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397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

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397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby Konungr » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:53 am

So I spent the last ~4 hours looking through MMO-C and WoWhead PTR databases compiling and analyzing our BiS options. Using both Mihir's stat weights, and a balanced set to come to my results. Sadly I posted them all on the Feral Sticky on the ODF and it got shut down right as I was going back to copy all the information over. I'm going to get a few hours sleep, since my guild is going to be raiding for an extra 2-3 hours tonight (Have to go back to Firelands to work on another Legendary after we get done with our normal raid times in Dragon Soul), and by the time I get up, the forums should be up for me to copy the information over.

The following is using 397/403 Gear.

T13 Offset Piece priority:
Underdweller's Spaulders (Morchok) > Gain ~25 DPS
Bladeshadow Leggings (Crafted) > Gain ~25 DPS
Shadowbinder Chestguard (Valor) > Gain ~15 DPS
Lightfinger Handwraps (Valor) > Lose ~15 DPS
Nocturnal Gaze (Valor) > Lose ~20 DPS

Valor vs. Raid Drop BiS:
Belt of Flayed Skin (Warlord Zon'ozz) > Gain ~85 DPS
Belt of Hidden Keys (Valor)

Interrogator's Bloody Footprints (Yor'sahj the Unsleeping) > Gain ~40 DPS
Rooftop Griptoes (Valor)

Bladeshadow Wristguards (Crafted) >
Shadow Wing Armbands (Warmaster Blackhorn) >
Bracers of Manifold Pockets (Valor)

Valor Point Potency Priority:
Kiroptyric Sigil (Unless you are upgrading another item from a 359, this is your Best Buy upgrade)
Cameo of Terrible Memories (2nd Buy, Only Neck Option this tier)
Ripfang Relic (3rd Best Buy, Only Relic Option this tier)
Batwing Cloak (This ranks 6th in the list, but the next two options have better tier counterparts)
Lightfinger Handwraps (These rank higher in list [4th], but Tier is BiS & Set Bonus.)
Shadowbinder Chestguard (These rank higher in list [5th], but Tier is BiS & Set Bonus.)
Rooftop Griptoes (Both Raid Drops are better)
Belt of Hidden Keys (Raid Drop is better)
Nocturnal Gaze (Tier is better)
Bracers of Manifold Pockets (Crafted is better than both Valor and Raid Drop)


BiS Gear List: Normal Dragon Soul/Valor (397/403)
Deep Earth Headpiece
Cameo of Terrible Memories (Valor)
Underdweller's Spaulders (Morchok)
Batwing Cloak (Valor)
Deep Earth Raiment
Bladeshadow Wristguards (Crafted)
Deep Earth Grips
Belt of Flayed Skin (Warlord Zon'ozz)
Deep Earth Legguards
Molten Blood Footpads (Spine of Deathwing)
Signet of Grasping Mouths (Hagara the Stormbinder)
Seal of Primordial Shadow (Any Boss Except Deathwing)
Vial of Shadows (Any Boss Except Deathwing)
Wrath of Unchaining (Spine of Deathwing)
Ripfang Relic (Valor)
Kiril, Fury of Beasts (Madness of Deathwing)

Link to BiS Set: http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items=77 ... 7271:77016
Unenchanted/gemmed/reforged, this set provides:
Mastery: 583
Crit: 1260
Haste: 1934
Hit: 813
Exp: 1225
Last edited by Konungr on Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby Shandrahyl » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:13 am

Oh bad luck, well thanks anyway. Im kinda busy during the past and days and upcoming 2 weeks, so cant create an own list. Cant wait to see the result of ya work.

till then <3

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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby Serringa » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:04 pm

I made a quick and dirty BiS list a few days back. These are normal mode gear links.

This list should be taken with a grain of salt as I just eyeballed stats, no actual simulation work.

Weapon: Kiril, Fury of Beasts (Madness) The staff from Yorsahj is also a big upgrade over heroic FL but it looks like Kiril's proc value is going to be incredible.
Relic: Ripfang Relic (VP)
Trinkets: Vial of Shadows (shared boss loot), Wrath of Unchaining (Spine) - both of these are an upgrade even at the LFR level
Rings: Signet of Grasping Mouths (Hagara), Seal of Primordial Shadow (shared boss loot)
Head: Deep Earth Headpiece (Blackhorn)
Neck: Choker of the Vanquished Lord (H-Ragnaros) **
Shoulder: Underdweller's Spaulders (Morchok)
Back: Dreadfire Drape (H-Rhyolith) **
Chest: Deep Earth Raiment (Ultraxion)
Wrist: Bladeshadow Wristguards (crafted)
Hands: Deep Earth Grips (Zon'ozz)
Waist: Belt of Flayed Skin (Zon'ozz) or possibly Belt of Hidden Keys (VP) depending on secondary stat weights vs. agi
Legs: Deep Earth Legguards (Yor'sahj)
Feet: Molten Blood Footpads (Spine)

** heroic FL loot BiS unless a 397 VP piece can be upgraded to heroic, which it appears is not the case

This means that VP is just being used to fill in spots where we get unlucky with drops, plus relic. Which is great!

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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby shinryu » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:09 pm

Huh, I didn't know my H Rhyolith cape was so valuable if that's true...

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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby Serringa » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:36 pm

The only cloak option is from VP, Batwing Cloak. It has no known upgrade to heroic.

VP cloak:
1 red socket
10 agi socket bonus
10 more base agi from higher ilvl

H Rhyo
2 red sockets
20 agi socket bonus

That's a net win of +40 agi (with rare gems, +50 with epic). That outweighs the difference in secondary stats - 67 more points on the VP cloak.

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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby Konungr » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:47 pm

Updated

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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby Serringa » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:55 pm

Konungr wrote:Bladeshadow Leggings (Crafted) > Gain ~45 DPS


This seems odd. The tier piece has red/red/blue sockets and crafted has red/yellow/yellow, making the tier piece's 30 agi socket bonus worthwhile. Does the mastery on the crafted piece outweigh the gain of 5 agi and 25 hit (epic gem numbers)? I thought shoulders would come out on top as the off-tier piece.

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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby Konungr » Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:04 pm

Serringa wrote:This seems odd. The tier piece has red/red/blue sockets and crafted has red/yellow/yellow, making the tier piece's 30 agi socket bonus worthwhile. Does the mastery on the crafted piece outweigh the gain of 5 agi and 25 hit (epic gem numbers)? I thought shoulders would come out on top as the off-tier piece.


You're right. I forgot to factor in the +20 Hit from the blue gem, which brings the gap down to ~25 DPS, still in favor of Bladeshadow Leggings. This means that both the Crafted Legs, or the Shoulders would be tied for top off-set piece. Morchok's is probably easier to get and very slightly ahead of Bladeshadow Leggings. I will amend and update.

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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby Serringa » Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:31 pm

Another consideration for those pushing heroic progression and prioritizing crafting mats across a guild in the early days is that the crafted legs are an investment for a piece that will be replaced with heroic tier, as the shoulder is currently the clear choice for off-tier at 410.

By contrast, the crafted wrists are nearly BiS for the entire tier. The heroic wrists from Blackhorn are only a tiny bit better, if at all.

TL;DR: craft the wrists first for sure, maybe don't craft the legs at all

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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby Alathriel » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:32 pm

Hey,
I was wondering if anyone did the loot ranking of 378-391 firelands gear with the 4.3 gear, including the 384 raid finder gear.

Thanks ^.^

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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby Leafkiller » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:11 pm

I question getting using Valor points on the Kiroptyric Sigil given that testing results that Yawning posted:

Vial of Shadows (E410), Wrath of Unchaining (E416)
Vial of Shadows (E397)
Wrath of Unchaining (E403)
Vial of Shadows (E384)
Wrath of Unchaining (E390), Starcatcher Compass (E410)
Starcatcher Compass (E397)
Kiroptyric Sigil, Matrix Restabilizer (E397)
Matrix Restabilizer (E384), Starcatcher Compass (E384), Ancient Petrified Seed, The Hungerer (E391)

Early on Valor points will be precious and should be focused on gear that is not likely to be replaced quickly.

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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby Konungr » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:21 pm

I'm just passing on the information that Mihir posted, and after looking at my own results, the trinket is superior to both 391 Hungerer and 378 Ancient Seed. The gain in DPS you get per Valor Point with the trinket is over double the DPS you get from any other item, including the Neck, which is pretty far up there itself.

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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby Serringa » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:48 am

Confirmed that LFR Vial of Shadows is still freakin' awesome on live.

The proc was 4-5% of my DPS.

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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby Konungr » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:51 am

I hate you. I had to contend with the rogue for my gear, but like 6 Agi items dropped. I got Underdweller's Spaulders, Molten Blood Footpads, and Signet of Grasping Mouths.

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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby Rawf » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:05 am

What's the go with T13 druid chest having 489 Agi but the Shadowbinder Chestguard has 509 Agi?

You can check this in game through the wowhead link thing.

EDIT:

ehh thats the VP chest, is it actually upgradeable?
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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby Dysheki » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:47 am

No leather heroic off-piece leggings = :cry:

SO MUCH EXPERTISE
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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:11 pm

Rawf wrote:What's the go with T13 druid chest having 489 Agi but the Shadowbinder Chestguard has 509 Agi?

You can check this in game through the wowhead link thing.

EDIT:

ehh thats the VP chest, is it actually upgradeable?

The slight differene in agility is due to the Tier chest having 3 sockets to the valor chest having 2. The Tier chest also has a 30 agi socket bonus to the valor chests 20 agility.

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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby Thunderhorn » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:46 pm

This is the EXACT list I was looking for, Thanks

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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby Alaenar » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:59 pm

Konungr wrote:BiS Gear List: Normal Dragon Soul/Valor (397/403)
Deep Earth Headpiece
Cameo of Terrible Memories (Valor)
Underdweller's Spaulders (Morchok)
Batwing Cloak (Valor)
Deep Earth Raiment
Bladeshadow Wristguards (Crafted)
Deep Earth Grips
Belt of Flayed Skin (Warlord Zon'ozz)
Deep Earth Legguards
Molten Blood Footpads (Spine of Deathwing)
Signet of Grasping Mouths (Hagara the Stormbinder)
Seal of Primordial Shadow (Any Boss Except Deathwing)
Vial of Shadows (Any Boss Except Deathwing)
Wrath of Unchaining (Spine of Deathwing)
Ripfang Relic (Valor)
Kiril, Fury of Beasts (Madness of Deathwing)

Link to BiS Set: http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items=77 ... 7271:77016
Unenchanted/gemmed/reforged, this set provides:
Mastery: 583
Crit: 1260
Haste: 1934
Hit: 813
Exp: 1225


There are some mistakes in this BiS list
Since %8 hit and 25-26 expertise is enough for you as kitty 1225 expertise is too much and 1934 haste is too low

Actually this is the BiS List i have made

397 Set ;
Head :Deep Earth Headpiece
Neck :Cameo of Terrible Memories (Valor) / Choker of Vanquished Lord (Ragnaros HC)*
Shoulder: Underdweller's Spaulders (Morchok)
Back: Drapefire Drape (Lord Ryolith HC)**
Chest :Deep Earth Raiment
Wrist: Bladeshadow Wristguards (Crafted)***
Hands: Deep Earth Grips
Waist: Belt of Flayed Skin (Warlord Zon'ozz) / Belt of Hidden Keys (Valor)****
Legs :Deep Earth Legguards
Foot: Molten Blood Footpads (Spine of Deathwing)
Ring 1: Signet of Grasping Mouths (Hagara the Stormbinder)
Ring 2: Seal of Primordial Shadow (Any Boss Except Deathwing)
Trinket 1: Starcather Compass (Any Boss Except Deathwing)
Trinket 2: Wrath of Unchaining (Spine of Deathwing)
Relic: Ripfang Relic (Valor)
Weapon: Kiril, Fury of Beasts (Madness of Deathwing)


Link to this set : http://tinyurl.com/d5bjdb8

With Enchants & Gems & Reforges stats are like this ;
Expertise rating 768 (25.58)
Haste rating 2016
Hit rating 976 (%8.13)


410 Set ;

410 set is basicly heroic versions of the items i mentioned above but;
We dont know if we can upgrade Valor Cloak and Valor Belt to heroic yet, if so they are BiS
If not Dreadfire Drape is still BiS as Cloak but Belt from heroic Zon'ozz replaces Valor Belt.
Same goes for necklace, if the Valor neck is upgradable its BiS
If not HC Ragnaros Neck remains as BiS.

Bracers, crafted ones are BiS with epic gems because you get +10 agility from crafted bracer and there is your best secondary stat: Haste.


Squeze as much epic gems as you can to your gear.
If you are capable to obtain heroic gear, save your epic gems for your BiS HC items.


My armory : http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/t ... nar/simple

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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby Rarge » Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:15 am

Alaenar wrote:There are some mistakes in this BiS list
Since %8 hit and 25-26 expertise is enough for you as kitty 1225 expertise is too much and 1934 haste is too low


Konungr's set doesn't include reforging.
By reforging out of expertise where ever possible Konungr's set leaves you with 768 expertise.

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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby Konungr » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:15 am

Alaenar wrote:and 1934 haste is too low


There is no such thing as "too low" of a stat such as haste, considering Haste isn't clearly better than any other stat. I personally like to have Hit/Exp Caps, Stack Mastery, and have an even balance of Crit and Haste.

Also, except for you using Starcather Compass as a BiS (Which by several people's tests it isn't better than Vial of Shadows), your list is exactly the same as mine, other than you listing choices like Neck and Belt. My list does not show the Heroic Firelands gear, even though better, because this is simply a list of gear available through Normal Dragon Soul and Valor Points, as some guilds will not go back and do old content.

Also, as was said previously, I did not include stats after reforging, since there are several different methods that are all optimal. One player will stack Mastery like myself, another will stack Haste. There is no point in trying to list out the values of the BiS set of gear with every possible method of reforging.
Alaenar wrote:410 set is basicly heroic versions of the items i mentioned above but;
We dont know if we can upgrade Valor Cloak and Valor Belt to heroic yet, if so they are BiS
If not Dreadfire Drape is still BiS as Cloak but Belt from heroic Zon'ozz replaces Valor Belt.
Same goes for necklace, if the Valor neck is upgradable its BiS
If not HC Ragnaros Neck remains as BiS.


The Zon'ozz belt is better than the Valor Belt, even at the 397 level.

Alaenar wrote:Bracers, crafted ones are BiS with epic gems because you get +10 agility from crafted bracer and there is your best secondary stat: Haste.


This is an inaccurate statement since Haste is not our Best stat, it is equal to Mastery and its power will depend on the fight mechanics and the players personal playstyle.

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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby shinryu » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:01 am

Kinda crap on blizz's part that there's no heroic neck or cape option from raiding in DS, so unless you did down H Rag (which none of us want to try more of) or grabbed H Rhyolith's cape, you're screwed since you're having to use less than optimal pieces...

Probably just gonna make some gold selling VP gear I think...

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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby peki » Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:55 am

no idea how 1900 haste is low
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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby Rarge » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:15 am

However I believe too much haste can be bad.

For instance when I was using a max haste build with my Herioc Hungerer and Matrix Restabilizer during hero when both trinkets procced it was impossible for me to not be energy capped which is a DPS loss, the extra haste I had from reforging would have been better placed in Mastery or Crit.

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Re: 397/403 BiS / Valor Priority

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:29 pm

For Firelands Haste was pulling ahead for some fights because of 4p T12. More energy during an extended Berserk was great. However as we start dropping 4p in favor of 2p + 2p haste falls back to about even with the other 3 secondary stats. Favoring a stat to fit your playstyle is just fine. However I would not recomend that you favor it to the exclusion of others. Like Konungr I perfer a little more Mastery, but I still keep both Crit and Haste above 1100 if I can.

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