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Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

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Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby shinryu » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:21 am

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mists- ... culator#UZ!

Some interesting notes for Feral spec (old talents that look to be rolled into leveling abilities). All subject to change of course:

All the normal expected abilities are there; Wild Charge will replace FC as of now it looks like, as well as rolling Stampede into it. One big change though, we get Thrash now as well as Swipe; arguably this will be good if Thrash benefits from Mastery dunno if it'd outright replace it. Dash and OoC still remain, Swipe and Survival Instincts also looks to be baseline, but SI is renamed to Might of Ursoc.

For Guardians, gets kinda odd...Savage Defense is no longer passive, but instead an active use ability with rage that reduces all incoming damage by 60% for 3 seconds, with no obvious cooldown. The mastery still increases the absorption of savage defense, so more than likely it's not changed just yet, otherwise it's saying you can theoretically block all damage for 3 seconds with enough mastery? Even that seems kinda wrong, unless they're making some big changes to how rage is generated since it's so easy to get rage after a bit. Overall, Feral and Guardian still share most of the talents, Bears just get a couple of tanking differences it seems. The main thing will be Feral cannot be Def capped since it's now a Bear leveling ability, so they will take crushing blows if you go hero cat, dunno how even the armor boost from Heart of the Wild will help vs that.

Our new ability (learned at 87) will by Symbiosis; "Creates a symbiotic link which grants the Druid one ability belonging to the target class, varying by the Druid's specialization. In exchange, grants the target on Druid ability based on their class and combat role. Lasts 1 hour and persists through death."

Kinda out there...granted, you all probably know my feelings against the return to hybridization, which this talent pretty much goes into. Still, kinda interesting at face value.

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby Konungr » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:42 am

We also get our Wrath style rotation back with Savage Roar being returned to its 30% Physical Damage buff version. Also, possibility of forgoing Feral Charge for Incarnation looks like a very interested DPS boost if you couple it with Berserk, since they are both a 3 min CD, and Ravage stays significantly ahead of Shred in DPE.

Looks like Faerie Swarm won't give much benefit at all to PVE so looks like we get a Catphoon that will help our utility when it comes to fights like Heroic Ragnaros.

Most of our Glyphs and Talent mechanics that change our rotation significantly have been baked into the spells themselves. Also, NI is being changed to increase our Spell Power, instead of just Intellect, which will most likely make our off-heals much more significant, though I mourn the loss of Lifebloom to feral, as that was one of our best tools in a PVP arsenal (when in the hands of the right person with proper skill)

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby Terias » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:41 am

Interesting note, some old abilities like bash list that they force you into a form, which means there's no longer a gcd wait period before you can activate them.

Also the way it works, for dps checks wouldn't picking up hotw and reforging for as little hit as possible now be part of our max dps builds? If you aren't hit capped it's a 45 sec duration "zero to hit cap" cooldown.

Survival Instincts also looks to be baseline, but SI is renamed to Might of Ursoc.


Actually might of Ursoc is half of FR, not SI. Cats lose SI, but we keep the 'last stand' portion of FR.

I don't think symbiosis will be a hybrid type ability, it's more likely you'll steal something relevent to your spec (or a utility skill). It says what spell is taken varries based on the druids spec and the targets class (and the other way around for the ability we give them). So it'll either be utility or something dps related for cats that the targeted class has. I'm wondering if the world explodes if we put it on another feral.

No way to turn off infected wounds? No out of combat res? No remove corruption?

Remove corruption is a pretty big pvp change, and I'm pretty sure no other class lost their cross spec cleanses. Shadow priests still list dispell magic (self/offensive) and shamans/mages kept remove curse.

No passive damage reduction in bear, we lose all of our bigger defensive cooldowns, and lifebloom is gone (the only heal that wasn't worthless for us). Not sure I'm liking our pvp survival.

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby Wicks » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:58 am

[this is all pure speculation, of course]
Re: Symbiosis, which looks pretty shocking to me.
From the wording of the spell itself, I cannot gather whether:
1. we will be able to choose which spell we take (I am guessing no)
2. we will be able to choose which spell is taken from us (also guessing no)
3. is the spell we take added, or does it replace the spell we give? (if its added, we can share with other melee, if its replaced, it will depend on what we get and what we give i guess. otherwise this kinda makes us share with healers/casters so we do not lose core abilities)
4. similarly, is the spell we give just taken away from us?

has BIG potential to really mix and match and probably thoroughly change the way we play our druids, depending on answers to previous questions.

for example if i am, as a feral, making a symbiotic connection to a priest and them taking (lets say) Regrowth*, what useful thing could i get from a priest? feral casted melting face dot? *[e] just saw ferals lose Regrowth, so, example should be another healing spell.

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby Terias » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:34 pm

The spell is predetermined, and I'm pretty sure it will work similar to the DK ability Dark Simulacrum.

I'm guessing they'll put a new ui button that is specifically for this ability (sort of the like the extra action button for specific encounters that's in 4.3).

The ability they get is based on their role and class, the ability you get is based on your spec and their class (not their spec), the text is specific.

I don't think you need to have the ability in either situation. It doesn't imply that you will give healers feral available abilities or healers will give you healing abilities. The text implies that the ability each person gets is just based on class and the recievers role entirely. That means you could give a priest a healing cd, even if you don't have it. Or if you used it on a tanking warrior you could get a dps cooldown one of his dps specs has.

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby Terias » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:46 pm

With dispatch do rogues have a execute range positional requirement now?

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby shinryu » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:47 pm

Terias wrote:With dispatch do rogues have a execute range positional requirement now?

Well first of all, only one spec of rogue (assassination) will have it, and it's intended to replace the current mechanism of talents supporting Backstab use when the target's under 35% (only mut rogues have an execute phase mind you, combat and sub just continue their rotations as normal).

But yeah, it doesn't look like it has a positional requirement (awesome for mut rogues, yay), but Backstab for Sub (as the only users of it now) still has the positional requirement.

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby Terias » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:43 pm

That was really my question, I know a specific spec of pve rogue uses bs at sub 35%.

I also know that as far as pve goes, they were really the only other spec that had a positional requirement.

If that's gone we're the only ones left?

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby Qbear » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:00 pm

I'm just happy they kept claw in the game. I really don't know what I would of done if they had removed that one.

edit on a serious note looking more closely it does seem trash will be useable in all forms and the tooltip to swipe now reads it does 20% xtra damage to bleeding targets which could make aoe a little bit more interesting with savage roar increasing physical damage again.

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby Konungr » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:14 pm

Qbear wrote:I'm just happy they kept claw in the game. I really don't know what I would of done if they had removed that one.


Well they didn't make Mangle nor Shred baseline for Druids. They are still both Spec specific, and apparently Resto and Boomkin need a Direct Damage Combo Point generating ability. As I am reminded every time I mention the need for Claw to become equal to Mangle's Damage, Energy Cost, and not generate a Combo Point; so that Feral's have something to do when switching to a target, such as Majordomo's Kitties. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... 584?page=1

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby Terias » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:39 pm

I just throw a quick swipe off.

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby Andanas » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:59 pm

I'm curious as to why Rake was removed.

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby Terias » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:00 pm

It's still there, level 6.

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby Andanas » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:06 pm

Terias wrote:It's still there, level 6.
Oh you're right, my mistake. Last night when this was first released, for some reason, I couldn't find it for the life of me.
<--- Noob lol

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby Konungr » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:20 pm

Also, with the change to Swipe benefiting 20% extra damage on Bleeding target it will make for a decent mechanic, using Thrash before Swipe.

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby Terias » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:32 pm

Yes, we'll have to pool energy in aoe situations. Thrash doesn't last long, can probably get 2 swipes per thrash w/o tf or berserk? 3 possibly 4 in a thrash with tf.

Along with the above, since SR is being changed to 30% physical we'll also have to keep up SR. Ideally refreshing before aoe situations are coming - but if we can't do that we'll have to throw out a quick single cp sr before thrashing.

Similar to how it worked in wotlk.

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby Konungr » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:41 pm

Yeah, I'm incredibly excited for this.

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby shinryu » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:55 pm

Terias wrote:That was really my question, I know a specific spec of pve rogue uses bs at sub 35%.

I also know that as far as pve goes, they were really the only other spec that had a positional requirement.

If that's gone we're the only ones left?

Sub still uses Backstab (and theoretically it's the highest DPS spec of the 3 rogue specs in pve, though no one likes to use it since to play it perfectly to get those numbers is far too much trouble than its worth and it's far too easy to mess up and end up doing less dps), so they still have the same issues, but that's still 2 specs that have to deal with crap other melee classes/specs don't have to deal with, which is ridiculous overall.

It also appears Mangle won't boost bleed damage (dunno if that's an error or not), but if so, we'll be dropping Mangle entirely it looks like except for their stupidly designed encounters that would warrant its use.

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby Konungr » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:56 pm

shinryu wrote:It also appears Mangle won't boost bleed damage (dunno if that's an error or not), but if so, we'll be dropping Mangle entirely it looks like except for their stupidly designed encounters that would warrant its use.


We've known about this for several weeks now.

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby Terias » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:37 pm

This is an intentional change, yeah.

They should really just remove shred and up mangles damage at this point.

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:10 pm

Terias wrote:Interesting note, some old abilities like bash list that they force you into a form, which means there's no longer a gcd wait period before you can activate them.

Also the way it works, for dps checks wouldn't picking up hotw and reforging for as little hit as possible now be part of our max dps builds? If you aren't hit capped it's a 45 sec duration "zero to hit cap" cooldown.

The intention of having Hit boost in Heart of the Wild by 100% is to help get from the melee hit cap of 8% to the spell hit cap of 17%. The point of this cooldown is to pop out of cat/bear form and do DPS for 45 seconds using a toolset we would not normall use. From a raiding feral's perspective the only time we would take this talent is if there is an extented amount of time we will be out of melee range on a target but still in spell casting range. The thing that continues to bother me is this talent will only help druids for specific encounters. If the tier has these types of encounters (ie healers need to stop and dps, melee sits around and does nothing) then druids will become "The" class for that encounter. If they don't have those spots the talent is a complete waste. Either way is bad for us because either we get calls for "NERF" or no one ever picks the talent. The worst example is a Guardians using this talent. Why on earth would a bear swap out and cast spells instead of going cat and mangle spamming? Remember according to the Q&A mangle will not be less then a 5% damage different from shred which Guardians won't have. I expect this talent to go through the most change.

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby Terias » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:23 pm

I know exactly what the intent of this talent is, and it's worthless for that intent. No encounter will be designed to require it, so taking advantage of it will be a dps loss (else bad encounter design).

However, as a dps cooldown - if you gear out of hit as much as possible, I bet it sims as a dps increase.

You'd gear avoiding hit on all of your gear, best case it would provide 961 rating for 45 seconds (at current tier).

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby shinryu » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:24 pm

Terias wrote:This is an intentional change, yeah.

They should really just remove shred and up mangles damage at this point.

Or alternatively, ditch shred's positional requirement and lose mangle XD

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby ShmooDude » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:44 am

Tinderhoof wrote:Remember according to the Q&A mangle will not be less then a 5% damage different from shred which Guardians won't have.


That 5% number is actually quite interesting now. Assuming Mangle/Shred damage/energy values stay the same, Shred is exactly 5% more DPE than Mangle

530%/35 vs 636%/40 (Shred actually hits exactly the same as before, the 30% from Savage Roar simply replaces the 30% Mangle debuff, but Mangle gets the 30% from Savage Roar that it didn't have before).

The real damage loss to Guardian Cats is not Shred, its Savage Roar + Rip + Mastery. That's over half their damage gone. Might not even be worth going cat for now.

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Re: Official MoP Talent Calc up on site

Postby Konungr » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:49 am

Holy Crap, ShmooDude has enlightened us of the fix Blizzard is applying to our Shred problem. The 30% Physical damage buff that will affect Mangle actually makes a rather LARGE change, so instead of it being a 5% DPS (Total DPS of the Shred Rotation versus Mangle Rotation), it's going to be a lot less (ignoring the parry mechanic of course, that all melee face).

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