I need help

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I need help

Postby Andanas » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:55 pm

I cannot kill healers at all. You name em, I can't kill em. I'm speaking in mainly 2v2, and yes I know the game isn't balanced around 2v2, but healers shouldn't be damn near invincible.

Basically what I try to do is work up to 5 CP by means of Mangle, Rake, and Shred. Next I maim, and use a focus macro to Cyclone his/her partner. Then I pop Tigers Fury, Berserk, and my PvP Trinket Vicious Gladiators Badge of Conquest (1794 Agi/20 sec). Next I refresh Mangle, and Rake if needed and I spam Shred until they are low enough to finish with a FB. Problem is, they either fear me, bubble, or what not and heal themselves to full. And I have no chance to burst them down again until my cool downs are up.

I run with a Resto Shaman, and her only real cc is Hex, which has a 45 sec cool down. But she's too busy keeping us both alive. I am at a loss as to what to do. Maybe ferals aren't meant to kill healers, I don't know. Any help would be greatly appreciated. ... s/advanced <-- My PvP spec and gear.

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Re: I need help

Postby Terias » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:50 am

The way you tackle a healer in 2's is dependant on what healer you have with you, what healer you're fighting, and their partner. My experience is in the nearly 2400's in 2's with a holy paladin healer.

In general, you want to avoid blowing everything early, the idea is to force cooldowns without using yours. In between berserks pool energy for large burst as often as possible. Hitting shred eveytime you just get enough energy isn't going to force any cd's, their instants and shields will refresh quick enough to keep up with that. But if you do very little damage, they will save their heals. Hit them with 3 shreds in a row (or 3+2 tf'd shreds) and they will be forced to hit instants, and then fake cast/cast heals, or pop cd's.

Most instant heals have some sort of cd associated with them, pay attention to it and throw burst in just after it's used. You can use maim to force pressure but remember that you won't have it again for a while. Use bear bash often; make sure you anticipate using it so you aren't sitting in bear for 1.5s while your window of opportunity closes. Predict when it'll be needed and shift beforehand.

Pooling energy is very important, outside of the burst you should just do the bare minimum, keep up bleeds, use energy right before you cap out at 100.

Against all healers - remember that roots and hibernate are both dispellable, cleanse is actually expensive now and forcing them to cleanse can win you the mana war - if you blow berserk, try to force mana pressure if you don't forsee a kill. Root/hibernate the partner to force cleansing, especially effective if you are on the healer and he is trying to kite and los's his partner. You will get partial cc and he will blow mana on the cleanse.

Take advantage of your cc, hex isn't on dr with cyclone or roots, alternate them on the dps so your shaman is free to pressure more often. In order to score kills you have to both dps/interrupt the healer and control the dps.

Specific strategies:


You're running with a shaman, so in general you shouldn't kill holy paladins when you fight them. That doesn't mean you won't ever kill any, especially in your bracket. You may be able to target swap after a bubble or palaldin may be wearing bad, take advantage of openings like that. Nomrally though, paladins are very easy to control, and they build word of glory faster if you sit on them. You can sit on their dps and off cyclone them, interrupt when they have to big heal using a focus macro, and your shaman can also interrupt and hex them. If they pop bubble to stop you from cycloning at a critical moment, that may be a good time to swap to them - but in general if you force a bubble you can probably force a kill if you repeat the pressure.

For killing the paladin; paladins have a lot of instant cast heals to work through, so you may have to maim to force a cd - don't fall for the fast divine light or fakes. If you blow maim or have no combo points, you can cyclone an aura mastery to wait it out. Bear bash him out of the cyclone before you start bursting. If the paladin chooses to bop himself, or you take too long after a bubble and he gets to bop himself - cyclone the bop, it will prevent heals. You want to save berserk for after a bop or bubble, but before you go blowing berserk try to either have yourself or your shaman get a school lock. It will help you out a lot.


Some teams you will want to be on the shamans, some teams you won't. Caster teams I tend to sit on casters, melee teams I usually sit on the shaman. Mage teams I may swap to the shaman if they are playing too defensively. Shamans do not have an aura mastery, and they only have spirit link and ns as their big cooldowns. The difference is that they have a lot of offensive pressure and utility which only priests come close to. If you sit on the shaman, don't interrupt lava burst and remember that lightning bolt/hex will interrupt their healing spell schools. If hex does get off, cleanse it quickly. They can ghostwolf and earthbind you to get away, but you are one of the worst classes for them to control. I find shamans the easiest healers to kill when I can get on them, time your stuns effectively and score a few good interrupts and you should be good. Remember he can purge your ps procs and ground your ps casts, try to kill the grounding totem before your ps casts if you can.

Resto Druids

There aren't many high restos on my bg that play 2's. If they are playing with a caster I stick to them until I force tree (control damage), if a melee I stick on the druid until tree, swap for tree, then swap back after tree is down. The goal for resto druids is to force tree without a berserk, if you can use interrupts, cyclone for energy regen/to stop lifeblooms, stuns, whatever you have to do. Force tree then go hard on them and they should die. Your shaman can purge them down while you kill them. Their heal throughput is very low outside tree and if you get dispels on roots/hibernate you should be able to stick to them and train them down. Your healer really has to be on the ball with dispels, because the druid has mutliple methods to control you.

Disc Priest

These are probably the hardest healer for my team, the offensive pressure combined with the cooldowns they have makes it very hard to score kills. My paladin is rolling disc so we can try disc/feral 2's. Like the paladin you either have to stun or cyclone the inner focus. They are hard to interrupt since penance heals on ticks and they tend to interrupt it right after 1 or 2 ticks, I wouldn't waste your time interrupting penance. Scream cd is predictable, shaman needs to be ready to dispel it when it's ready. Try to berserk after pain suppression/inner focus, at least one of them - if he only pops one you should be able to deal with it during berserk, but if he has both us you probably won't kill him.

Hope these tips helps, the biggest tip I can give to any pvper though is to just communicate better, when I join bad teams to help them get points the biggest problem is almost always communication.

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Re: I need help

Postby Andanas » Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:59 am

Thanks for the reply. I don't have time right now to read and digest everything at this minute (headed to work), but i did want to thank you for taking the time to write such an extended reply. I'll read it more closely when I get home tonight, and I imagine I'll have a question or two.

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Re: I need help

Postby Andanas » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:48 pm

A couple of questions come to mind. Is there an addon that will track the cool downs they cast, and the duration remaining? I don't know all the cool down's healers have, or their duration. Also, can you explain how I'd tell the difference between a fake and real cast?

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Re: I need help

Postby Terias » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:19 pm

When you interrupt a heal you also lock out heals for a duration of time based on the interrupt used. For instance, if you interrupt during a heal cast you will stop the current cast and also lock them out of casting heals for 4 seconds. If they make it look like they're going to cast a heal, then they stop, you will skull bash and it will miss their cast (this is due to a lot of factors including lag and server to client delay). You just have to get a feel for when someone will fully cast a heal or when they will fake it. In general if the healer isn't threatened by your damage they will likely fake cast your heals. If they aren't threatened by your interrupt (out of range, not targeting them) they will cast a heal without faking it. If they are threatened by damage they have to make a choice of whether to fake or not, which is where good healers seperate themselves from the bad ones in a lot of ways.

Most healers have addons that tell them when you have your skull bash up (or they wait for the debuff to pop up). They will heal and interrupt it before you can skullbash, and then if you waste it they will cast a full heal without fear of interrupt. Because if you get a full interrupt on them, it not only stops their current cast (wastes whatever seconds into the cast they were), it wastes 4 seconds + the cast time of the next heal they use before they can heal up. A successful interrupt is a very good way to start a cc chain (or end it).

For addons, Gladius is an addon that many arena players use. It gives information about CC dr's so you aren't maiming people while they are DR'd or cloning people when it would be a waste. The version with fixed DR's isn't up on curse I don't think, is a working version.

If you need to track enemy cd's beyond that, you can use Gladiatorlossa - a voice announcement mod that's very popular. Icecicle is another useful mod for tracking duration remaining on cooldowns, it attaches cooldown icons to nameplates. Or you can write custom scripts in scrolling combat text or power auras I believe as well - there are lots of routes for mods that check the combat log and alert you when cd's are back up for enemy players.

Oh yeah, you should play with nameplates on too if you don't, very useful for pvp.

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Re: I need help

Postby Antioch » Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:51 am

Juked For showing enemy cd's
diminishingreturns For tracking your dr's. I also use Gladius but have the dr feature turned off as it breaks more often than it works. This addon is also very helpful in that it doesnt only work in arena, it can be attached to your targets bar, focus bar etc so it can be used in any pvp situation not just arena. And it never breaks :)

GladiatorlosSA As Terias mentioned, this is an amazing addon. Was a bit of a secret for a long time but is now much more common place. It almost plays the game for you :) The one problem i would say about this addon, especially starting out is that it forces you to not have to look all around your screen because it tells you everything you need to know. As such this ends up damaging your awareness. Still tho, its amazingggggg! :)

Platebuffs Shows when enemies use cd's with large icons attached to their nameplates. Icicle however as mentioned by Terias, shows ability cd's on nameplates. Both have their uses (but not together, it gets very cluttered) I do not like using GladiatiorlosSA as it takes too much of the challenge out of the game for me, i still cheat a little tho by using platebuffs along with juked to be able to track all major ability use and cd.

Posts: 144
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Re: I need help

Postby Terias » Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:17 pm

Oh and if you get good and plan to pvp seriously, binding your keys in an efficient and easily accessible way is probably the 2nd greatest thing you can do to improve your play. You absolutely don't want to click anything important. As a feral half of getting behind your target is using your mouse for motion and not for clicking icons and nameplates on your screen whenever possible. If you have to click you can't properly face your targets back.

Place keys in positions so that you don't accidentally hit the wrong button. Make sure all your binds are accessible while you're "in motion" (this is especially important as feral, you don't want to have to stop strafing to hit an important button that requires you be on your target). Binds should be close to your hand or on your mouse - if you have extra mouse buttons you should bind skills to them.

Practice using the new binds and be open to switching them sooner rather than later if you think you can be more efficient. It takes a long time to unremember binds, but as long as it takes it still pays off.

I personally had horrible binds all through classic, tbc, and a large chunk of wrath, and I wasn't very open to changing them because they were working at my level. I noticed pvp got a lot easier when I wasn't worried about hitting the wrong key or having to reach across the keyboard to hit 5 and 6. Sit down and just figure out what keys you have, what you can put on modifiers, what you can consolidate with macros - what needs to be focusable (cc's, skull bash), and where you should bind abilities so they aren't awkward to press.

Also excellent addons, I may try the ones I hadn't heard of.

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Re: I need help

Postby Andanas » Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:47 pm

The only clicking I do, are abilities that I have key-bound, but on modifiers. I guess I never really conditioned myself to use modifiers. Obviously something I need to work on. Anyway, thanks for the advice. I won't get a chance to do any arenas until this weekend, so we'll see how it goes then.

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Re: I need help

Postby Cunjumiwroth » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:58 pm

Hi. some great advice given already (keybinds & addons).

If your binds are tight & well placed you'll be so much more proficient.

re killing healers, if you really want to put the pressure on em hard try this Uber One Shot damage macro.

/cast Barkskin
/cast Tiger's Fury
/cast Incarnation [kingofthejungle]
/cast Nature's Vigil
/cast Berserk
/use 14 ....{{actvts trinket agility boost if you have it there}}
/use Virmen's Bite ....adds agility 4k, yes, you heard me! 4000 ffs, use it if you can!!! ^__+

Now you can spam 'Ravage' on top of your bleed DoT's to maximum effect.
Throw in your faerie Swarm & time your finishing moves to your combo points so you get the free swift heal off predator's swiftness as it buffs up. Get the 'Drood Focus' addon, it shows CP's & predswift very nicely and you can even have a sound tell you it's ready!. Drood Focus is a must have for ferals imo.

Hope that help's.

Bonus Bit...


(part 1 of 2) Due to the stance line, you should instantly get the 10 rage heal & you can repeat this endlessly.

/cast !Bear Form
/cast Barkskin
/cast Nature's Vigil
/cast Might of Ursoc
/cast Survival Instincts
/cast Lifeblood(Rank #) {{#rank number# this line is for herbalistsonly}}
/use healthstone ....{{miss this line out or leave it in it's optional}}
/cast [stance:1] Frenzied Regeneration

The exclamation mark in line one is very useful.
It keeps your form so if you repeat press the macro it'll do endless 10 rage heals (nice, but part 2 is even better).

Used in a small cat macro it can help break out of some stuns...

/cast !Cat Form
(just keep reactivating it.
Survival (part 2 of 2)

/cast Frenzied Regeneration
/castsequence Faerie Swarm, Thrash, Lacerate, Mangle, Mangle

Mash this one & keep targetting something for higher rage heals constantly. (The Faerie & Thrash is optional but i like).

NB, If the part 2 process shorts out enmash, refresh manually one of the spells, then, back in with the mashcro (xD) I actually tend to hit the manual spells listed in it as well as the macro itself, which if balanced well, gets better results (tip: bind the survmacro PT2 spell near to the manual spells for this one)

Using those two surv macros listed above, I have competently managed to tank in BG's & keep it together, just threw in the odd growl to draw aggro (no enrage as feral sadly) but it can be done!

Quick swift heal:-
{{pop the button twice}}

/castsequence Reset=20 Natures's Swiftness, Healing Touch

Using those survival maccys combined with the oneshot, for combats, should up your chances=)

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