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Ragnaros

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby shinryu » Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:21 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:
shinryu wrote:Finally killed Rag tonight, making us the 4th overall guild on our crappy server (and 2nd Alliance) to get him down. Managed to lose the Helm token roll, though the necklace was there as a compensatory prize (sadly no trinket).

Now to start heroic modes...Shannox first right? The other top 3 guilds are tied on only having a H Shannox kill, so yeah...ugh.

Dont' worry about getting the helm for 4p. You will want to use the Heroic helm of Rhyolith (likely your second or 3rd heroic kill) as your off set piece. It's not the best but you don't get better till you can get your hands on a Heroic Tier Helm.

Mmm you have a point, and I do use the reg Rhyolith helm anyways atm...but it's so darn ugly >.>

WTB Transmog for 4.2.2 ASAP.

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby Grenache » Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:12 pm

Can anyone give me an idea of reasonable Rip uptimes for Ragnaros? Also wanting to know whether DoTs drop off when he submerges? What's about the best uptime I can hope for?

I'm steadily improving my dps on this fight, and would like to get ranked oneday!

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby Ammiel » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:59 pm

He scrubs off debuffs like faerie fire and so on while submerging so I'd imagine the same goes for rip.
I always tank this fight though so I'm not really sure.

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby Eldhorn » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:30 am

The highest I've managed is 66.7%, but I guess if he scrubs the debuffs then going for that high isn't going to do much for your dps, since you'll be putting up a Rip before he submerges, just to gain a few more seconds before he removes them.
I guess aiming for 60% and pooling properly for Swipe fest and faster burst on adds would be more beneficial and yield higher results.
Edit: Found some logs where ferals had a lot higher dps than me (with a few more buffs that I was missing, but still), and had higher uptimes, so apparently you can go both ways. Somewhere between 60 and 70% should be fine though.

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby Toro » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:07 am

I've watched the lava and have seen the lack of ticking of my dots when Rag submerges. I tend to stock up CP when he's casting his submerge to get a 5CP SR to last through Sons, as I'm a bear and stun a Son (lol, that rhymed).

Looking at my usual uptimes, seeing >90% on Mangle, >75% on Rip/Rake, based on our last 3 Rag kills.
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Re: Ragnaros

Postby pureonyx » Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:20 pm

Hi all - I don't know how many of the readers are on heroic Ragnaros atm, but my guild are working on this right now and I thought I'd ask around to see if anyone else have comments / ideas about this encounter.

I'm finding it a fairly difficult and annoying fight at the moment, as after P1 ends I am reduced to pretty much using mangle instead of shred for almost the entirety of P2, and most likely P4 as well (haven't reached it yet). Combined with being unable to help aoe on the elementals (can't leave my seed out as I need to roar my raid) makes this very frustrating for me.

What are everyone else's thoughts/suggestions on this fight? Thanks in advance.

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby Konungr » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:59 pm

pureonyx wrote:Hi all - I don't know how many of the readers are on heroic Ragnaros atm, but my guild are working on this right now and I thought I'd ask around to see if anyone else have comments / ideas about this encounter.

I'm finding it a fairly difficult and annoying fight at the moment, as after P1 ends I am reduced to pretty much using mangle instead of shred for almost the entirety of P2, and most likely P4 as well (haven't reached it yet). Combined with being unable to help aoe on the elementals (can't leave my seed out as I need to roar my raid) makes this very frustrating for me.

What are everyone else's thoughts/suggestions on this fight? Thanks in advance.



I'm working no Heroic Ragnaros. Yes, having to mangle for phase 2 really sucks, and your uptimes are going to suffer since you will spend quite a bit of energy on Swipe. Speaking of which, why aren't you aoeing? Swipe is the third best AoE available, behind Mushrooms and Multi-shot.

Also, there should be absolutely no reason you can't Shred for phase 4, with the proper positioning of the boss/tank/breath of frost you should have no problems using Shred.

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby Azsuregos » Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:07 am

pureonyx wrote:Hi all - I don't know how many of the readers are on heroic Ragnaros atm, but my guild are working on this right now and I thought I'd ask around to see if anyone else have comments / ideas about this encounter.

I'm finding it a fairly difficult and annoying fight at the moment, as after P1 ends I am reduced to pretty much using mangle instead of shred for almost the entirety of P2, and most likely P4 as well (haven't reached it yet). Combined with being unable to help aoe on the elementals (can't leave my seed out as I need to roar my raid) makes this very frustrating for me.

What are everyone else's thoughts/suggestions on this fight? Thanks in advance.


It isn't impossible to Shred in P2. As soon as the seeds are dead our tanks moved back to mid so i could stay on the right side of Raggi and shred him. You just have to be back in mid when the next seeds will land (10sec before they land is my timeing to run back) and don't forget to be in Healer range if you caught a tick from world in flames or when a trap was triggered.

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby pureonyx » Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:08 am

Azsuregos wrote:It isn't impossible to Shred in P2. As soon as the seeds are dead our tanks moved back to mid so i could stay on the right side of Raggi and shred him.


I guess our tactic makes it impossible to shred in P2. We don't use the stand in middle for every seed spawn. We start on the left for the first seed spawn, go all the way to the right, wait for second seeds, all the way to the left. This strategy obviously makes it impossible for to position yourself in the way you described.

Konungr wrote:Speaking of which, why aren't you aoeing?


I am not leaving my seed out because I need to roar the raid, and it's tricky to be there in time. Maybe I can work with the order with the other druids to optimise that. We currently use two roars for every seed at the moment.

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby Azsuregos » Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:23 am

I guess your seeds run straight through the lava right? That really would make it impossible to swipe them. Just curious because i have to roar up my raid too and can nevertheless jump in the seed pack and aoe them. (with my add hitting me once sometimes twice, but the healers are prepared for that. I'm raiding 10m and have no idea if that is possible in 25m.)

If your raid doesn't move to another position you still can do so during world in flames (obviously after the seeds has been killed) and come back later for seed spawn. It will end up beeing the same as our strat where the tanks move back to mid.

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby Sorcerer » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:32 am

pureonyx wrote:
Konungr wrote:Speaking of which, why aren't you aoeing?


I am not leaving my seed out because I need to roar the raid, and it's tricky to be there in time. Maybe I can work with the order with the other druids to optimise that. We currently use two roars for every seed at the moment.


Stampeding roar lasts 8sec.
Roar 2-3 sec before seeds pop out from lava, go to your spot to leave seed further away.

This way you roar the raid for nearly entire running and can AOE the elementals. Thats how I do it.

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby Stenhaldi » Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:30 pm

Azsuregos wrote:I guess your seeds run straight through the lava right? That really would make it impossible to swipe them. Just curious because i have to roar up my raid too and can nevertheless jump in the seed pack and aoe them. (with my add hitting me once sometimes twice, but the healers are prepared for that. I'm raiding 10m and have no idea if that is possible in 25m.)

The molten elementals melee for about 500k when they're fully stacked in 25H.

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby Eldhorn » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:33 am

Konungr wrote:Speaking of which, why aren't you aoeing?


I'm curious about how you guys can manage to Swipe with that stupidly high melee damage.
I run 10man and we let our DK stand a little bit closer and blow his D&D and Howling Blast on the seeds before they reach him, and staying means he will almost surely die in a few seconds, even with him having all cds up, so having a feral run in and swipe actively until you're energy starved sounds like a quick way to get yourself killed without some serious cooldownage and heal spam.
Hau u do it?! I need to know this, because we take a lot of time killing our seeds down individually since we often lack the required ranged aoe. If what we're lacking is aoe damage we're pretty much stuck with this slow tactic.

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby Konungr » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:11 am

Eldhorn wrote:
Konungr wrote:Speaking of which, why aren't you aoeing?


I'm curious about how you guys can manage to Swipe with that stupidly high melee damage.
I run 10man and we let our DK stand a little bit closer and blow his D&D and Howling Blast on the seeds before they reach him, and staying means he will almost surely die in a few seconds, even with him having all cds up, so having a feral run in and swipe actively until you're energy starved sounds like a quick way to get yourself killed without some serious cooldownage and heal spam.
Hau u do it?! I need to know this, because we take a lot of time killing our seeds down individually since we often lack the required ranged aoe. If what we're lacking is aoe damage we're pretty much stuck with this slow tactic.


Right now our comp is something like this:

1 Feral
2 Boomkins
1 SPriest
1 AMage
1 ?Rogue (Usually Combat or Ass)

For each seed we stack on a circle, use Roar, run ~40ish yards away, and wait. I myself always pop at least Barkskin right before the seeds explode, so there is that 20% less damage from them. With the amount of AoE we put out, they are usually dead in ~3-4 GCDs.

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby Toro » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:09 am

When asking abotu "how to aoe" for the seeds, remember... the swipe range is the same as how a feral can kite a warrior in pvp, with the exception that it isn't after having just bled them up in a pounce/bash: stay between 5-8 yds away, just inside charge range, and outside of melee range. Easier to do in PvE, however, because you don't have them going in random directions to f with you.

It's not the prettiest thing, but if you get good at it, rawr... I know that, at least for Magmaw, I have swipe kited the worms with 2 shaman totems, so I'd assume that it can work for rag as well, though, I do not know if the seeds can be slowed, to keep them in the aoe pack, longer.
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Re: Ragnaros

Postby Azsuregos » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:08 pm

It isn't possible to slow them, but it isn't necessary either. Here is how i/we do it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFmfroDZ ... age#t=258s

Hopefully that will help. And i know the next seed phase is a close-call, but you can outrun them. Just let me say that i died maybe 10ish times doing this within 380tries of Ragnaros HC, we wiped a lot more on not having enough dmg to kill the seeds

Note: You shouldn't forget about the server delay, actually on my screen i always was a tad in front of my add.

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby Stenhaldi » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:27 am

Eldhorn wrote:
Konungr wrote:Speaking of which, why aren't you aoeing?


I'm curious about how you guys can manage to Swipe with that stupidly high melee damage.


The way to AoE in 25H is to drop your seed outside of the main stack. That seed will be the only one to lock onto you so you can safely AoE the main stack. (In 10H, apparently the molten elementals don't even 1-shot you so this isn't necessary.)

Note also that in 25H, reducing the number of seeds in the main stack has the benefit of increasing damage taken by this stack from the entire raid's AoE, since AoE damage (for most abilities) caps at 10 targets and there are 20 seeds.

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby Sorcerer » Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:18 am

I have a different issue, anyone got to feral charge in cat the molten elementals? I Tried entire night, without a success.

Wasting my time running into the main pack after the blow when my seed is trapped and far away.

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby Konungr » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:55 am

Stenhaldi wrote:The way to AoE in 25H is to drop your seed outside of the main stack. That seed will be the only one to lock onto you so you can safely AoE the main stack. (In 10H, apparently the molten elementals don't even 1-shot you so this isn't necessary.)


Not sure about this. In 10 Heroic, they target a random target.

Stenhaldi wrote:Note also that in 25H, reducing the number of seeds in the main stack has the benefit of increasing damage taken by this stack from the entire raid's AoE, since AoE damage (for most abilities) caps at 10 targets and there are 20 seeds.


That's why you need rogues with poisons.

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby Stenhaldi » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:25 am

Konungr wrote:
Stenhaldi wrote:The way to AoE in 25H is to drop your seed outside of the main stack. That seed will be the only one to lock onto you so you can safely AoE the main stack. (In 10H, apparently the molten elementals don't even 1-shot you so this isn't necessary.)


Not sure about this. In 10 Heroic, they target a random target.

100% certain, our raid has had 5 people do that for hundreds of attempts and they never get targeted by an elemental in the main stack (unless someone in the main stack dies or drops threat, in which case their elemental just obeys normal threat).

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby Konungr » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:52 am

Stenhaldi wrote:
Konungr wrote:
Stenhaldi wrote:The way to AoE in 25H is to drop your seed outside of the main stack. That seed will be the only one to lock onto you so you can safely AoE the main stack. (In 10H, apparently the molten elementals don't even 1-shot you so this isn't necessary.)


Not sure about this. In 10 Heroic, they target a random target.

100% certain, our raid has had 5 people do that for hundreds of attempts and they never get targeted by an elemental in the main stack (unless someone in the main stack dies or drops threat, in which case their elemental just obeys normal threat).


In that regard, it can be much more forgiving than in 10 man, since in 25 you can just take your seed and go solo it. In 10Heroic, there are 10 seeds, and they pick random targets, which means some unlucky person could get 2 or 3 targetting him, which is bad juju.

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby Hackx » Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:55 am

In our 10H attempts, seeds have never targeted random people. They always target they person the spawn on. I've been tanking it, but we have our arcane mage split from the group, then blink in and AE the group after they spawn, while our rogue solos the mage's seed. Should work for cats as well. Split from the group, then, after seeds spawn, charge in and swipe spam.

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby Konungr » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:09 pm

Hackx wrote:In our 10H attempts, seeds have never targeted random people. They always target they person the spawn on. I've been tanking it, but we have our arcane mage split from the group, then blink in and AE the group after they spawn, while our rogue solos the mage's seed. Should work for cats as well. Split from the group, then, after seeds spawn, charge in and swipe spam.



Except that 10 seeds spawn on 10 Heroic and not all 10 players will have a add targeting them. I have never seen less than 10 seeds spawn, and I have never seen less than 10 adds spawn, but I have seen people with no adds attacking them and I have seen people with 2 adds attacking them.

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby Hackx » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:13 pm

Konungr wrote:
Hackx wrote:In our 10H attempts, seeds have never targeted random people. They always target they person the spawn on. I've been tanking it, but we have our arcane mage split from the group, then blink in and AE the group after they spawn, while our rogue solos the mage's seed. Should work for cats as well. Split from the group, then, after seeds spawn, charge in and swipe spam.



Except that 10 seeds spawn on 10 Heroic and not all 10 players will have a add targeting them. I have never seen less than 10 seeds spawn, and I have never seen less than 10 adds spawn, but I have seen people with no adds attacking them and I have seen people with 2 adds attacking them.


I suppose we could be getting really lucky for something. Its just what I've noticed. Perhaps I'm too occupied with not dying to Rag, but I do know that I have always had a add on me, and our mage never gets melee'd.

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Re: Ragnaros

Postby Azsuregos » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:39 pm

Hackx is right. They only attack the guy which they land on. Though there are always 2 ppl in the raid who doesn't get attacked, you might guess - Yea, there are only 8 elementals.

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