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Re: Shannox

Postby Dysheki » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:52 am

Orka wrote:Was Rageface patched?


On July 14th here is the hot fix applied to Rageface: "Successful attacks on Rageface will now always be critical strikes while he is channeling Face Rage."

Orka wrote:This is an interesting concern I was having about NI and Tranquility. Fights like Shannox and Beth'tilac imply very high raid damage acting as a soft enrage, where it's usually during the last few percents that healing gets really hard. During this critical period, should we focus on downing the boss as fast as possible, or should we stop dpsing and cast Tranquility? Is it worth dealing 0dps at this dramatic time?


It's rough, but usually you can time it so it's not a huge dps loss. Typically in my raid on heroic Beth'tilac I'm told to tranq roughly around 20%. So knowing this I make sure to get a fully refreshed set of bleeds on the boss (using rake and then FB to make sure I deplete my energy) to get those ticking the entire time I'm tranqing and I'm regening some energy (granted I'm only 2/3 Furor so it will only go to 70 but I'm not sure I would get all the way to 100 while casting anyway). So at that point I'm only losing some melee swings and not much in the way of an opportunity cost for yellow attacks since most of the energy will be regening.

But the heal itself can be pretty useful. I can easily get 200,000 healing done in the few seconds it takes to cast. May not seem like much to a 25 man raid, but it's useful.

Edit: I used to rage when having to brez/tranq because of 4T11, but that's gone now. So happy.
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Re: Shannox

Postby Konungr » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:44 am

Dysheki wrote:It's rough, but usually you can time it so it's not a huge dps loss. Typically in my raid on heroic Beth'tilac I'm told to tranq roughly around 20%. So knowing this I make sure to get a fully refreshed set of bleeds on the boss (using rake and then FB to make sure I deplete my energy) to get those ticking the entire time I'm tranqing and I'm regening some energy (granted I'm only 2/3 Furor so it will only go to 70 but I'm not sure I would get all the way to 100 while casting anyway). So at that point I'm only losing some melee swings and not much in the way of an opportunity cost for yellow attacks since most of the energy will be regening.

But the heal itself can be pretty useful. I can easily get 200,000 healing done in the few seconds it takes to cast. May not seem like much to a 25 man raid, but it's useful.

Edit: I used to rage when having to brez/tranq because of 4T11, but that's gone now. So happy.


If you manage to use your tranquility during HeroLust, its cast time is reduced to roughly 5-6 secs, so its even less dps lost.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Orka » Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:08 pm

Ok thanks for the tips gentlemen ;)
O.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Fonia » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:57 pm

Konungr wrote:[

If you manage to use your tranquility during HeroLust, its cast time is reduced to roughly 5-6 secs, so its even less dps lost.


Eh I'd imagine it's a wash on that count at least, as it might cast faster, but you'd lose more dps per time spent tranqing than you would out of herolust. Especially if you use zero/potions during it.

However there could be another benefit to it. The hot portion of tranq would benefit from the haste buff, while our dots don't. Tho really our healers aren't usually falling behind during hero, so I dunno.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Konungr » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:04 pm

Fonia wrote:
Konungr wrote:[

If you manage to use your tranquility during HeroLust, its cast time is reduced to roughly 5-6 secs, so its even less dps lost.


Eh I'd imagine it's a wash on that count at least, as it might cast faster, but you'd lose more dps per time spent tranqing than you would out of herolust. Especially if you use zero/potions during it.

However there could be another benefit to it. The hot portion of tranq would benefit from the haste buff, while our dots don't. Tho really our healers aren't usually falling behind during hero, so I dunno.


HeroLust is 40 secs long, Berserk is 25 w/o 4PC, trinkets are 15-20, pot is 25 secs, 6 secs is nothing really lost, especially if you do it right as you hit 0ish energy, it gives you 6 secs to regen ~60-70 energy

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Re: Shannox

Postby adianar » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:16 pm

Would it be possible to begin to collect up the reg posts and heroic posts into different buckets? distracting trying to keep one differentiated from the other. We're attemping H Shannox 10 tonight. Looking for some tips..

Almost fire kitty...

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Re: Shannox

Postby Konungr » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:36 pm

Heroic Shannox is a simple Tank & Spank. You assign one raider, preferably a ranged to attack Rageface through the entire fight so that he keeps his attention and breaks FaceRage and kites him into the Crystal Traps to reset his stacks of the buff. The tanks run around and kite the dog/Shannox when needed for the tank debuff to wear off and all the dps just kill Shannox.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Qbear » Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:05 pm

adianar wrote:Would it be possible to begin to collect up the reg posts and heroic posts into different buckets? distracting trying to keep one differentiated from the other. We're attemping H Shannox 10 tonight. Looking for some tips..

Almost fire kitty...

Adi


It's an interesting thought that has many check marks in both the positive and negative sides. We'll most likely keep them together because a lot of things that effect heroic modes are extensions of their normal counter parts.

If you have a question; though, don't feel you have to search through all the posts just to see it has been asked before. We're not blizz, feel free to ask a question more then once as long as you don't abuse it if you know what I mean.

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Re: Shannox

Postby shinryu » Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:31 am

Konungr wrote:Heroic Shannox is a simple Tank & Spank. You assign one raider, preferably a ranged to attack Rageface through the entire fight so that he keeps his attention and breaks FaceRage and kites him into the Crystal Traps to reset his stacks of the buff. The tanks run around and kite the dog/Shannox when needed for the tank debuff to wear off and all the dps just kill Shannox.

<-- Just killed Rag so getting ready to start Heroic Shannox

Anyways, questions...I thought Rageface had no aggro table, so how does a ranged control him? Or does this come into play only when they go to break Face Rage, then drags them over to a crystal trap?

Otherwise, this sounds...well almost too easy the way you put it, kinda lame it goes from a fun little fight into a tank/spank if so for the DPS, with the tanks doing their usual thing.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Toro » Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:10 am

Shin, the fight is "easier on heroic." Tanks need to reset all stacks, and all mobs are "tanked."

Rageface Face Rages at random targets, and needs to be damaged, as well as can be slowed/kited... I don't honestly know the specifics of what our mage does for it, however, he breaks the Face Rage, as well as clears the stacks on Rageface by ice blocking, if not getting him in a trap (also, HoP works).

Other two mobs, Riplimb and Shannox, are tanked no more than 60 yards apart to prevent separation anxiety, and slows go up on Riplimb when he goes to recover the spear for Shannox, which is typically where either tank is lifegripped/gets boosts (Body and Soul, Stampeding Roar, Rocket Boots, Speed pot), if Riplimb isn't kited into a trap preceding the spear Recovery.

Basically, use all the traps, have tanks talk to see who needs what, and when, and have rogues disarm the immo traps...
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Re: Shannox

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:13 pm

Toro wrote:Shin, the fight is "easier on heroic." Tanks need to reset all stacks, and all mobs are "tanked."

Rageface Face Rages at random targets, and needs to be damaged, as well as can be slowed/kited... I don't honestly know the specifics of what our mage does for it, however, he breaks the Face Rage, as well as clears the stacks on Rageface by ice blocking, if not getting him in a trap (also, HoP works).

Other two mobs, Riplimb and Shannox, are tanked no more than 60 yards apart to prevent separation anxiety, and slows go up on Riplimb when he goes to recover the spear for Shannox, which is typically where either tank is lifegripped/gets boosts (Body and Soul, Stampeding Roar, Rocket Boots, Speed pot), if Riplimb isn't kited into a trap preceding the spear Recovery.

Basically, use all the traps, have tanks talk to see who needs what, and when, and have rogues disarm the immo traps...


Rageface's face rage is stopped by recieving 30k damage from a single strike. Mages or Ele Shaman are very good for this roll as they have powerful single target srikes. The made a change that any attack on Rageface is 100% critical strike so keep people from dying to RNG.

If you don't have rogues to remove all of the Immo trapps a DK or a feral using their cooldowns can soak them. We only have one Rogue so he is in the ranged group disarming traps and our DK's are soaking the Immo traps that spawn under his feet.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Eldhorn » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:22 am

DKs can use their Anti-magic Shell before stepping in the trap to fully remove it, save for a few K damage that slip through. No debuff or anything. ALso having a paladin run around like a mine sweeper with bubble worked like a charm.

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Re: Shannox

Postby shinryu » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:46 pm

So...I take it the immolation traps do something different on heroic instead of reg, where they just kinda sit there? Do they explode after a certain amount of time, or does he toss them out insanely fast or something?

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Re: Shannox

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:25 pm

shinryu wrote:So...I take it the immolation traps do something different on heroic instead of reg, where they just kinda sit there? Do they explode after a certain amount of time, or does he toss them out insanely fast or something?


Because Rageface and Riplimb now do a stacking damage debuff the longer they hit people controlling them is KEY. The issue with the immo traps is if Rage or Rip run over any kind of trap can't can't be trapped again for time (I can't think of the exact time off the top of my head). If you clear all the immo traps out as soon as they spawn only Crystal traps are left and the adds can properly be controlled.

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Re: Shannox

Postby shinryu » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:13 am

Tinderhoof wrote:
shinryu wrote:So...I take it the immolation traps do something different on heroic instead of reg, where they just kinda sit there? Do they explode after a certain amount of time, or does he toss them out insanely fast or something?


Because Rageface and Riplimb now do a stacking damage debuff the longer they hit people controlling them is KEY. The issue with the immo traps is if Rage or Rip run over any kind of trap can't can't be trapped again for time (I can't think of the exact time off the top of my head). If you clear all the immo traps out as soon as they spawn only Crystal traps are left and the adds can properly be controlled.

Ah I get it, mkay. Forgot the dogs running over traps was bad.

We're getting in practice tries tonight then doing it for "real" thurs, worked on getting a guildie his staff quests done, he's on the branch now collecting...souls or whatever.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Druidohorde » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:14 pm

Tips for Heroic…

Know where Shannox will be tanked. Stand in a position to prepot, and feral charge in as usual. Pop everything you have. When you first start off, you may not want to Feral Charge in until you’re comfortable with how the tank will be moving him.

You must be cautious in this fight. The tank will be moving him A LOT. Make sure you know how the tank will be moving him. (ask if you don’t know) A cleave will 1 shot you. After 6 consecutive attempts, and 6 cleaves to the face… you’ll learn. Ask me how I know.

Stand max range and always behind him. Never to the side. Its too risky. If the tank moves, you’re dead. Max range! Watch traps. If you hit an immolation trap, pop Survival Instincts and don’t worry you’ll be fine. (might wanna do this intentionally)

In my opinion, this is not an expertise fight (no AOE). Take it off your gear if you’re doing progression attempts on Shannox. You’re going to be spending a lot of time energy starved.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Konungr » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:35 pm

How are you getting 1-shot by the cleave? Also, AoE isn't the only reason for Hit/Exp, you'll see less dps loss from Hit/Exp capping on a Patchwerk fight than having bad OoC/Crit RNG.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Druidohorde » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:32 pm

How are you getting 1-shot by the cleave?

Cus heroic shannox's cleave hits our melee for more life than we have? I've had 4 of us die in one shot in some of our earlier attempts. "Oh, there goes group 2" lol

Also, AoE isn't the only reason for Hit/Exp, you'll see less dps loss from Hit/Exp capping on a Patchwerk fight than having bad OoC/Crit RNG.

I'm not getting into this. It was just my opinion. Having said that, I run Simcraft and all secondary stats are like 0.01 difference amongst each other as stated on these forums elsewhere. (to be honest, i disagree with the very small difference between secondary stats, but thats just me, and another topic)

I do believe there's a noticeable difference on AOE fights though. I personally keep an expertise set for Rag, sometimes Domo, and sometimes Beth if im not going up. Otherwise, I "play" with the other stats.

Either way, I don't think its a big deal nor worth discussing. Delaying a feral charge for an extra 3 seconds at the start of a fight cus you're cybering with the "hot girl" in your guild hurts more.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Konungr » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:37 pm

I've never been 1 shot by his cleave, which is why I'm asking. It's only ever done up to 90k on me, less than 75% of my health.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Druidohorde » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:16 pm

I'll check my logs and edit this post tomorrow with the numbers...

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Re: Shannox

Postby Qbear » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:31 pm

Oh I've been one shot. I've been one shot real good.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Toro » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:33 pm

I have to agree with being one shot by it; as have a DK, warrior, rPal, Enh, and a rogue, though, the rogue was the only one of us one shot by it who had less than 125k hp raid buffed... recruits, lol.
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Re: Shannox

Postby Konungr » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:46 pm

Well I wonder if when you're getting 1-shot, you are getting Crit by it, instead of just a regular hit.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Stenhaldi » Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:55 pm

NPC special attacks can never crit. And yes, anyone caught in the cleave is generally 1-shot from what I've seen. That's in 25s; might be different in 10s.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Konungr » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:38 pm

Stenhaldi wrote:NPC special attacks can never crit. And yes, anyone caught in the cleave is generally 1-shot from what I've seen. That's in 25s; might be different in 10s.


lolwut? Then why do all tanks have to take Crit Immunity talents, such as Thick Hide?

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