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Alysrazor

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Re: Alysrazor

Postby mekell » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:47 pm

Our resto druid is always giving his innervates away, he never needs them. I haven't strugged with mana when i respec to fill in as a healer on occasion when we need it either (any my healer gear is far from great). I would bet hes wasting some heals somehow or his spirit is horrible.
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Re: Alysrazor

Postby Konungr » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:52 pm

mekell wrote:Our resto druid is always giving his innervates away, he never needs them. I haven't strugged with mana when i respec to fill in as a healer on occasion when we need it either (any my healer gear is far from great). I would bet hes wasting some heals somehow or his spirit is horrible.



I'm confused, but what exactly does this have to do with Alysrazor or which part of this thread did I miss?

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Re: Alysrazor

Postby mekell » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:54 pm

responding to Shin's comment which was in response to the previous posters comment. Not exactly about this fight in specific.
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Re: Alysrazor

Postby shinryu » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:00 pm

Bleh, forgot to mention it was the resto shammy, not druid with mana problems, which is why he can't spare much mana for an interrupt. Sorry for that bit of confusion.

Edit, did more tries tonight, after 3 hours of wiping I think we have the general gist down to make some serious attempts later this week. Few things concern me though...first (and again, this is for 10man), the damage we seem to be doing on Alysrazor seems to be pretty poor in my view; the Spriest we send up is what, not even getting in 10% or other insane numbers while flying up there, and by the end up 2 phases (our best try since our dumb mage went and d/ced somewhere and died), she was barely down to around 65-55% (don't remember which exactly). I think we must be missing something, but I honestly dunno what...that and people need to learn to live through tornadoes, seriously (though sadly that's left to individual player skill).

That or is it common to see kills going into her "enrage" period where after 3 cycles she'll just stay in P4 permanently? Still a new fight for all of us, but yeah, still trying to figure out what else we can be doing better...

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Re: Alysrazor

Postby Fonia » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:44 am

Are you having tanks interrupt the adds during the burn phase? If not the burn phase will end ather quickly. Is you spriest that you send up getting 25 stacks of the buff for flying thru rings? Are you killing adds fast enough to maybe send another dps flying? Tell your whammy to get better? During the burn phase mana will get restored so he doesn't have to be very conservative since only tanks should be taking any damage. FYI if he helps on interrupts raid damage will be lower and he will have to do less healing.

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Re: Alysrazor

Postby shinryu » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:32 pm

Both tanks should be interrupting the adds, though I'm wondering, how long should the burn phase be lasting optimally if all the interrupts are going off? Should we have our 2 healers with interrupts also on them if it's a case of not being able to get them all or something? I "think" our Spriest is getting the stacks, though I'm not honestly sure, he's usually a good player so I'm half-assuming he is, though I'll try to target him and check. I think we are killing the adds fast enough normally, but the problem is, there's only 2 of us with interrupts that are solid (myself and dk), plus a hunter and mage helping to kill them; don't want to send the mage up to fly again because (frankly) he sucks at the flying, and I'm not sure how good sending a hunter up would be, as I know alone it'd probably take me 4-5 of the add cast to kill them, by which time the other would probably be up. Not to mention that's then less damage on the big add, they're just barely going down in time for the tornado phase while being shot by the 2 ranged on the ground.

I mean I'm sure we'll figure it out, but I'm wondering what other people are getting her down to and at in phases and such to compare.

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Re: Alysrazor

Postby Konungr » Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:49 am

This was a reply to the Ovale thread, but it is talking about this fight so I will post here too.

From someone that does Air Phase Kitty strictly (45.3k on this weeks attempt - puts me at 3rd ranking for World of Logs Actual rankings {If you take out the Bear-Imprint and < 1 Min parses} and if my guild would starting running logs) the buff will instantly restore energy when you go through it, not sure how much, don't pay that close attention, and give you a stacking Haste buff. During the Burnout Phase, you will be FBing, A lot.

Generally as soon as I hit the air, I berserk, so that it will be up for the air-phase and i start to fly around and grab rings, keeping up my normal rotation and following the Ovale Script. Each time you pass through one it gives you instant energy (probably like 20-40 if I had to guess) and stacks another Haste buff. When you hit 24 stacks, you gain the 75% Crit buff and you can grab a 25th stack of the Haste buff, continuing to run through the rings will refresh the 2 40 sec buffs, so it is imperative that you run through a ring during Tornados right before she crashes.

As soon as she is down, I Feral Charge and Berserk/Potion/Etc. At this point you have 150% Haste and 115% Crit, which means you are energy capped for the entire burnout phase with guaranteed Crits. Once I get T12 4PC, I have a strong feeling that I am going to have Berserk that lasts for longer than a minute, given that there is no limit on the number of times it will extend Berserk.

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Re: Alysrazor

Postby Stenhaldi » Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:14 am

The GCD will limit berserk duration to about 49 seconds, but berserk won't have much effect anyway when you have almost unlimited energy already.

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Re: Alysrazor

Postby Konungr » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:11 am

Stenhaldi wrote:The GCD will limit berserk duration to about 49 seconds, but berserk won't have much effect anyway when you have almost unlimited energy already.


Disregard, I see about the 49 seconds now, which is pretty crappy. Either way, with the Alysrazor buffs, you will be able to maximize on the 4 pc's potential.

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Re: Alysrazor

Postby Leafkiller » Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:07 pm

Cross posting this as it pertains to execution ability use and not just what I am putting into my Ovale script:
====================

Ok - now that I understand the mechanics, I know what I need to do with the code. First some hard data. 128 haste rating is about 1% haste. Your energy regen rate = (1+haste/100) * 10. I took one of the experimental 378 profiles that Konungr built (Haste-Hit Exp - Crit) as an example of very high haste. The profile has 1834 haste rating or about 14.3 haste. So the energy regen for this profile is 11.4 energy per second. If he had a stack of 25, that is a 200% increase to haste - so his haste would be about 43, and that would make energy regen about 14.3 per second, which is not going to greatly impact TF as you will be able to get energy below 35.

Here is the tooltip for Blazing Power:
Imbued with a fraction of Alysrazor's blazing power! Increases haste by 8% for 40 sec. Also restores mana, rage, energy, and runic power instantly.


It looks like it will restore all of your energy every time you pass through a ring, and will add the 8% haste buff on top of that. So while you are in the air, and hitting rings continually, your energy is pretty close to unlimited. It is probably not a good idea to cast Berserk while in the air as halving the cost of abilities is not meaningful if you never run out of energy. You do, however, want to cast TF on cooldown to get the 6 second damage increase. I can check for this in the code pretty simply - by looking at the remaining duration of the Blazing Power debuff, and if is >= 35 seconds, recommending TF regardless of energy level. I will not recommend Berserk at this point even if it is off of cooldown and checked on.

Once you are in the ground phase, assuming you find a ring to run through during the tornado, you will be left with maybe 30 seconds of improved haste and the massive crit bonus. This is a good time to hit Berserk as you are not hitting rings anymore and per the math above, the energy regen rate is no where near close to what Berserk does for you.

Now onto the subject of FB. It turns out that doing aggressive FBs during Berserk is a *small* dps gain without the 4 piece set bonus - very small. So outside of Berserk, even with a 25 stack of the debuff, you will not notice a significant dps change between lots of FBs vs. lots of Shreds. Once you are on the ground, with Berserk the aggressive FB code will be enabled anyways.

TLDR: I am going to remove conditionals from the FB code that look for the Blazing Power debuff. I am going to change the conditional on TF to recommend it if it is off of cooldown and the Blazing Power Debuff as at least 35 seconds left (i.e. you passed through a ring in the last 5 seconds). I recommend saving Berserk for the ground phase. I will post a new script later today. Right now I have some errands to run.

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Re: Alysrazor

Postby Stenhaldi » Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:41 am

Leafkiller wrote:Now onto the subject of FB. It turns out that doing aggressive FBs during Berserk is a *small* dps gain without the 4 piece set bonus - very small. So outside of Berserk, even with a 25 stack of the debuff, you will not notice a significant dps change between lots of FBs vs. lots of Shreds.

That's not really a reasonable deduction. The reason ferocious bite is only a small gain over shred during berserk is that berserk only reduces the base cost of ferocious bite, not the additional energy consumed. In the context of a haste or energy regeneration buff it would be a substantially larger gain.

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Re: Alysrazor

Postby Konungr » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:26 am

Stenhaldi wrote:
Leafkiller wrote:Now onto the subject of FB. It turns out that doing aggressive FBs during Berserk is a *small* dps gain without the 4 piece set bonus - very small. So outside of Berserk, even with a 25 stack of the debuff, you will not notice a significant dps change between lots of FBs vs. lots of Shreds.

That's not really a reasonable deduction. The reason ferocious bite is only a small gain over shred during berserk is that berserk only reduces the base cost of ferocious bite, not the additional energy consumed. In the context of a haste or energy regeneration buff it would be a substantially larger gain.



Yes, this. Without Berserk, Shred is less DPS/E than FB when used with 50 Energy. With Berserk, that comparison is much closer, since FB will cost 75% of its cost, where Shred gets a 50% reduction in cost.

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Re: Alysrazor

Postby Leafkiller » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:43 am

Stenhaldi wrote:That's not really a reasonable deduction. The reason ferocious bite is only a small gain over shred during berserk is that berserk only reduces the base cost of ferocious bite, not the additional energy consumed. In the context of a haste or energy regeneration buff it would be a substantially larger gain.


That is a fair comment. In the absence of being able to sim the fight mechanics, I am assuming we can use the same aggressive FB rules we have for Berserk, a 5 second window on Rip and a 3 second window on SR. For the purposes of my Ovale script, I will use the same logic I did for TF to decide when to make this recommendation, base it on the remaining duration of the debuff since that is my clue that energy has gone back up. I will add that into my script and look for some feedback.

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Re: Alysrazor

Postby Konungr » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:34 am

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Re: Alysrazor

Postby shinryu » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:04 am

^ I hate you.

/still waiting on staff to drop...

Also, what addon gives you that rather attractive header you have on your screen?

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Re: Alysrazor

Postby Konungr » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:11 am

shinryu wrote:^ I hate you.

/still waiting on staff to drop...

Also, what addon gives you that rather attractive header you have on your screen?


The artwork is all an addon called LUI, which is a compilation, but I have stripped alot of the default options and use the addons I like better.

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Re: Alysrazor

Postby Alaron » Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:50 am

CLEARLY a 'shop, because [wall of incomprehensible muttering, complete with references to the Illuminiati, Trilateral Convention, and Ron Paul].

Heh. Good stuff, Ko.

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Re: Alysrazor

Postby Eldhorn » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:57 pm

As soon as she is down, I Feral Charge and Berserk/Potion/Etc. At this point you have 150% Haste and 115% Crit, which means you are energy capped for the entire burnout phase with guaranteed Crits.


The ground phase consists of roughly 30 seconds of +50% damage and 30 seconds of regular dps, where she is beating the tar out of your tanks and lastly the 5 seconds it takes for her to move to the edge of the crater and fly up.
I found that even without Berserk I couldn't reach the bottom of my energypool when I had all that Haste, so what I did was that I tried to take a ring to refresh my duration as close to when the tornadoes ended as possible, and then I Fcharged -> used TF (for dmg, not energy) -> Went Nuts™. After roughly 1/3 (20 seconds) of the duration of the burn phase your buff will drop off, and you'll start spending energy again, 10 seconds after that you'll get your next TF and this time you can use Berserk too, so your high damage will cover all of the ground phase, save for those 10 seconds in the middle.
What's gained by popping Berserk late is 35 seconds of flat out dummy dps with all cds, what's lost is those last ~10 seconds of the Burnout, where you could have squeezed in another 3 Shreds and a FB.

Too bad I only got to fly and stack up to 25 once every attempt, and not twice like our mage :I
Was a real fun event, and despite the terrible depth perception I found myself enjoying that bit so much that I almost wished the ground people would fail and wipe :roll:

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Re: Alysrazor

Postby Toro » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:36 pm

I know I posted this in the video section, but I'll post it here as well:
My first attempt flying 25M -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGeXV-rm3sc

This should show a feral in the air for this fight; please note that I fall once about 3 minutes in (I think it was 3 minutes, that or 4 minutes) due to, as a mage who does this regularly stated, I missed too many rings in a row, and though I had both the 3 wings lit up for being able to fly, and the ring debuff on me, I'm goign to believe him, but be a bit skeptical, so if someone can explain that, it'd be amazing.

I had decently bad uptimes on the boss due to being uncomfortable at first, but I picked it up a little... didn't keep Bers on CD which hindered me a lot, considering all of the haste I had.

Hopefully it can give people a good idea of what to expect. I have yet to upload any of my ground phase vids for this on account of them being dreadfully boring. Interrupting adds and dotting up some big birds... aside from that, it's lots of running from place to place.
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Re: Alysrazor

Postby Leafkiller » Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:28 pm

Toro wrote:This should show a feral in the air for this fight; please note that I fall once about 3 minutes in (I think it was 3 minutes, that or 4 minutes) due to, as a mage who does this regularly stated, I missed too many rings in a row, and though I had both the 3 wings lit up for being able to fly, and the ring debuff on me, I'm goign to believe him, but be a bit skeptical, so if someone can explain that, it'd be amazing.


Wings of Flame is the buff that lets you fly. You get it after taking three feathers. It lasts for 20 seconds per Wowhead: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=98619

When you fly through a ring, it refreshes your Wings of Flame and also increases/refreshes your Blazing Power debuff (odd that this is a debuff). Blazing Power lasts 40 seconds.

If you fell, you did not hit a ring for 20+ seconds. Your Blazing Power would still have 20 seconds left on it, and you can get back into the air by grabbing another feather and even keep your Blazing Power debuff up if you get back up and then hit another ring fast enough.

Edit: You missed all three rings on one of his ground strafing runs right before you fell. You are also doing more work than you need to between rings. If you watch your vid, you will see that the rings appear three times in a row in the same location relative to Alysrazor, and then switch to a new location. You don't need to swap back to the center of him after each ring, just after every third ring. Also, for the rings on the outside, you pretty much need to keep flying at full speed to hit them all while the ones on the inside allow you time to stop between (outside is to your left looking at Alysrazor).

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Re: Alysrazor

Postby mekell » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:06 pm

My experience on this is just as Leaf explained it (we just downed Alys last week). There will be a ring that appears right before Alys drops down and flies through the middle. At this point, he will spawn 3 rings while cleaving through the middle, and they will always be in the same spot relative to the bombs that are by them. In my experience this is 1 of 3 configurations:

X = bomb
O = Ring

1) O X X
2) X O X
3) X X O

Once you see the first set of rings during this segment of the fight, the other 2 setups will be exactly the same before alys flies back up into the air.
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Re: Alysrazor

Postby Ammiel » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:00 pm

Is it possible to anticipate where the rings will be during the tornado phase?

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Re: Alysrazor

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:19 pm

Ammiel wrote:Is it possible to anticipate where the rings will be during the tornado phase?

They are static and if you see one spawn it will spawn again in the same place during the tornados. If you are doing the run in a circle strat you can position yourself over the spawn point and hit it 1-2 more times before she crashes to the ground.

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Re: Alysrazor

Postby adianar » Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:45 pm

Getting ready to start heroic 10.. 2 boomies go up, so I'm down with interrupt duty. I haven't clearly seen many posts stating heroic mode and any particulars related to it. We have a hunter blowing up the boulder/fire bomb thing rolling around on the ground. Anything I should be looking out for particularly on this fight?

4/7 heroic, but we're the only grp to not have killed heroic alys of the top guilds. We opted to Baleroc 3rd and skipped ALys. This also appears to be highly unusual. Only a few guilds, 3, further along than 4/7 heroic on server.

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Re: Alysrazor

Postby Konungr » Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:52 pm

When Alysrazor would normally make her cut through the center of the arena dropping extra feathers, she now casts Firestorm, so you must LoS her with the boulders that your hunter will kill.

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