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Wrath Cat musings (not the expansion)

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Wrath Cat musings (not the expansion)

Postby ShmooDude » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:31 am

I posted this on the druid forums but I'll probably get some more informed responses here anyhow.

Just thinking out loud here.

Our auto attacks have always been pretty abysmal and with Savage Roar being changed to affect all physical damage by 30% instead of auto-attack damage by 80%, its going to be even more so.

What if we use the Master Shapeshifter talent to replace those wimpy auto attacks with our newly spell powered Wraths!

A little napkin math...

w/o Savage Roar self buffed my auto attacks hit for 1400-1600 non-crit @ 43% crit 24% glance for an average of 2167 DPS. Times 1.3 = 2817 DPS

6705 spell power * 0.879 coef + 1036 (what my wrath hits now) = 6930 avg Wrath @ 92.38% hit @ 7.98% crit @ 2.35 sec cast time for an average of 2941 DPS.

That's before we even take into account MS's stacking buff to damage.

This obviously wouldn't be viable in all encounters as we become vulnerable as a caster and cannot move while casting as we can while meleeing. Even still, not a rotation for the faint of heart.


Example (0 haste for simplicity):
0.0 sec 100 energy -> -35 Rake +10 regen
1.0 sec 75 energy -> -40 Shred +10 regen
2.0 sec 35 energy -> Wait .5 sec +5 regen
2.5 sec 40 energy -> -40 Shred + 10 regen
3.5 sec 10 energy, shift out (no GCD incurred) -> Wrath +30% dmg +25 regen
6.0 sec 35 energy -> Wrath +20% dmg +25 regen
8.5 sec 60 energy -> Wrath +10% dmg +25 regen
11.0 sec 85 energy -> Cat Form (GCD from shifting) +10 regen
12.0 sec 65 energy -> -30 Rip +30% damage +10 regen
13.0 sec 45 energy -> -35 Rake +20% damage +10 regen
14.0 sec 15 energy -> -40 Shred +10% damage +10 regen
21.5 sec 90 energy -> Wrath x3 +30/20/10% +75 regen
22.5 sec 100 energy -> Cat Form +10 regen
23.5 sec 70 energy -> -40 Shred +30% +10 regen
and so on

It gets a little easier with a bit of haste because it won't be quite so tight. You're basically getting a modifier on every single ability (except when you use TF and Berserk but at that point you're already getting a boost from elsewhere) and auto attack vs wrath is a wash not counting that. However...

The big question mark here is omen of clarity. Supposedly, the way OOC is worded now it should proc off offensive spells for us in addition to auto attacks, but for the life of me I couldn't get it to proc off a wrath. If it doesn't work off of spells, then it becomes a question of how much of a loss is that (and how well can a player realistically keep up the rotation). What I would figure is if a Wrath proced an ooc you'd immediately go back into cat and use it.

Again, I'm not saying all cats will play MoP like this or anything like that, I just thought it might be interesting. Probably won't be viable, but its an interesting thought at least. This was mostly a thought experiment to try to get rid of the boredom before 4.3 comes out. >.>

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Re: Wrath Cat musings (not the expansion)

Postby Konungr » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:43 am

I just glanced over the napkin math, because even with it being a DPS Increase, this talent, the way it is now, is going to be a PITA, since its basically popping out of form every 15 seconds. One thing I did notice, however, was that when you went back into Cat Form you used a Rip with 30% increased damage, a Rake with 20% increased damage, and a Shred with 10% increased damage. I may be wrong, because it is still PRE-ALPHA, but I'm almost certain that the stacks will be 10% increased damage per attack, not "cascading" like you have them (Couldn't think of a term that would actually be used to describe it, so I applied one I thought would be good).

The way I think it would work would be a Rip, Rake, and Shred, each with a 10% increased damage buff to them. Otherwise it could be exploited by simply popping out to cast Wrath every time you used an ability and just continually keep up 30% extra damage on all your abilities, as much as a nightmare as it would be.

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Re: Wrath Cat musings (not the expansion)

Postby ShmooDude » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:50 am

Konungr wrote:I just glanced over the napkin math, because even with it being a DPS Increase, this talent, the way it is now, is going to be a PITA, since its basically popping out of form every 15 seconds. One thing I did notice, however, was that when you went back into Cat Form you used a Rip with 30% increased damage, a Rake with 20% increased damage, and a Shred with 10% increased damage. I may be wrong, because it is still PRE-ALPHA, but I'm almost certain that the stacks will be 10% increased damage per attack, not "cascading" like you have them (Couldn't think of a term that would actually be used to describe it, so I applied one I thought would be good).

The way I think it would work would be a Rip, Rake, and Shred, each with a 10% increased damage buff to them. Otherwise it could be exploited by simply popping out to cast Wrath every time you used an ability and just continually keep up 30% extra damage on all your abilities, as much as a nightmare as it would be.


Hrm, you may be right, I hadn't thought of it that way, but it could work either way. But yah, its defiantly an extremely PITA rotation, it'd really only be well utilized on a Patchwerk type fight of which there are only like 1 per tier. It'd be like Sub Rogue rotation, on steroids!

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Re: Wrath Cat musings (not the expansion)

Postby Konungr » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:52 am

From what I understand, the current Sub Rotation closely resembles our Wrath John Fucking Madden rotation. (This is a reason I love being a member of the FluidDruid community as well as being on the Official Druid Forums)

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Re: Wrath Cat musings (not the expansion)

Postby Yawning » Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:04 am

Auto is not nearly as anemic as people think it is, and scales quite well with ilevel/raid buffs.

With an ilevel 410 druid (self buffed), back of the envelope math gives me ~4.6k auto DPS (after adjusting for new SR), and ~3.7k DPS from wrath spam (this is somewhat of a low ball since I didn't bother pulling out what the spell crit rate would be, but the impact is minor at best). Assuming they don't change the potency of the buffs they will keep, the discrepancy climbs to 5.7k vs 4.1k with raid buffs in the picture (NB: All figures done without consumables. The Wrath side of thing also didn't get the benefit of the on use trinket/Kiril the profile has because you would have to be a retard to shift out when you have those procs going. Without those, white drops to 4.2k (unbuffed) and 5.2k (buffed)).

While amusing to look at, I assume this will either be more trouble than it's worth (if it isn't already) or a flat out loss, though a lot depends on what changes between now and the time this launches.

If people care enough I can sim it (all of it) fairly trivially and get somewhat better numbers, but looking at something that's near impossible to pull off without inhumanly perfect execution with a fairly massive downside on failure, that will probably get scrapped or reworked because it's a cumbersome and awful gimmick, with enough unknown variables that any data would be a guess is rather non-interesting and I can think of a better use of my time.

PS: You will get a gain out of it if the talent considers PSed casts as "non-instant" since a PSed wrath will pull ahead, but that's a questionable assumption to make, and to me is a even more brain damaged concept than the current practice of running out to get Stampede procs.

PPS: Disentanglement feels better, because dead kitties do 0 DPS. *shrugs*

PPPS: If it isn't obvious, I think that looking at things in depth pre-alpha/beta is a gigantic waste of time, beyond "does this mechanic feel fun, and does it flow well". Determining from my post my personal answer to the question is left as an exercise to the student.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."

Mew: http://code.google.com/p/mew-wow-druid-model/

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