for our 25 man kill. We then utilized a strat similiar to Festergut leg stacking where we moved from leg to leg once he cast a new crystal and creating as much space as possible between the crystal and soakers. If someone was not able to take a debuff I would step in and take around 14/15 stacks (swapped to bear) to allow more time for debuff timers to reset.

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Re: Baleroc

Postby shinryu » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:59 am

Ok, so for 10man, for whatever odd reason I have trouble surviving the stacks from the shard; to give a brief overview, we have myself and a DK on one shard, then a warrior and spriest on the other, then back and forth like so. We wait till 15 stacks come on, then move out for the next guy. But yeah...I suggested it might be my HP (very oddly I'm the lowest of the 3, like 2-3k lower than the rest since they picked up an upgrade somewhere in firelands or 365s or whatever), but like they said, that can't be the whole thing...if I pop Barkskin that doesn't do crap and I die anyways, but Survival Instincts works fine in living (except for the 3min CD)...so yeah, anyone have some recommendations on what to do? Kinda annoying me honestly...

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Re: Baleroc

Postby Floofles » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:13 am

I'd just like to point out how useless feral DPS is without DI.

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Re: Baleroc

Postby Konungr » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:24 am

Floofles wrote:I'd just like to point out how useless feral DPS is without DI.


lolwut?

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Re: Baleroc

Postby Floofles » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:39 am

Yes

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Re: Baleroc

Postby Konungr » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:48 am

How do you figure? I mean its a nice buff, but its not required by any means.

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Re: Baleroc

Postby Dysheki » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:55 am

Floofles wrote:I'd just like to point out how useless feral DPS is without DI.


Welcome to my world where we typically have 2-3 shadow priests, so lol at me getting DI.

As for Shinryu . . . not sure what to tell you. A couple thousand health is not going to make a noticable difference to the raid. I would probably not barkskin right away since the debuff hits harder the longer it's on - wait a good 5 seconds to get the damage reduction on the stuff that hits hard. Outside of that I'm not sure there is anything else you can do. You shouldn't require a 50% damage reduction cooldown to survive (not to mention you have +20% healing done to you - unless you don't have it . . . . may God have mercy on your soul if you don't).
Image

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Re: Baleroc

Postby Konungr » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:58 am

may God have mercy on your soul if you don't).


No.
May Cenarius have Mercy on your Soul.

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Re: Baleroc

Postby Floofles » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:03 am

Konungr wrote:How do you figure? I mean its a nice buff, but its not required by any means.


Scraping the bottom of the barrel along with enhancements on a fight which requires 30.2k dps over 20 players (including tanks)?

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Re: Baleroc

Postby Floofles » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:24 am

Image

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Re: Baleroc

Postby Fonia » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:35 am

Well I guess we're fucked then, cause I've been top 3 along with an enhance and an ass rogue so far in firelands. Is that number including the dps buff u get in heroic? I don't have any heroic experience yet this tier.

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Re: Baleroc

Postby Floofles » Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:08 pm

There is no dps buff in heroic, or normal.

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Re: Baleroc

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:19 pm

shinryu wrote:Ok, so for 10man, for whatever odd reason I have trouble surviving the stacks from the shard; to give a brief overview, we have myself and a DK on one shard, then a warrior and spriest on the other, then back and forth like so. We wait till 15 stacks come on, then move out for the next guy. But yeah...I suggested it might be my HP (very oddly I'm the lowest of the 3, like 2-3k lower than the rest since they picked up an upgrade somewhere in firelands or 365s or whatever), but like they said, that can't be the whole thing...if I pop Barkskin that doesn't do crap and I die anyways, but Survival Instincts works fine in living (except for the 3min CD)...so yeah, anyone have some recommendations on what to do? Kinda annoying me honestly...

What kind of DK is he, unholy or frost? If he is Unholy AMZ works really well for soaking.

The T11 4p bonus here is pretty bad ass. What I do is on my first shard I hit SI at 6 stacks and then hit Barkskin at 12 stacks. Because 4p makes SI 18 seconds I have 50-70% reduction for almost the whole debuff duration and can take all the way to 20 stacks with out sweating. Remember the higher stack you can take the bigger the healer stack gets when they heal you. If you can make it all the way to 17-18 stacks your DK partner won't even need to use a cooldown. For the second shard I do Barkskin at 5 stacks and trade at 10-12 stacks (even less if he can take it) and he can use his big cooldown to take most of the stack. Repeat.

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Re: Baleroc

Postby Konungr » Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:04 pm

For this, we have a 4 man rotation. The Warrior and DK take the first Crystal, then the Warlock and I take the second. I am first up for the first crystal, so if I have Barkskin available I will use it at 10-11 stacks and hold until I have 14-15, If I don't have Barkskin available I stop taking stacks at 12 and the Warlock takes over.

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Re: Baleroc

Postby Dysheki » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:36 pm

Floofles wrote:Image


Thankfully your initial posts of needing over 30k dps from 20 members were not really true.

However doing 16% less dps (31,311 to 26,253) than the fire mage in your parse is relatively depressing.
Image

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Re: Baleroc

Postby shinryu » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:56 pm

Dysheki wrote:
Floofles wrote:I'd just like to point out how useless feral DPS is without DI.


Welcome to my world where we typically have 2-3 shadow priests, so lol at me getting DI.

As for Shinryu . . . not sure what to tell you. A couple thousand health is not going to make a noticable difference to the raid. I would probably not barkskin right away since the debuff hits harder the longer it's on - wait a good 5 seconds to get the damage reduction on the stuff that hits hard. Outside of that I'm not sure there is anything else you can do. You shouldn't require a 50% damage reduction cooldown to survive (not to mention you have +20% healing done to you - unless you don't have it . . . . may God have mercy on your soul if you don't).

Yeah I do have the talents, but if that has ever had an appreciable effect, I've not noticed it. I also try using my Barkskin generally after a few stacks, as I mean it has a 12 second duration and provides the same 20% damage reduction throughout the duration, so as long as it's used 3-4 seconds in it'll last the duration of 15 seconds.

Tinderhoof wrote:
shinryu wrote:Ok, so for 10man, for whatever odd reason I have trouble surviving the stacks from the shard; to give a brief overview, we have myself and a DK on one shard, then a warrior and spriest on the other, then back and forth like so. We wait till 15 stacks come on, then move out for the next guy. But yeah...I suggested it might be my HP (very oddly I'm the lowest of the 3, like 2-3k lower than the rest since they picked up an upgrade somewhere in firelands or 365s or whatever), but like they said, that can't be the whole thing...if I pop Barkskin that doesn't do crap and I die anyways, but Survival Instincts works fine in living (except for the 3min CD)...so yeah, anyone have some recommendations on what to do? Kinda annoying me honestly...

What kind of DK is he, unholy or frost? If he is Unholy AMZ works really well for soaking.

The T11 4p bonus here is pretty bad ass. What I do is on my first shard I hit SI at 6 stacks and then hit Barkskin at 12 stacks. Because 4p makes SI 18 seconds I have 50-70% reduction for almost the whole debuff duration and can take all the way to 20 stacks with out sweating. Remember the higher stack you can take the bigger the healer stack gets when they heal you. If you can make it all the way to 17-18 stacks your DK partner won't even need to use a cooldown. For the second shard I do Barkskin at 5 stacks and trade at 10-12 stacks (even less if he can take it) and he can use his big cooldown to take most of the stack. Repeat.

/facepalm

Well that would also explain why SI has been working so well for me lol...why must it be on a 3min CD though...

DK buddy is also Frost btw, so no help there. Though, does Unholy even take AMZ? I remember back in wotlk it was a joke as no one ever took it, not sure what they do now since I abandoned my DK after Blood DPS ceased to exist...

I dunno, maybe it's the healers that's the problem, though I still find it hard to believe they can keep the other 3 up with relative success, but not me. Thinking back, if it's the holy pally was the one who started on me, he can generally keep me up, but the resto druid and shammy can't...yeah I dunno really as they're all really good healers.

Maybe it's worth shifting into bear form for those 15 seconds? That would give more HP at least...that or I was gonna drop UW for a Stam trinket I (rarely) use for tanking, give it a bit more of a HP buffer since it's a stacking 4k damage debuff right?

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Re: Baleroc

Postby shinryu » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:50 am

Well I figured out how to live...that or the healers healed me more. Whichever XD

But now I have more questions semi-directed at the healing and how it works...

For 10man, our tank keeps dying during I believe Inferno; I suspect our healers aren't getting enough stacks in somewhere, as they're obviously not healing enough to keep him up at all as the fight progresses. We have a Holy Pally, Resto Druid, and Resto shammy for the bulk of our tries, and we've tried just about every combo regarding the crystals; having 1 healer per crystal, rotating healers so that one heals the first guy on the crystal, one on the next, crystal despawns and then 3rd healer on 3rd guy, 1st healer on 4th guy, and so on per crystal spawn. Originally we were doing 15 seconds, but then someone read the crystal only lasts like 24 seconds or whatever, so we moved to 12 stacks per dps before moving.

Now in all of this, my concern is that the healers aren't getting enough stacks in somewhere; does anyone have any recommendations on how we should be doing this? Honestly we have it down to where none of us dies from the crystal/tormented, but the tank eventually dies off around 70-60% or so because he just doesn't seem to be getting healed enough. I mean, there's talk of us trying 4 heals, 5 dps, and a tank next week, with either 2 heals healing per crystal or rotating so each heal has a player, and that just doesn't sound right at all, with my concerns being enrage issues and such. So yeah...any ideals on how to fix this before we try something else?

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Re: Baleroc

Postby Shandrahyl » Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:33 am

in 10m we was trying with 2 x 2 players for debuff....1st phase 2ppl stack to like 11-12 , next phase the other 2 did the same....that doesnt really work very fine cuz once u reach 11 stacks u get like 70k dmg / tick...wasnt really safe thou. so we just went to 3 players / phase. so every1 takes like 4-5 stacks..everything cool. (btw it was 3 dds in 1 phase und 2 dds& the non-blade-tank...hes not about to get any shadowdamage)

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Re: Baleroc

Postby shinryu » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:04 am

Well, we just did Baleroc in 10man with 4 healers...hit the enrage, about 2 seconds into it only though, so was all good. So yeah...if your raid can do 19-22k dps per person and you have healing problems, give it a shot (especially if you're feral and can do over 1mil more damage than 3 of the others lol).

That being said though, we really need to find a way to do it with 3 now, as an extra dps would probably mean we'd kill this guy with a good minute or 2 left lol. But I digress, 4/7, now to solve Alysrazor somehow...then pray Staghelm plays nice with his staff.

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Re: Baleroc

Postby Aurea » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:37 am

does any of my fellow kitties out here have experience with single soaking crystals on heroic?
when to use which cd, use of external cds, TB trinket?
and on a related matter... barkskin and SI do stack multiplicatively, dont they?

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Re: Baleroc

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:32 pm

Aurea wrote:does any of my fellow kitties out here have experience with single soaking crystals on heroic?
when to use which cd, use of external cds, TB trinket?
and on a related matter... barkskin and SI do stack multiplicatively, dont they?

If they did it would be amazing...but I am pretty sure they are only additive.
Ferals have a great amount of tools for pulling off the full stack (but only every 3 shards).

Lets look at your cooldowns:
SI - 12 seconds (18 if you have T11 4p).
Barkskin - 12 seconds.
Mirror? - 10 seconds.
Bear Form/Frenzied Regeneration (glyphed)- Awesome all the time (20 seconds)!

Pretty much stacking everything at once if your best bet unless you have an external cooldown like Pain Suppression. The Shard lasts 25 seconds and gives 1 stack a second. Have your debuff indicator in easy view and have it set to show stacks. If dps isn't going to be a major concern go bear at 6 stacks and hit FR (if glyphed you get 30% more healing for 20 seconds and a larger health pool. If you healers can keep you up till you get 13 stacks you are golden. Just pop SI and Barkskin together (SI at 7 stacks if you have 4p) and wait 2 ticks to pop mirror. That gives you 70% damage reduction 30% more healing taken and ~45% shadow resistance.

If your healers have issues keeping you up before 13 stacks have an external used on you like Hand Sacrafice or Pain suppression. Don't save those till last cause nothing is going to beat the 70% reduction you can give yourself.

Hope that helps.

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