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Blood in the Water

Face-rippin fun.
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Blood in the Water

Postby Konungr » Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:44 pm

My and another Feral had a, I wouldn't call it a disagreement, but rather a point of interest that a more knowledgable feral might be able to touch upon.

When you put up Rip on a target at 25% and then use FB, does the "extended?" Rip keep the same stats (Agility, Attack Power, etc) as when it was put up via Rip, or does the 2nd Rip gain the stats at the time of FB.

For instance, whenever I use Rip at 25%, I have become accustomed to using my Ancient Petrified Seed, Potion of the Tol'vir, and Tiger's Fury to ensure that my last 25% Rip has ~9.6k Agility and 15% increased damage behind it. Does that 9.6k Agility continue throughout the duration of the Blood in the Water, or does it lose the excess agility when I FB without those 2 buffs active?

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Re: Blood in the Water

Postby Konungr » Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:50 pm

Here is my ranked Ragnaros parse, where I believe I managed to do this, but I am having trouble looking into the specifics at the time of the 25% duration to check my theory.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2 ... 933&e=5536

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Re: Blood in the Water

Postby Aurea » Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:07 pm

it shouldn't, all extendible dots(swp/corruption/rip) take a new snapshot of your stats when they are extended.

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Re: Blood in the Water

Postby Yawning » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:55 pm

Aurea wrote:it shouldn't, all extendible dots(swp/corruption/rip) take a new snapshot of your stats when they are extended.


This is correct, unless they changed it since I looked at it last (unlikely).
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."

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Re: Blood in the Water

Postby Stenhaldi » Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:28 am

A DoT "extension", as via glyph of shred, keeps the original stats. A DoT "refresh", as via blood in the water, uses a new snapshot. At least this was the case a few months ago when I was figuring out how to optimize buffed rip uptime on heroic Nefarian.

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Re: Blood in the Water

Postby Vorticose » Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:39 am

Code: Select all
[22:13:29.538] Konungr casts Rip on Ragnaros
[22:13:29.986] Ragnaros's Rip is refreshed by Konungr
[22:13:30.303] Konungr Rip Ragnaros *24638*
[22:13:32.333] Konungr Rip Ragnaros 11960
[22:13:33.692] Konungr casts Ferocious Bite on Ragnaros
[22:13:34.132] Konungr Ferocious Bite Ragnaros *12847*
[22:13:34.353] Konungr Rip Ragnaros *21424*
[22:13:36.415] Konungr Rip Ragnaros *21424*
[22:13:38.446] Konungr Rip Ragnaros *21424*
[22:13:40.505] Konungr Rip Ragnaros *13277*
[22:13:42.517] Konungr Rip Ragnaros *21425*
[22:13:43.971] Konungr casts Ferocious Bite on Ragnaros
[22:13:44.300] Konungr Ferocious Bite Ragnaros 7183
[22:13:44.422] Konungr Rip Ragnaros *19078*
[22:13:46.312] Konungr Rip Ragnaros 9261
[22:13:48.539] Konungr Rip Ragnaros *19077*
[22:13:50.545] Konungr Rip Ragnaros 9261
[22:13:52.471] Konungr Rip Ragnaros 9261
[22:13:54.312] Konungr Rip Ragnaros *19077*
[22:13:56.355] Konungr Rip Ragnaros 9261
[22:13:58.382] Konungr Rip Ragnaros 9261
[22:14:00.417] Konungr Rip Ragnaros 9261
[22:14:02.454] Konungr Rip Ragnaros 9261
[22:14:02.861] Konungr casts Ferocious Bite on Ragnaros
[22:14:02.969] Konungr Ferocious Bite Ragnaros *12974*
[22:14:04.420] Konungr Rip Ragnaros 7952
[22:14:06.418] Konungr Rip Ragnaros 7952
[22:14:08.532] Konungr Rip Ragnaros *16381*
[22:14:08.541] Konungr casts Ferocious Bite on Ragnaros
[22:14:08.749] Konungr Ferocious Bite Ragnaros 19901
[22:14:10.317] Konungr Rip Ragnaros 9145
[22:14:12.431] Konungr Rip Ragnaros *18113*
[22:14:14.440] Konungr Rip Ragnaros *18114*
[22:14:16.557] Konungr Rip Ragnaros 8793
[22:14:18.323] Konungr Rip Ragnaros *18114*
[22:14:18.904] Konungr casts Ferocious Bite on Ragnaros
[22:14:19.233] Konungr Ferocious Bite Ragnaros *30037*
[22:14:19.973] Konungr's Rip fades from Ragnaros


So yeah - looks like it recalculates on Ferocious Bite

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Re: Blood in the Water

Postby Fonia » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:47 am

Yea that's the way I always understood it. Refreshes take a new snapshot of your stats but it keeps the # of CP from the original rip.

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Re: Blood in the Water

Postby Orka » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:48 am

Could this mean then that you may want to FB only when your Rip only has 3 seconds left, even during Berserk ?
Imagine that you cast your Rip at the last second of your trinkets procs, it's buffed with them, but 5CP later (possibly 3 GCD if your 3 Shreds critted), your trinkets procs having faded, your FB will refresh an unbuffed Rip, whilst your first Rip still had about 18seconds left on its duration.
FBing too soon could then mean a loss of dps on the first rip. During Berserk, should one spam shred at least during these first 20sec ?
O.

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Re: Blood in the Water

Postby Konungr » Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:03 pm

Orka wrote:Could this mean then that you may want to FB only when your Rip only has 3 seconds left, even during Berserk ?
Imagine that you cast your Rip at the last second of your trinkets procs, it's buffed with them, but 5CP later (possibly 3 GCD if your 3 Shreds critted), your trinkets procs having faded, your FB will refresh an unbuffed Rip, whilst your first Rip still had about 18seconds left on its duration.
FBing too soon could then mean a loss of dps on the first rip. During Berserk, should one spam shred at least during these first 20sec ?
O.



IIRC, Leafkiller or Alaron did some testing on this and it came back that it is an DPS increase to Bite at every 5 CP, except for SR ofc, during BitW phase.

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Re: Blood in the Water

Postby Orka » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:18 am

Ok so I guess there's no need anymore to make sure one applies a buffed Rip when approaching/entering the last 25% of a boss' HP... I'm kind of disappointed, I thought this trick was part of being a good cat. But let's think positive, I guess if BL is used at 20%, and one uses one's CDs at that time, the Rip gets eventually buffed, and potions and TF can be lightheartedly saved for maximum Berserk shredding/FBing frenzy. Maybe it's just one small Rip dps optimization stuff off our mind for the intense last few minutes of a fight.

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Re: Blood in the Water

Postby CaptainCub » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:02 am

Orka wrote:Ok so I guess there's no need anymore to make sure one applies a buffed Rip when approaching/entering the last 25% of a boss' HP... I'm kind of disappointed, I thought this trick was part of being a good cat.

This has never been part of our mechanics though.

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Re: Blood in the Water

Postby Orka » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:26 am

Edit:*double post*
Last edited by Orka on Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Blood in the Water

Postby Orka » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:26 am

CaptainCub wrote:
Orka wrote:Ok so I guess there's no need anymore to make sure one applies a buffed Rip when approaching/entering the last 25% of a boss' HP... I'm kind of disappointed, I thought this trick was part of being a good cat.

This has never been part of our mechanics though.

It has, for those like me and apparently Konungr too, who mistakenly thought the BitW refreshed Rip was keeping the stats of the base Rip, hoping this would increase their dps if they managed to put a violent Rip into BitW phase.
I even suggest we do some lobbying to obtain this change :p
"You may say I'm a dreameeer, but i'm not the only ooone..."
O.

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