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Majordomo Staghelm

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Konungr » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:45 am

Eldhorn wrote:Cheesing the scorp with Pally cds isn't as viable anymore due to him getting faster energy the fewer target he hits. One single target on 25man would give him almost full energy right away, making it essentially a double swipe (It's like this in 10man at least, should be even more so in 25?).


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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby ShiftyWrathbringer » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:05 am

Konungr wrote:Wait What?

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Stenhaldi » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:30 am

Eldhorn wrote:If you don't have a ton of melee you can just put as many casters as possible (without forcing Staggy into Scorp) in melee range to keep them safe from jumps, and to keep dps higher.

Doesn't work - the jumps target by talent specialization, not position.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Konungr » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:39 am

Stenhaldi wrote:
Eldhorn wrote:If you don't have a ton of melee you can just put as many casters as possible (without forcing Staggy into Scorp) in melee range to keep them safe from jumps, and to keep dps higher.

Doesn't work - the jumps target by talent specialization, not position.


I seriously doubt this. Nothing else in the game smart targets by talent spec, and I doubt this does either.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Stenhaldi » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:52 am

Gravity core and static overload (twilight ascendant council) and engulfing magic (Valiona and Theralion) targeted by specialization. Staghelm's leap definitely targets by specialization as we've had warlocks stay in melee range (since it's a damage increase for them) and get targeted.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Konungr » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:05 am

Stenhaldi wrote:Gravity core and static overload (twilight ascendant council) and engulfing magic (Valiona and Theralion) targeted by specialization. Staghelm's leap definitely targets by specialization as we've had warlocks stay in melee range (since it's a damage increase for them) and get targeted.


Engulfing Magic targets by resource type, not sure about Static Overload, I don't even see that ability anywhere. Also, perhaps you just had too many in melee instead of ranged, many bosses, if not a bare minimum of x number of ranged targets will use their ranged abilities in melee: Festergut, Valiona/Theralion, etc.

What specs do Gravity Core and Static Overload target?

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Stenhaldi » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:15 am

Konungr wrote:
Stenhaldi wrote:Gravity core and static overload (twilight ascendant council) and engulfing magic (Valiona and Theralion) targeted by specialization. Staghelm's leap definitely targets by specialization as we've had warlocks stay in melee range (since it's a damage increase for them) and get targeted.


Engulfing Magic targets by resource type, not sure about Static Overload, I don't even see that ability anywhere. Also, perhaps you just had too many in melee instead of ranged, many bosses, if not a bare minimum of x number of ranged targets will use their ranged abilities in melee: Festergut, Valiona/Theralion, etc.

What specs do Gravity Core and Static Overload target?


Engulfing magic doesn't target ret paladins or enhancement shamans even though they use mana. Gravity core and static overload target non-melee specs only. Staghelm has never jumped in melee without a caster there, and has never jumped on a melee who was running out for a seed explosion.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Druidohorde » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:57 am

First time poster.

Although I’m not sure which specs are targeted, I have read that this is part of the selection mechanic. I can assure you I’ve never been targeted.

Thought I’d give my run down on this fight as a kitty. I originally struggled for a while on this fight due to the constant target switching.

I start the fight to the left of the raid by my lonesome, so I can Prepot and Feral Charge as the hunter misdirects to the tank. This allows my haste buff + ravage+guild bloodlust to stack at the start. Pop all you have. Stick your paws under the scorpions arm. I like to be perpendicular to Major as it seems the scythe sweet spot is a little larger (cone effect?) and doesn’t affect my shreds.

The key to this fight from a dps perspective is the cat phase, and doing it properly. Scorpion phase is self explanatory. I go all out on Major. If you’re using cooldowns during cat phase make sure you use them early, as later in cat phase he jumps too quickly. I focus target Major, and only use special abilities on him. When he jumps, I switch to a spirit and only auto attack while my energy is rebuilding. When major is back, I select my focus and use my energy on major again. This is done for two reasons, 1) because if I start using specials on the spirits ill lose any combo points left on Major. If I just autoattack the spirits Major comes back to me with combo points still there allowing me to put up my rip/rake, etc as usual. 2) Rip/Rake are useless on spirits as once they die, your dot is clipped/gone.
Make sure you do some dps to the spirits to keep your activity up, and your melee dmg up. If your raid leader complains you aren’t doing a tone of damage to the spirits explain to him how dot clipping works and tell him 40% of your damage is from dots.

Note, if there are 2 or more spirits up and I have a buff available, I contemplate swiping.

When you have to move from seeds. Move at 4 seconds… it shouldn’t take you more than 4 seconds to move out of the circle. If it does, buy a new computer. Moving at 5-7 seconds is a waste of dps time. Hit survival instincts while you’re out, and Feral charge back in. If you’re not topped off by the time you come back into the raid, complain about your healers.

Rinse, and repeat.

For heroic mode, it’s the same as regular except maybe you’ll be lucky and be one of the raid members who can stay behind the boss and not take any damage at all. Try to coordinate your cooldowns with your Damage Concentration buff.

There have been some discussion on spirits attacking you? Use the method above and they shouldn’t be on you since you’re not pulling a lot of threat on them. All melee are fairly durable, between rogues/druids with agility, and plate dps. If anyone in our raid was dying, I’d get on the healers. If this is heroic mode, I’d get on the tank as he should have zero threat issues by this level and is messing up your damage buff.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Konungr » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:09 pm

I don't think there have been any problems on Heroic Fandral with his Spirits since the Threat Hotfix going from 300% threat to 500% threat (THANK YOU BLIZZARD, I don't have to make Cower a part of my rotation anymore and can pop CDs at the start again)

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Larc » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:46 pm

Here's the logs from my guild's first heroic kill last night. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/89sk9pykukrv9ehu/dashboard/?s=10182&e=10782

We had a bear tank (not me), 9 melee, 4 healers, 11 ranged.

Strategy:
Nobody took Flame Scythe except for the tank. He only ate 1 every other scorpion phase and was loaded with healer and personal cooldowns to do it. For cat form we stacked at 7 leaps. So it looked like this 1-7-0-7-1-7-0-7. On the phases where he took no scythes, we (meaning ranged) spread out at 80 energy. We lusted as soon as we got full concentration.

On cat phase, the ranged and healers had set starting positions in as tight of a ring as possible, but so that only one person would take damage from a leap. When that person got hit they were supposed to step back behind the fire pool. This helps maximize concentration and reduce Staghelm's travel time.

Run out to the outside of the ranged ring with the seeds and don't blow anyone else up.

I didn't fully understand our strategy on the burning orbs, since I wasn't part of the orb tanking. But I know that we assigned 2 people per orb and I think we gave those groups a quadrant to be responsible for. If 2 orb spawned next to each other, the 2 groups would combine into a 4 person rotation. They were only supposed to take 3 stacks of the debuff before handing off. We did have an orb in melee, and we just tanked that one on an adhoc basis.



Observations:
Our approach was to keep concentration as up as much as possible. The only real sticking point we had when we were learning was figuring out a strategy for the orb tanking.

As far as the leaps, I only have anecdotal evidence that he does choose his targets by spec. First, that's what our raid leader told us. Second that's what I've seen happen. We've never had melee away from Staghelm when he leaps, we we have had ranged stray too close and kill the melee before. It happened towards the end of this fight, actually. A damn shadow priest killed me and 3 other melee.

We've never had problems with the spirits attacking anyone other than the tank. I wonder if that's because we only ever used one tank and he had tons of threat by that time.

I took Druidohorde's approach to the cat phase. Just FFF and autoattack the spirits. With the melee at full concentration they were going down fast anyway. I did hard switch to them a few times when the searing seeds knocked off enough melee folks concentration that we had more than one spirit up at a time. As long as the spirits don't need help, maximize your dps on Staghelm, imo.

If I berserked on cooldown, I would have been able to do 4 on this fight, but I only did 2. And the 2nd one was largely wasted. I think the best time in our strategy is at the start of a scorpion phase when the tank is eating a flame scythe. I have to see how the timing lines up. If anyone has any tips on this let us know.

And last, don't forge haste for this fight. I'm kicking myself over that. But at least we got him down and the tank and I each got a 391 staff!

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Druidohorde » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:13 pm

and the tank and I each got a 391 staff!

You sadgadfsgadf :!: hgadfhad :!: hdfh!!!!!

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Toro » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:54 pm

I can attest to Stag going for spec specific targets, as we have several... I don't want to call them "bads," however, their computers lack the ability to handle the raids we do, so on several occassions, we see those people try to slack and stand in melee, which has caused Stag to pounce the melee pack. Notably an hPal standing in melee, two attempts in a row.

I'd have to go back to mmo-champ to find it, but I'm fairly sure there was somethign in the blue post stating that 17 people stacked (25man) would keep Stag in scorp, and any less would put you in cat...


As for mechanics, initially when we started doing this fight I'd been pre-potting, then for cat phase 1 use berserk on second pounce, cat phase 2 pot on second cat, cat phase 3 bers on second cat... we're usually killing him about then. 9-6-6-6-6-6(?), though, sometimes second scorp phase is 5, instead of 6, depending on the CDs we have available, but we almost always take 6 pounces in cat phase.
I switched last night to the suggestion of FFF and melee, but I'd need more nights with it to get an accurate idea about how it's been working for me. Was nice to be able to freely use CDs, though... that was a plus.
Had been top add dmg by rake, mangle, shred, FB on adds, then switching back to Stag to at least put up a rake, and maintain the mangle debuff.

For orb teams, at least at range, we keep groups of 2, and I'm the swinger, in case someone died and we need someone to help eat stacks.

Thanx for the walkthrough on your kill, Larc! Brought to light one point I wasn't honestly sure of, as our guild goes a little ape*explitive* when things have to be improvved... orbs in melee. We'd been treating it like Baelroc crystals, and if you get a few stacks, you just walk through the melee back to the far side so we split orb damage. Until you posted that, I hadn't really read much about how other people did it, usually that people noticed others just keeling over to dying because they didn't handle it properly.
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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Kz2329 » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:15 pm

Eldhorn wrote:Cheesing the scorp with Pally cds isn't as viable anymore due to him getting faster energy the fewer target he hits. One single target on 25man would give him almost full energy right away, making it essentially a double swipe (It's like this in 10man at least, should be even more so in 25?).

.


AFAIK after the hotfix min 7 ppl are required to share the damage from the scythe now regardless of the raid size.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Kz2329 » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:17 pm

Eldhorn wrote:If you don't have a ton of melee you can just put as many casters as possible (without forcing Staggy into Scorp) in melee range to keep them safe from jumps, and to keep dps higher.


AFAIK it's the player spec (caster/heal), not positioning in the raid that makes the boss jump on that target.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Floofles » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:49 pm

Konungr wrote:
Stenhaldi wrote:Gravity core and static overload (twilight ascendant council) and engulfing magic (Valiona and Theralion) targeted by specialization. Staghelm's leap definitely targets by specialization as we've had warlocks stay in melee range (since it's a damage increase for them) and get targeted.


Engulfing Magic targets by resource type, not sure about Static Overload, I don't even see that ability anywhere. Also, perhaps you just had too many in melee instead of ranged, many bosses, if not a bare minimum of x number of ranged targets will use their ranged abilities in melee: Festergut, Valiona/Theralion, etc.

What specs do Gravity Core and Static Overload target?


>Hunters with engulf.

These things target by spec, trust me, i'm a cat.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Eldhorn » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:10 am

Well, what do you know ^^ I like being wrong, since I learn new things I wouldn't have otherwise. In my raid group we never had to do this since we always have me and at least one more melee, and that's always been enough.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Qbear » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:41 am

I don't want to add fuel to anything but I don't know how that stuff works I got amplified magic on Sindragrossa back in the day because I was tanking wanted to be a jackass and moonfire spammed the boss for the first little while.

I remember the highest parsing enh shamans back on HM VnT back in the day were ones that found someway to get engulfing magic on more then one occasion since our guilds enh shaman would always try and bitch he never got it.

But he played with a gamepad, keyboard turned, and died, a lot. But, that's another post.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Toro » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:11 am

QBear, I'm pretty sure that got hotfixed, but was the case for initial hBoT kills. I'd only gotten Engulfing magic once (When not a moonkin) and that was when I shifted out to bRez someone. Hadn't seen it after there was a post about who gets engulfing, as well as the lightning favoring ranged for EM.
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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby shinryu » Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:07 am

I'm more one to think it targets by specialization as well, every time our H Pally tries sticking with the melee, it likes to target him, whereas the 3 melee (myself, warrior, and dk) never get targeted.

Anyways I'm still fucking pissed my staff has yet to drop (I even got the caster one off rag for offspec, but still no fire cat, hell that stupid zoid greatsword dropped off him tonight and it has an even slimmer chance of appearing than the staff), but besides that rant...

Any tips for 10man Heroic? We're kinda confused on what strat to use, on our first serious night of tries we got him to 50% once doing it sorta like the way you'd do it normally, but yeah...not sure on what times to use for switching forms, etc. Any pointers?

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby BoldTM » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:29 am

Its hard if you dont say if its HM or Normal mode.

You need to consider 2 enrages, soft and hard. Hard is after 10 minutes and Soft Enrage is about around 4th special attack.

For HM you need to consider that you want your damage buff up as much as possible and due to only the scorpion phase is when its predictable damage you want to minimize the time in that form. However only 7 people need to soak the damage from the scythe so 3 dps can stay behind the scorpion without loosing the buff. So check how many scythes can you take before the healers cant keep people topped up with 3 people staying behind. That is your first stack cap.

Regarding Cat phase here is all avoidable damage more or less, if ranged is on their toes. Make sure that all ranged is stacked on the same side. Dont stand around him in a circle. Let the healers stand 20-25 yards from the boss in a first line, then your ranged stand behind them on max range. This will let all dps to be able to dps the boss even if he jumps. The only limit here is that you are able to kill cats before next spawns and that you can gather up between jumps. This will be you cap for this phase. We can do 8 easy on 25 so i cant understand why 10 man should be that much less.

You need to check your own limits.
How many stacks of scythe can you take before healers are not able to top up?
How many jumps can you do before adds spawns faster then they are killed?
How is our DPS compared to Hard Enrage and Soft Enrage

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby shinryu » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:10 am

Interesting...you don't do a circle? I'll make a note to suggest that...

We've been doing it in a fairly retarded fashion so far while trying to learn it (as of last week pre-nerfs anyways, dunno how it's gonna look now), which I won't go into since it was obviously the wrong way to do it reading your comments. But it involved everyone stacking after the initial two transformations and having 2 groups trying to move together during the cat phase >.>

As for the cat adds, do you mean everyone blasting them or just melee dpsing them down? The way we've been doing it is having us 3 melee killing them, can usually hit about 5 or so jumps I think before they become too much.

Also, how many healers should we be using? 3 seemed to have been rough still, can't imagine trying this with 2. And any tips for me to pass along to our ranged to not get hit by fandral's fire cat leap? That always seems to be a problem with them getting caught, even if they tried moving early.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby BoldTM » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:15 am

Circle works but to be honest in 10 man its only benefit is that its easy to see where you should stand. Ranged need to keep distance to the boss so that the fire is not to close to melee but most important you need to be able to move out of fire before u get hit. So if you are on max range, 40ish, and standing in a circle you will not be able to attack the boss when he jumps to the other side.

Cat adds, what i am saying, and many RL does not, is that they are not a threat to you until later stages and when dealing with orbs. In the first cat phase the tank and healer will be able to handle the extra damage of one more cat. DPS can then splash damage it, rogues are perfect, or dot it while focusing on the boss. Its when you dont get one cat down before the next spawns when you need to think about killing the cats. Then usually you let one melee go full time on the adds and add more focus on cats so they are max 2 up at start of next scorpion. As feral its very bad to switch to the add and you should stay as long as possible on the boss and make sure to use charge as much as possible, tough not directly after he leaps since you will land in fire.
NOTE: This is only if you are hitting the hard enrage timer and want more dps on the boss.

Now it have been nerfed so it should be easier.

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby mekell » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:18 pm

This is rediculously easy post-nerf.
Image

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby shinryu » Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:33 am

Well got the ultimate revenge on Staghelm...first heroic kill, got my fire cat staff, so yay :D

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Re: Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Stenhaldi » Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:41 am

If you switch to bear form before he casts searing seeds, Staghelm won't cast a seed on you.

(This also works with Thrall's tank buff on Ultraxion, at least in its present incarnation on the PTR.)

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