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Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:03 pm

Cowwface wrote:Hey tinder its Bull from the guild :D

I just have a few questions about my kitty druid im running right now
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... ace/simple
Right now im running a haste build with no hit/exp and ive tried crit builds with and without hit/exp and i cant seem to rise above a 18k-20k DPS hump....
My dot times are usually 90%+ (sadly i dont have any logs atm but ill upload sum as soon as we do sum new raiding)
I wanna know wat ur opinion is about my gear and stats and wat i should do to push out about this hump

Hey Bull.

Getting over that "hump" may simply be gear dependent. The biggest bump you can get would be a better weapon. Your spec looks fine for DPS talents. I do wonder why you picked up infected wounds over the interrupt. It's DPS nutral but still a lot less useful.

Your gear setup isn't a haste build but a mastery build with no hit/exp. Current stats are Mastery - 2052, Haste - 1185, Crit - 1150. This is by no means a bad build. If you wanted to try a haste build it would mean using more haste then mastery. If this is something you want to try I recomend you go to wowreforge.com. Great place to have a look at your stats and map it out before you spend a lot of money.

For your gems the only socket bonus worth getting is the one in your helm. Everything else should be 40 agi gems. I would also go with 22 agi to cloak (slightly better then the crit).

Can't tell much more till I have had a chance to look at some logs. Let me know when you want me to have a look.

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Not doing the DPS i probably should be doing....

Postby Flecks » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:15 am

I have good fights from time to time. Most seem to be around this area though. I'm looking for some insight, tips and such.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/5f82 ... 874&e=3198

or

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/jrlg ... 204&e=1474

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Re: Not doing the DPS i probably should be doing....

Postby Toro » Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:10 pm

Removing post; yes, I did look at the wrong logs.

The data I looked at listed a druid doing ~25% of their dmg to Rageface with rougly 30% uptime on rip and 75% uptime on rake, with melee being the highest dmging ability. I would call that "bad" however, yes, that is inappropriate feedback.

Wouldn't think you a douche for calling someone out on reading the wrong data, so no worries ~_*
Last edited by Toro on Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:18 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Not doing the DPS i probably should be doing....

Postby Flecks » Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:57 pm

I don't mean to come off douche like here, but you either don't know how to read logs or didn't look at them. On shannox it is heroic, and i have 100 percent dmg done to shannox. No other add or trap was hit for even a single dmg point. my bleeds uptime are 90.8 and 94 percent. I maybe wrong but i didn't think that was bad at all. As far as bael my uptimes are 96 and 93 percent, which again i was unaware that was bad. As far as SR goes it was up for 91 and 92 percent of the fights. TF was used on cooldown and lined up with dots as much as i could, maybe could of done better. If anyone has any real help or advice it would be much appreciated.

my armory link
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/i ... s/advanced

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Re: Not doing the DPS i probably should be doing....

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:15 pm

The logs are from Encore on US-Illidan. Going from that I can assume that this...http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/Flecks/advanced is you.
Gemming and enchanting look fine. As you start getting heroic pieces I would recommend you replace your pants with the Tier pants (I know they arn't that good) and get the leather helm off Rhyolith for your offset. This should serve to get you the most 391 pieces till you have Heroic Rag on farm.

Toro I am not sure what logs you were looking at but I see the following:
Shannox
- 23k dps (7.4mil damage done)
- 100% of damage done to Shannox
- 94% Rake uptime and 90% Rip uptime
- 3 Ravage hits
- 92% uptime on FF

Baleroc
- 26k dps (7.1mil damage done)
- 96% uptime on Rake and 93% uptime on Rip
- 99% uptime on FF
- Soaked 3 Crystals with out dying

When I have some more time I will review this in more detail.

Toro in the future when giving feedback to fellow community members using lines like:
"I'll assume you're doing normal mode, and go with you're having horrible uptimes on bleeds" and "As for Baelroc, you're having bad uptime, and I don't know if you're hit/exp capped and going for other stats after. Lots to take into account that WoL isn't showing me. Really just seeing overall bad uptime of dots/buffs." is not constructive. In this case it was not accurate either. Saying things are Terrible and Bad doesn't help figure out an issue and sure doesn't encourage folk to come back for further advise. Please in the future try to be more constructive with fewer negative adjectives.

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Re: Not doing the DPS i probably should be doing....

Postby Flecks » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:24 pm

As far as the off pieces go, i have the heroic helm and heroic gloves. I've just been lazy and haven't bought the teir pants. I was gonna go with the heroic legs off spider for the off piece. Any reason for the helm instead? Also thanks for looking, again any help would be great. I know there is something i am missing, I'm leaning towards lining up TF with bleeds better but i don't know.

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Re: Not doing the DPS i probably should be doing....

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:31 pm

Flecks wrote:As far as the off pieces go, i have the heroic helm and heroic gloves. I've just been lazy and haven't bought the teir pants. I was gonna go with the heroic legs off spider for the off piece. Any reason for the helm instead? Also thanks for looking, again any help would be great. I know there is something i am missing, I'm leaning towards lining up TF with bleeds better but i don't know.

The reason I prefer the helm is for volume of 391 options. If you use the pants as the offset you will not have any 391 options for your head until heroic Rag is on farm. If you take the head, the heroic legs are very easy to get, and you will have access to every heroic tier piece before you will get access to the heroic head.

Also I prefer the gloves for the FINAL off set piece due to the socket bonus. You get 10 extra agi from the socket bonus when using a 40 agi gem. The pants while they have good stats will only get you 20 extra mastery from getting the socket bonus. The offset shoulders have the same bonus and color but have hit as a secondary stat which we have plenty of on our other pieces.

EDIT: I merged this thread into the overall execution thread.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:30 pm

Ok Flecks I have looked more into the logs. Everything looks solid except for cooldown management.

For Shannox you started off great with a TF/Seed/Berserk all together right after a pre pot. After that though things seemed to stop syncing up. By mid fight you were using Seed with out TF at all. The end of the fight Berserk and Seed were used together, and TF/Pot were used together but they didn't overlap so you didn't get the full benefit. You do want to be using TF and Seed together every time. Because of Berserk pushing back TF it may get a little out of sync. When you have a fight so short like Shannox and Balroc you know you will only get 2 Berserks in so its ok to save it till you can line up a Berserk/Seed/TF/Pot combo near or below 25%. This will give you your best bang for your buck.

Baleroc was a little different. TF and Seed were lined up perfect all though out the encouner. However it looks like you used Berserk as it come off cooldown instead of using it with Seed and TF. As a result the Berserk pushed back your next TF/Seed usage. Because of this push back you were only able to use Seed 4 times during the fight when you should have been able to use it 5 times (also one extra TF could have been squeezed in for the last push. Same as Shannox, if you know you will only get 2 Berserks hold the second use till you can line it up with a TF/Seed. Also no potion use on this fight.

These are minor min/max adjustments, but they will push you a bit higher. Just keep up with the basics and you will be fine. Good Luck!

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Re: Not doing the DPS i probably should be doing....

Postby redline » Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:30 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:Also I prefer the gloves for the FINAL off set piece due to the socket bonus. You get 10 extra agi from the socket bonus when using a 40 agi gem. The pants while they have good stats will only get you 20 extra mastery from getting the socket bonus. The offset shoulders have the same bonus and color but have hit as a secondary stat which we have plenty of on our other pieces.


Sorry to be off-topic but just wanted to make a quick comment on this. Because the secondary stats on the tier legs are so lopsided, the itemization formula actually penalized them vs. a more evenly distributed item like Beth legs. Using Beth legs not only gains you the 20 mastery from the socket, but also 22 additional secondary stats, so you're comparing 42 secondary stats vs. 10 agility. YMMV depending which secondary stat you value more, but for the majority of people at that gearing level, offset legs will most likely come out very slightly ahead as Agi is not likely to be greater than 4x the worst secondary stat.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby ShiftyWrathbringer » Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:52 am

Hey!
Long time reader first time poster here :)

First of all i want to tell u sth about my current situation.
At the Release of Cataclysm i was raiding in a 10 man "progress" guild
and always was high ranked in scoreboards in feral dps (~top 2-50).

After a 2 months break i decided to join a 25man progression guild
to play together with my girlfriend again :)

After some gearing up and stuff I`m currently at 380 itemlvl.

The guild is farming 6/7 heroic right now and starting to do a lot of heroic rag attempts *sigh*

I am currently not playing at my place, so i decided to reforge on caps and after that completely
focussing on mastery, because of the lack of internet speed and good PC hardware.
I tested the Haste/Mastery hybrid forging, but it wasn`t as nearly "latency tolerant" as the mastery build,
where I most of the time only have to care about uptime.

Well, the reason why I`m looking for your help is, that I think I am not pushing my DPS
to the limit, and i don`t know why i can`t score these high numbers anymore...

Sure 10man and 25man is a completely different thing and its easier to score scoreboard rankings
in 10man just because of the lack of (good) ferals in 10 man setups, but when you are working on ragnaros heroic
with his "burst" phase(s) you just want to be in the best possible shape.

So maybe u got some ideas about what I can do better :)

thanks a lot in advance and sorry for the bad english (german guy here)

The example Logs:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/0wn0gt56az1elq7e/details/20/?s=1337&e=1584
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/olt4whcqx727lbru/details/0/?s=1706&e=2236

I`m not rly swiping @ majodormo heroic cuz these rogues rippin the cats apart like hell

I`m currently at work and armory is blocked -.-
so my char is shiftycent on wrathbringer EU

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:02 pm

ShiftyWrathbringer wrote:Hey!
Long time reader first time poster here :)

So maybe u got some ideas about what I can do better :)

thanks a lot in advance and sorry for the bad english (german guy here)

The example Logs:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/0wn0gt56az1elq7e/details/20/?s=1337&e=1584
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/olt4whcqx727lbru/details/0/?s=1706&e=2236

I`m not rly swiping @ majodormo heroic cuz these rogues rippin the cats apart like hell

I`m currently at work and armory is blocked -.-
so my char is shiftycent on wrathbringer EU

Hi Shifty. Welcome to the community.

You have a good handle on keeping the rotation going. Bleed uptimes are above 90%, you are double potting, and using Berserk as often as possible.

I think the biggest thing that will push you forward is lining up your DPS cooldowns. This won't be as big of an issue now that you just picked up Matrix (gratz by the way). It is really importent that you always line up TF, Berserk and Potions together. In both of the linked fights it seemed like you were just using abilties on cooldown. This can work, but is way more effective if you can go into Berserk with a pot and TF (full energy) before you go crazy. Having everyting line up will take you too that next level.

To be honest it may not be a huge jump. You are putting out pretty good numbers right now. I would also try and grab 4p. Use the helm off Rhyolith until Heroic Rag is on farm. You will be able to have access to the other 4 heroic tokens with ease.

Good luck on Rag.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Grenache » Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:58 pm

Just a quick question - in the Potion / Trinket / TF / Berserk macro you suggest for lining up cooldowns, can I add a Shred so that I don't energy cap by mistake? Sometimes with latency I find myself looking a bit like I'm capped and it might be advantageous to add a Shred to that macro. Would that work?

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Leafkiller » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:15 pm

Grenache wrote:Just a quick question - in the Potion / Trinket / TF / Berserk macro you suggest for lining up cooldowns, can I add a Shred so that I don't energy cap by mistake? Sometimes with latency I find myself looking a bit like I'm capped and it might be advantageous to add a Shred to that macro. Would that work?


It should work since none of the other spells you listed use a GCD. Test it out.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby ShiftyWrathbringer » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:01 am

Tinderhoof wrote:
ShiftyWrathbringer wrote:Hey!
Long time reader first time poster here :)

So maybe u got some ideas about what I can do better :)

thanks a lot in advance and sorry for the bad english (german guy here)

The example Logs:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/0wn0gt56az1elq7e/details/20/?s=1337&e=1584
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/olt4whcqx727lbru/details/0/?s=1706&e=2236

I`m not rly swiping @ majodormo heroic cuz these rogues rippin the cats apart like hell

I`m currently at work and armory is blocked -.-
so my char is shiftycent on wrathbringer EU

Hi Shifty. Welcome to the community.

You have a good handle on keeping the rotation going. Bleed uptimes are above 90%, you are double potting, and using Berserk as often as possible.

I think the biggest thing that will push you forward is lining up your DPS cooldowns. This won't be as big of an issue now that you just picked up Matrix (gratz by the way). It is really importent that you always line up TF, Berserk and Potions together. In both of the linked fights it seemed like you were just using abilties on cooldown. This can work, but is way more effective if you can go into Berserk with a pot and TF (full energy) before you go crazy. Having everyting line up will take you too that next level.

To be honest it may not be a huge jump. You are putting out pretty good numbers right now. I would also try and grab 4p. Use the helm off Rhyolith until Heroic Rag is on farm. You will be able to have access to the other 4 heroic tokens with ease.

Good luck on Rag.


Thanks a lot Tinder, nice to hear something like that from you!
Already switched some things around and macroed Berserk and potion together now,
only using an non pot berserk on fights like rag where i can be 100% sure to get at least
3 Berserks/fight.

I also did some simcrafting last night, and it seems that with the new trinket, haste is now gaining a lot of statweight
so i switched back to an haste/mastery hybrid build and will try this out.
Edit: Also trying to grab the heroic token for the legs this ID, i didn`t take it last ID because i didn`t have enough points
for the normal one...

Thanks again for the help and keep the good work up guys!
best feral site ever :)

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby mangle » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:27 am

Tinderhoof wrote:Hi Shifty. Welcome to the community.

You have a good handle on keeping the rotation going. Bleed uptimes are above 90%, you are double potting, and using Berserk as often as possible.

I think the biggest thing that will push you forward is lining up your DPS cooldowns. This won't be as big of an issue now that you just picked up Matrix (gratz by the way). It is really importent that you always line up TF, Berserk and Potions together. In both of the linked fights it seemed like you were just using abilties on cooldown. This can work, but is way more effective if you can go into Berserk with a pot and TF (full energy) before you go crazy. Having everyting line up will take you too that next level.

To be honest it may not be a huge jump. You are putting out pretty good numbers right now. I would also try and grab 4p. Use the helm off Rhyolith until Heroic Rag is on farm. You will be able to have access to the other 4 heroic tokens with ease.

Good luck on Rag.


I'm in the same situation as Shifty (ironically I have some one called Shifty in my raid who used to be a feral), we just started H Rag attempts this week. I'm having problems trying to swipe the adds effectively, our raid leader does not want me to run out and spawn my add in a another location so I can FC into the pack unless I can have a pretty good argument (even then he is a "My way or the highway" mentality)

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/m7ige0emxz1u3asj/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r4gvwfbkvw6zo4k1/

And on a second note, I want to push 30k+ on normal Rag (palced 13th at 29k parse tonight v_v)

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r4gv ... 442&e=4889

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby ShiftyWrathbringer » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:10 am

Hi mangle!

I am also not allowed to swipe the adds because we got 2 rogues already doing this...

In my opinion i don`t think thats very horrible, because its just progression and you have to play safe,
and if you got like 4 adds spawning out of the bomb because the melees want to get in there, its uneffective.
But sure i can help you finding some reasons to get into the cleaving buisness :)

Well first of all you HAVE to place your add outside the bomb, because it will kill you with ease if you don`t.
But there are some reasons to do so...

1. Cat massive AoE burst (everyone in here knows that :P)
2. if you got shadow priests you can charge in after the explosion, and the SPs can channel MindSear on you for more AoE Dps
3. Ferals can do this all the time because of charge
explanation: Rogues can`t stand there every wave of adds because of the cds of cloak n stuff (dunno what these yellow guys are using there), but feral can because of barkskin in safe position which is enoung to survive the explosion with high hp (60% plus) and then feral charging in + sprint/roar and swiping + ravage on the last ones so a feral is very viable in this situation, if this is enough to convince your raidlead.

Sadly for me it wasn`t so I just get parryed by rag all the time and doing some tranq an brezzing action :)

I hope this was a little help for you
and gl on rag!

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby pegàz » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:40 am

On Ragna i am the only one at the opposite of the raid for seed.
Just need to place well your seed without taking the damage of it and self heal with primal and lifebloom to top if you know a trap will explode soon. ( barskin/survival/bear regen/healthstone if not 100% )
I never die exept if i brain lag on the seed fall and a trap have been done befor so i am not 100% hp
Like that i can Aoe ADD staying middl keeping my bleeds up on ragna and kill my add with some littl help and eventually heal befor i go my opposite spot again.
Best part of the fight for me, enjoy if your raid let u do that :)

I try also an other way if u're stack with the raid, if the raid on right go full right 5s befor seed. Just be carefull to not run on the raid seed at the fall w8 and go, and be carefull of the fire let by the smash if u want to evitate both seeds fall ( your's and raid ) Like that u can AOE without any problem and strat change

ps: sry for my poor english

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What am I doing wrong?

Postby Talaya » Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:11 pm

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/a ... aya/simple

Hey there, I lead raids regularly as main spec Resto, though just recently i've had to take up a melee spot for a short while.

As much as I admire feral druids and have often seen the numbers they can pop out I am wondering what it is specifically that I am doing wrong?

If someone could check my gear and reforges it'd be awesome. (Some have been telling me to go for hit and exp, and some to go for mastery+haste?)

My current rotation is a manner of keeping my bleeds up, shredding for combo points, keeping savage roar up and keeping Tigers fury on CD (Using at below 40 Energy).
In an average Zandalari I can pump out around 16k sustained give or take - On a boss, around 18-19.

I've done Shannox and Baleroc as Feral and had very similar numbers - infact even a little lower I believe.

What am I doing wrong? Is it my hit, expertise? Is it my rotation or something else?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Tinderhoof » Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:35 pm

Hi Talaya. I merged your question into the Gearing and Execution thread. I will have a look in an hour or so (I have to go pick someone up).
-Tinder

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Talaya » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:07 pm

Ah, my apologies if it did not quite warrant a seperate thread - Newly signed up.
Thanks for the reply and I await your feedback. Have taken the advice of another and just this moment switched out Unheeded Warning due to the nerfs for Tia's Grace.
As i'm from ye olde britain I may not be here in an hours time but I will certainly take on board your advice and respond when i've slept.
Thanks in advance.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:11 am

Hi Talaya. First off Welcome to the community and the magical world of Feral DPS. There is no need to worry, you didn't do anything wrong. We are pretty laid back here. I only merged the threads cause I like to keep gear related questions under one thread. That way all this good discussion stays on the front page. You never know which of these posts may answer someone elses question.

On to the review. The advise you recived about Unheeded Warning was spot on. Another option if you are good with using your cooldowns on cooldown is Ancient Petrified Seed. If used with TF and Berserk it is a very solid option.

Your gear looks fine, and your geming and enchating (enchant your shoulders) are all correct. As for the reforging it's really up to you. While there are some small differences between reforging builds they are so close together its best to just use what ever you like best. For beginers I do recomend doing Hit/Exp caps. This will help smooth out the rotation and should help you get used to keeping everything up. Because you still have 2P T11 mastery is a good 3rd stat. I really recomend using wowreforge.com to help you plan out hitting your caps (way cheaper).

If you want to post a log I can have a further look. Hope that helps.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Arnathis » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:43 pm

Hello all, awesome thread here. Been a TFD follower from afar for a while now but just now decided to jump in on the action and actually post. I'm gonna post some logs of mine of heroic domo and reg rag kills on 25, any feedback would be helpful. I've read through the other posts here and i'm sure the first thing you'll say is that I need to line up my TF/zerk/ancient/pots better, and that's something i'm going to start working on, any other things you see that could help would be much appreciated. I can consistently rank in the 90-100% range but would love to push that a bit higher so that i'm ranking more often and also helping my team as much as possible. I'd also love someones suggestion for a cooldown tracker that I can use to help me line up those tf's/zerks/seeds more easily instead of having to look at my action bars. The macro I plan on using for this will be as follows

/use potion of the tol'vir
/use ancient petrified seed
/cast tiger's fury
/cast berserk

I've also had my seed macroed to my TF so that i'm always using those together even when zerk and pots are on cd. Does this sound right?

Here's the log from one of our raid nights: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ohqw ... /rankinfo/

Thanks so much for any feedback.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:17 pm

Getting way behind here.

Hey Arnathis. Welcome to the community.

I have only had time to look at the Staghelm kill. You put out good numbers and your bleed times are fantastic. You are correct that lining up your cooldowns will give better results.

Near the end of the fight during the second orb phase it looks like you took several hits. I can't tell if this was due to a bad spawn placement or assigned soakers died, but it was the single biggest DPS hit you experienced (and really the only issue here).

The macro you have below with also a TF macro so you are hitting seed every time its off cooldown will be that little extra oomf, but really I think you got just about everything else working just right for you. As an off question, do you have something to track your Matrix procs?

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Arnathis » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:08 pm

Thanks for getting back to me tinder. If I remember correctly the seed hit(s) I took were due to a bad spawn. We do something a little unique on heroic domo and pull him all the way to the other side of the room on orb spawns so a mage can solo soak the orbs and ice block, when his iceblock is up our other mage takes them. I'm thinking I just got too close to them while running to the other end. Appreciate the feedback. I currently don't have something to track my matrix procs, what would that help me with? I kinda just ignore it since it's doing it's own thing and whenever it procs it procs. I see you said you're getting behind on the forum so please take your time with this, no rush, whenever you can get back is fine, i'm on here rather frequently and won't be going anywhere. Thanks again!

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise)

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:27 pm

No big deal. I get urked when I feel I am not getting back to folks in a timely manor.

The reason I ask about tracking the matrix procs is knowing when the buff goes active and when its about to expire. Based on your logs you are proc'ing Mastery 100% of the time. When the proc comes active it's likely worth it to refresh both bleeds (as long as the rest of the rotation is kept up). When its about to expire make sure both get refreshed again. The longer time your bleeds are buffed the better use you will make of the proc.

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