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Majordomo Staghelm

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby shinryu » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:04 am

Konungr wrote:
shinryu wrote:Ok for 10man, what's everyone letting his stacks build up to before forcing a form shift? We've done tries with both 3 and 4 heals (about the same either way), and we've been doing 10-12/5/5 for Scorpion and 5/5/5 for Cat form...any recommendations? I thought it was supposed to be more gradual in decline (like say 10/8/6 or something for Scorpion), but yeah...kinda lost, think we all were really since L2R didn't have a 10man vid up, so kinda hard figuring out what the proper amounts were for 10 instead of 25.


We do 7(S) - 5(C) - 5(S) - 5(C) - 4(S) - 4(C)

Oh wow...really? And this is on reg right? Geez...I mean it just doesn't seem like we get enough DPS in there, but I guess that's worth a try, as we usually wipe on the 3rd cat phase and can't go any further (with him still hovering around like 20% I think). I dunno as long as we can push him longer in the initial scorpion, it's usually better I'd think right? Guess I'll try recommending 8 or so...either way interesting. What's the average DPS like, we have around 16k-22k usually, with most in the 17-19k range I think.

What about Hero? We generally use it around the 2nd or 3rd cat phase I believe, usually taking him from 50% to like mid 30s I'd want to say, but yeah...

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Mihir » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:02 am

In our alt 10man run, we did 11-7-4-7-6-2-kill. The 11 is a bit risky since there's only a few seconds between the cleaves at that point. Bloodlust was used after the 3rd or 4th cleave.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Konungr » Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:19 am

Mihir wrote:In our alt 10man run, we did 11-7-4-7-6-2-kill. The 11 is a bit risky since there's only a few seconds between the cleaves at that point. Bloodlust was used after the 3rd or 4th cleave.


Aha, see we save HeroLust for the Seeded Scorpion phase.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Ekthelion » Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:59 am

25: We do 11 - 6 - 5 - 6 (still on normal :-()
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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby shinryu » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:14 am

Well, we finally got Staghelm on 10man, finally got lucky after 10 tries with the damn flame orb thing he does on the 6th shift. No fire cat staff :(

However, I guess The Hungerer is a nice compensatory prize for now, pairing it and H Cyclone over H Cyclone and UW for now. Yay.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby taio » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:13 am

we are doing this fight straight forward on normal mode
(11S-7C-7S-7C-6-9S)

we´ve never ever hit the 3rd Cat phase ever and had no troubles with the fire orbs!

and even on our alt run we go with the 11S first going HeroLust at 4 stacks and tranq at 8.

healer setup usually holypriest holypally restodruid and they switch healing the cleaves so 2 can rest while one is doing the aoe heal!

in the 3rd scorpion phase we actuallyy push him do death even if the stacks exceed 7 or 8!

we actually do this one with a fully agi gemmed/enchanted feral tank who is also doing around 19k dps on the fight so it feels like we´re going through butter when fighting fandral!

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Terias » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:39 am

10 man
8s, 6c, 6s, 6c, 4s, 0-4c

Dies before fire orbs usually.

We found pushing for more scorpions just drains healer mana and doesn't buy much time (5-10 seconds). Going for more cats is even worse, takes more dps than you gain pushing past 6 I think, and gets very dangerous running back in. We also comfortably 2 heal the fight with this setup, which gets us an extra dps.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby shinryu » Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:03 pm

Terias wrote:10 man
8s, 6c, 6s, 6c, 4s, 0-4c

Dies before fire orbs usually.

We found pushing for more scorpions just drains healer mana and doesn't buy much time (5-10 seconds). Going for more cats is even worse, takes more dps than you gain pushing past 6 I think, and gets very dangerous running back in. We also comfortably 2 heal the fight with this setup, which gets us an extra dps.

Geez, what 2 healers are you using and what's their gearing like? We barely make it through the later phases with 3 heals, that seems kinda nutty with 2 almost unless you have a lot of raid CDs to help mitigate damage during scorpion somewhere...

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Terias » Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:05 pm

Paladin is recently 85 and still has a few zg/za pieces, shaman did heroics last tier.

Strat might not work for everyone, our pally does twice the healing of the next healer sometimes, he's pretty crazy.

Not many raid cd's, but I know I used tranq in the second scorpion during the seeds. Most of the dps manage their defensive cd's pretty well too.

Was actually an accident that we even tried to 2 heal it, one of our healers had to take off so we brought in another dps and gave it a shot. Seemed smoother than 3 healing it, though I'm sure the healers would disagree. If I remember correctly, we also 2 healed baleroc.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Grenache » Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:55 am

I often seem to pull low numbers on this fight 21-22k and I suspect it is due to lower bleed uptimes on the boss during cat phase. I tend to do a bit of tab targetting and mangle then Rake an add, but then find myself a bit energy starved when the boss briefly returns. Any suggestions? If we have 3 up I try to throw in a swipe, but I feel like there must be a better way. I Shred from the Scopion armpit in case you were wondering, so its not mangle spamming.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Konungr » Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:36 am

Grenache wrote:I often seem to pull low numbers on this fight 21-22k and I suspect it is due to lower bleed uptimes on the boss during cat phase. I tend to do a bit of tab targetting and mangle then Rake an add, but then find myself a bit energy starved when the boss briefly returns. Any suggestions? If we have 3 up I try to throw in a swipe, but I feel like there must be a better way. I Shred from the Scopion armpit in case you were wondering, so its not mangle spamming.


Ferals are literally the Worst DPS class to be switching to adds, for our combat mechanics. Generally I won't even touch them at all, except for a Swipe if the Boss just jumped away and there are 2 sitting there. If we are having trouble I will target one and just let the white damage buffed by Savage Roar tick down.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby shinryu » Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:43 pm

I generally ignore the adds and continue on the boss (10 man, 3 total melee since tank offspec is DPS) until the later stacks when they come out faster. Then I just try keeping up Rake on the boss while saving energy for the other cat spawns.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Ammiel » Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:07 pm

Playing this fight on 10man heroic, I usually just put up FFF on the spawn right away and melee swing it, swipe once if I'd energy cap a second or so before the boss gets back to where I can hit him without reseting my concentration meter.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Dysheki » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:00 pm

Just a heads up for people doing heroic Staghelm: just realized today (after a whole night of attempts) that it looks at your concentration level when you apply the dot and not when the dot ticks. It makes sense it would work this way because of the way TF works, but I never even thought about that the entire night.

Just a quick look at the logs I found:

[23:44:57.039] Dysheki Rip Majordomo Staghelm 20164
[23:44:59.069] Dysheki Rip Majordomo Staghelm *41539*
[23:45:00.503] Dysheki's Legendary Concentration fades from Dysheki
[23:45:01.069] Dysheki Rip Majordomo Staghelm 20165
[23:45:03.061] Dysheki Rip Majordomo Staghelm 20165
[23:45:05.062] Dysheki Rip Majordomo Staghelm 20164
[23:45:07.003] Dysheki Rip Majordomo Staghelm *41540*
[23:45:08.792] Dysheki casts Rip on Majordomo Staghelm
[23:45:08.964] Dysheki's Rip fades from Majordomo Staghelm
[23:45:08.995] Dysheki Rip Majordomo Staghelm 20165
[23:45:09.036] Majordomo Staghelm afflicted by Rip from Dysheki
[23:45:11.066] Dysheki Rip Majordomo Staghelm 6744

Legendary Concentration being the 100% damage buff you get when you are at full concentration and you lose it when you take damage.
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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Wicks » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:53 pm

I would really appreciate if someone could help me with this issue:

We just started Staghelm 25[N], and as a raid leader I am having difficulties reading the combat logs regarding the Seeds explosions.

In the first place, during the raid itself, I cannot see whether we wiped on Scorpion because the Scythe killed someone which then produced a mass chain reaction of Seeds exploding, or whether someone did not run out and their Seed exploded in the raid. This translates into the logs as well - I cannot find a way to see the events clearly, so that I have no doubts that all the people are indeed running out on time.

Would be great if someone could give me any tips on how to handle this, because its one thing how I handle Scythe damage and another if someone or someones are making constant mistakes. this is the log from first night: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/gtyd ... dashboard/.

thanks :)

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:26 pm

Wicks wrote:I would really appreciate if someone could help me with this issue:

We just started Staghelm 25[N], and as a raid leader I am having difficulties reading the combat logs regarding the Seeds explosions.

In the first place, during the raid itself, I cannot see whether we wiped on Scorpion because the Scythe killed someone which then produced a mass chain reaction of Seeds exploding, or whether someone did not run out and their Seed exploded in the raid. This translates into the logs as well - I cannot find a way to see the events clearly, so that I have no doubts that all the people are indeed running out on time.

Would be great if someone could give me any tips on how to handle this, because its one thing how I handle Scythe damage and another if someone or someones are making constant mistakes. this is the log from first night: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/gtyd ... dashboard/.

thanks :)

Hey Wick. Welcome.

I will do some digging. As you have a lot of attempts do you have any in specific you want me to look at or any specific people?

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Leafkiller » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:30 pm

Scythe deaths absolutely cause seed explosions, which will likely chain as everyone is low right after the Scythe.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Konungr » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:31 pm

Leafkiller wrote:Scythe deaths absolutely cause seed explosions, which will likely chain as everyone is low right after the Scythe.


If you are talking to Wicks, it is my understanding that he knows this. What he is asking, IIAC, is how he can use World of Logs to tell whether a Scythe initiated a kill on a Seed, which then killed everyone, which means it would be a healing problem, or whether it was someone not paying attention and letting seed explode due to its duration, which would be a mechanics/raider-in-general problem. He is trying to figure out where the adjustments and "fixing" needs to take place.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:11 pm

Hey Wicks. I PM'd you a list of the wipes that were caused directly by an intereaction with Flame Scythe and Searing Seeds and who likely caused them. I am not a huge fan of calling people out on the internet with no context so I figured the indepth stuff you be just for you.

General info:
- 8 of the 25 attempts were caused by Flame Scythe/Searing Seeds interaction.
- As the night went on people really improved on the getting out portion. While there were still some accidents folk stopped just standing there.

Good luck this week.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Wicks » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:22 pm

Konungr wrote:
Leafkiller wrote:Scythe deaths absolutely cause seed explosions, which will likely chain as everyone is low right after the Scythe.


If you are talking to Wicks, it is my understanding that he knows this. What he is asking, IIAC, is how he can use World of Logs to tell whether a Scythe initiated a kill on a Seed, which then killed everyone, which means it would be a healing problem, or whether it was someone not paying attention and letting seed explode due to its duration, which would be a mechanics/raider-in-general problem. He is trying to figure out where the adjustments and "fixing" needs to take place.


Yes, that is exactly my main worry now :)

I guess only the longer tries would show that info - but you are totally right Tinderhoof, I will probably have to wait till next raid of tries on him and mark the "potential suspects" tries.

The main thing is that I can see if Seed explosions in the raid happens while his energy is still low enough; problem is making sure the coincidences at 3rd and 4th Scythe, when not all people shed their Seeds still. Especially since I had healers and some dps saying their add-ons were not clear about warning them for explosions (them not being careful and focused cant really be helped), which is what made me wonder whether they were really making mistakes. And in general made me curious :)


Tinderhoof wrote:Hey Wicks. I PM'd you a list of the wipes that were caused directly by an intereaction with Flame Scythe and Searing Seeds and who likely caused them. I am not a huge fan of calling people out on the internet with no context so I figured the indepth stuff you be just for you.



I really greatly appreciate both you guys help :)
And thank you for the welcome :)
Last edited by Wicks on Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Konungr » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:40 pm

The main thing is that I can see if Seed explosions in the raid happens while his energy is still low enough; problem is making sure the coincidences at 3rd and 4th Scythe, when not all people shed their Seeds still. Especially since I had healers and some dps saying their add-ons were not clear about warning them for explosions (them not being careful and focused cant really be helped), which is what made me wonder whether they were really making mistakes. And in general made me curious :)



Noone should need an addon to tell them when to run out for seeds, its a plain and clear debuff that even shows up on the default blizzard frames, as bad as they are. If they don't have the functionality to see a timer for a debuff on their character, they need to change that rather quickly.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:46 pm

Konungr wrote:Noone should need an addon to tell them when to run out for seeds, its a plain and clear debuff that even shows up on the default blizzard frames, as bad as they are. If they don't have the functionality to see a timer for a debuff on their character, they need to change that rather quickly.

Not everyone is amazing at this game. To raid at a high level requires a lot information processing in a very quick amount of time. Personally I can't use the built in buff/debuff frames from blizzard because they take to much time to find the one I need to look at. I use a buff mod called raven to allow me to put bars right near my character.

However not everyone is as educated with add ons, and older versions of DBM and Bigwigs can have timers that are off. People should stive to be better and learn from their mistakes, but you should try and not be so universal in the comment. Not everyone can play for Paragon and Vodka, so we just try to have fun with the folks we play with.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Konungr » Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:12 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:
Konungr wrote:Noone should need an addon to tell them when to run out for seeds, its a plain and clear debuff that even shows up on the default blizzard frames, as bad as they are. If they don't have the functionality to see a timer for a debuff on their character, they need to change that rather quickly.

Not everyone is amazing at this game. To raid at a high level requires a lot information processing in a very quick amount of time. Personally I can't use the built in buff/debuff frames from blizzard because they take to much time to find the one I need to look at. I use a buff mod called raven to allow me to put bars right near my character.

However not everyone is as educated with add ons, and older versions of DBM and Bigwigs can have timers that are off. People should stive to be better and learn from their mistakes, but you should try and not be so universal in the comment. Not everyone can play for Paragon and Vodka, so we just try to have fun with the folks we play with.


Not what I was saying. I use Raven for my Buffs/Debuffs as well, but it doesn't shout at me that it is time to move out or anything, I still have to keep track of the timer of the debuff, like most people. Generally the Blizzard UI is crappy, but the basic functionality that is require, especially for this particular task, is more than present. There is the debuff icon, and it shows the time left, right there, with no need for a addon to tell you that it is time to move out of the way.

My comment, IMHO, was more directed towards those that are not as skill and do not have addons, since that is one mechanic in the fight that you should require no additional help with. Noone can help you, except for a Priest that is feeling extremely charitable, run out with your debuff since they are all on different timers.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Kallapryy » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:46 pm

I'd consider that priest suicidal.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Aurea » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:20 am

using the emphasize option in big wigs makes ist anounce a nice countdown in i soft female voice... what more could you ask for to pay attention to :]

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