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I may be mad but...

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I may be mad but...

Postby Dabeasty » Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:25 am

...I actually think the Feral 'rotation' since the patch is more difficult than before, not less.

By that I mean more difficult to get bang on, maxed out, perfect. I accept that a poorer rotation doesnt gimp you quite so much as before though.

On the up side I have longer rakes, longer SRs and I can afford to let my SR slip for a little while. On the down side though I have to absolutely ensure that my timing is spot on for (near as dammit 100% uptime on) a full 5 point Rip and that my TF cooldown stays in synch with my (every other) Rake if Im going hit my max potential dps. This makes weaving in my Ferocious Bite even more dangerous...if you do it without enough uptime on Rip and then get unlucky with combo point generation you can take a massive hit on your dps from lost Rip ticks. I think the Ovale scripts for example give 10 secs grace time on Rip...Id be inclined to make it a bit longer in practice. Note: the bug with Rip dropping off earlier than you expect due to the Shred glyph thing doesnt help.

I can put out about 11.8k on the heroic dummy, unbuffed which is very close to my Mew maximum. I have spent MUCH time practicing it...yet still I find I occasionally drop down to 10.8 or so...annoying! I managed 19.3k on Saurfang 25 (my first raid since the patch) last night which disappointed me - but I happened to have a baby in one arm and struggled to play one handed (and soon after had to give up alotgether!). Maybe next week I'll manage the 20k Im after grrr! :) Again tho, I suspect Im going have to really work hard to ensure my rotation is perfect to get what Im aiming for.

I have always found Feral performance across our server amusing...it seemed to be all or nothing...people hitting top end numbers (few) or dying on their feet and getting laughed at by Tank who out dpsed them (many). I can see this changing a lot. I think many more Ferals will hit 80 - 90% of their max dps now and far fewer will be languishing below the tanks. However, I can also see far fewer really reaching the dizzy heights of 100% their potential.

My thoughts on this may change over the next few weeks as I get more used to the changes but this is how I feel right now.

How are you lot finding it?

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Re: I may be mad but...

Postby Goodmongo » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:29 am

I'm not as well geared as you are but even if I was there is no way I could hit 19-20k dps on that fight. the reason is our tanks aren't geared enough for it. I'm seeing that dps also depends on the TPS that the tanks can do. While we have the cower button it costs up 20 energy and GCD which means a loss in dps for 10% less threat.

I agree that more ferals will be doing decent dps and move up in the charts. But to be really high not only means timing our rotations and abilities but also making sure the tank is at the top of his/her game.

Maybe this is what blizz was really after. No more face rolling a place because the tanks just can't hold aggro. If this holds for the rest of Cata then it will be really interesting because a bad tank will result in lower dps or more wipes. I can hear it now "Will you guys give me a chance to get aggro before attacking". :) Heard and said that many times in TBC days.

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Re: I may be mad but...

Postby Dabeasty » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:56 am

Thats a really good point. I had to throw in a number of Cowers last night. Having good tanks and plenty of Rogues (Tricksing) and Hunters (MDing) also helps.

Interesting your point though...a thread just popped up on our guild forums today about giving the tanks a few seconds head start ....not seen one of them for a while :)

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Re: I may be mad but...

Postby Leafkiller » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:17 pm

After having worked on the sim/Ovale scripts my feeling is the rotation is more complex to perfect. Also, I am not convinced that someone doing the rotation poorly will do 80-90% of a good rotation. I have already seen larger swings than that in logs I have looked at - which were attributable to low uptimes on Rip/Rake. Looking at world of logs for some ferals who were strong pre-patch, most of them are down 10+% from where they should be, and I have seen some decent ferals down as much as 30% compared to 10% pre-patch. Maybe this is a leaening curve issue, but there is more complexity to understand now.

As a side note - here is something that will could your life easier. Every time I have modeled trying to sync Rip/Rake with TF in Mew's sim, it has always been a dps loss. I believe the reasons for this are casting TF with too much energy and/or OOC is a dps loss so it there is some delay before it is cast over the course of a fight, and waiting on Rip/Rake for TF (even when TF is off of cooldown) results in more dps lost than gained by the 15% by lower uptimes on Rip/Rake. So you can simplify your rotation some by removing that restriction and gain a small amount of dps. If I find data that this is not the case, I will let you know.

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Re: I may be mad but...

Postby Goodmongo » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:45 pm

I gave up trying to time the rip/rake with TF. After I did that my DPS went up. So I'm playing the so called easier rotation of just keeping up rip/rake, SR when needed and with 1 or more CP's, TF on CD and FB if 10 to 12 seconds left on rip. I still tend to shred a little too soon and don't give my energy the proper amount of time to build but that has always been an issue for me. :)

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Re: I may be mad but...

Postby Luekos » Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:00 am

I haven't had a really good play around since 4.01 due to my desktop breaking down and being forced to play on my terrible laptop (12-20 fps on lowest settings) however the time I have had on the dummies I have managed to reach about 9k practicing the harder rotation. I usually have it pretty under control but I do often make mistakes due to a lack of practice. I feel like I have got a bit to go till I am at 90-100% of my potential. I actually found the older rotations alot easier, infact I am sure I would have been generally playing at 98% of a feral druids capacity most of the time. This refresh during TF is really tricky.

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