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Draft 4.3 gear list

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Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby Alaron » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:44 pm

I was hoping to have this finished in time for 4.3, but due to, well, life, it wasn't. I won't be pushing this live on the blog until it's finished and hits WOWI, but I figured my loyal forum readers could use it. :)

http://fluiddruid.net/draft-4-3-gear-list/

(BTW, a search for "druid forums" on google turns up TFD at #5, #9, and #11, ahead of the druid forums on ArenaJunkies and Diablo 2. I <3 you guys...and that's the last time you'll see me abuse the number 3 that way.)

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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby Konungr » Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:06 pm

I have a couple amendments that I would like to pass into the light to be double checked.

Value of Underdweller Spaulders vs Tier Shoulders (My findings point to Off-set being a slight increase, especially over the other 4 Tier vs Offset combinations)
Value of Bladeshadow Wristguards (397) vs other 397 Bracers (My findings point to Crafted Bracers being BiS until Heroic Blackhorn)

How are you getting Raid Finder and Heroic Versions of Valor Gear: Helm (Nocturnal Gaze), Neck (Cameo of Terrible Memories), Belt (of Hidden Keys), Chest (Shadowbinder Chestguard), Boots (Rooftop Griptoes), Bracers (of Manifold Pockets), Gloves (Lightfinger Handwraps), Ring (Emergy Descent Loop), Cloak (Batwing), Relic (Ripfang)

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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby Qbear » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:04 pm

Yeah I forget where I was reading it; however, tangedyn linked a post on the eu forums by Mirih where he named shoulders as the go to off piece.

I assume since both of them are claiming it that Yawning agrees with it as well so that's what I've been telling people that have been asking me about off tier.

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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby shinryu » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:30 pm

Konungr wrote:I have a couple amendments that I would like to pass into the light to be double checked.

Value of Underdweller Spaulders vs Tier Shoulders (My findings point to Off-set being a slight increase, especially over the other 4 Tier vs Offset combinations)
Value of Bladeshadow Wristguards (397) vs other 397 Bracers (My findings point to Crafted Bracers being BiS until Heroic Blackhorn)

How are you getting Raid Finder and Heroic Versions of Valor Gear: Helm (Nocturnal Gaze), Neck (Cameo of Terrible Memories), Belt (of Hidden Keys), Chest (Shadowbinder Chestguard), Boots (Rooftop Griptoes), Bracers (of Manifold Pockets), Gloves (Lightfinger Handwraps), Ring (Emergy Descent Loop), Cloak (Batwing), Relic (Ripfang)

I'm guessing he probably got a compiled list from like Wowhead or something (as they exist from datamining, but not implemented live obviously), so it's easy to edit out.

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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby Yawning » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:05 pm

... though I think Starcatcher Compass ICD looks wrong, so I bumped it down a bit.


It really is that long if not longer.

[15:05:36] <Mihir> woot, won a starcatcher compass
[15:05:41] <Mihir> so can verify that in a bit
[17:10:30] <Mihir> starchaser procrate is sooo bad
[17:10:42] <Mihir> getting an average of ~120sec between procs
[17:11:25] <Mihir> shortest time sofar was 116sec
[17:11:35] <Mihir> out of 10 procs

I had something a lot shorter in SVN for a while but that's been fixed for some time, and both Mihir and Tangedyn used the updated value for deriving such things IIRC. Let me know if you have any questions.

Edit: I increased it to 115 sec in SVN (Also available as Mew-20111202). With a bit of luck hopefully I don't need to change anything for a while.
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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby Afje » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:52 am

Looks like the 397 ripfang relic is missing from the list.

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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby Alaron » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:55 pm

Okay, added locations/costs for everything. Should be 95% done now. I'll go back and add full explanations, but that's going into the final column. This should be good for most everything, though. I changed my mind, since I've gotten a bunch of emails about a list, I'll go ahead and push this to the blog.

Of course, Wowhead publishes a great list after I was mostly done with this one: check theirs out as well:
http://www.wowheadnews.com/blog=197992/ ... -up-in-4-3

@Konungr - thanks for the fixes, dropped all the extraneous VP items. I 'm not going to go into too much detail about sidegrades atm (I'm saving that for the full column), but I agree with you and I'll drop a note to that effect up front.

@Yawning - Why do I doubt you? :P I saw the note in SVN saying 50s but not the one where you fixed it. All I've got is a borrowed netbook atm so I'm not even messing with Eclipse. :)

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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby Terias » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:30 pm

Isn't heroic dreadfire drape better than the batwing cloak?

Gain 50 agility (with epic gems), lose 66 secondary stats.

I might just be confused on what the numbering system actually is.

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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby Leafkiller » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:42 pm

Terias wrote:Isn't heroic dreadfire drape better than the batwing cloak?

Gain 50 agility (with epic gems), lose 66 secondary stats.


Even without epic gems, the 391 Dreadfire is BiS.

Edit: as in you are correct, and the list should be modified...

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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby Rawf » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:33 pm

As far as H BiS goes, anyone got a whole setup figured out?

I've got a set with (using Kiril and Wrath of Unchaining, and assuming the neck, relic and leatherworking wrists cannot be upgraded to H)

(from gear + gems + enchants + reforging, no base, no multipliers, no buffs, using JC and LW)

7365 Agi

831 Exp // 50 over cap
961 Hit // exactly on cap

1501 Crit
2151 Haste
732 Mastery


Little bit worried it might be too skewed away from mastery because I haven't simmed it yet, will do it later. I also haven't tried getting a mastery or a balanced setup as of yet. Will do it when I get home later.

I would post a link to it but chardev isn't working for me so the best I can do would be a screenshot of the gear in wowreforge.
Last edited by Rawf on Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby Yawning » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:51 pm

Alaron wrote:@Yawning - Why do I doubt you? :P I saw the note in SVN saying 50s but not the one where you fixed it. All I've got is a borrowed netbook atm so I'm not even messing with Eclipse. :)


*grins* Well, till last night the ICDs on everything were guesses. Starcatcher compass is ever so slightly overvalued in the last batch of tests they did, but not by enough of a margin to significantly alter values.

Glad to hear you're coming home safe. Are you part of the Mew discussion group? If you're looking for something to do when you're idle that you can, you can think about what you want Mewtwo to look like. I attempted to kick off planning for it in a post, but haven't gotten much feedback.
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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby Leafkiller » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:50 am

Yawning wrote: Are you part of the Mew discussion group? If you're looking for something to do when you're idle that you can, you can think about what you want Mewtwo to look like. I attempted to kick off planning for it in a post, but haven't gotten much feedback.


I have been thinking about it. Feedback will be coming, trust me.

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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby Alaron » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:05 am

@Rawf - good point. I'm going back and reviewing things like gemming. I'll bump up the Drape to 1 and demote Batwing to 1A, since they are still relatively close. (I'm trying to due a tiering thing.)

@Yawning - Interested as well, but I won't be doing too much until January (family time woo).

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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby Rawf » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:20 am

Alaron wrote:@Rawf - good point. I'm going back and reviewing things like gemming. I'll bump up the Drape to 1 and demote Batwing to 1A, since they are still relatively close. (I'm trying to due a tiering thing.)


Thanks :D but yeah I think you meant @Terias.

Also, lol, all the gear setups for different stats are the same just reforged differently, well that makes things easy.
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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby peki » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:54 pm

rawfdawg, that crit rating looks very tasty, might see if i can drop some mastery atm for crit
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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby Facemauler » Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:06 am

You might want to check your Ripfang Relic link Al, you linked to the heroic one (by mistake I'm sure!!) :)
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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby Ptah » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:14 am

Hi,
Ranseur of Hatred (391) vs. Kiril, Fury of Beasts (390) - which one is stronger?
I tried to compare them in Rawr, SimC and Mew.
Rawr and SimC calculated Ranseur as dps gain (about 1000 DPS), Mew calculated Kiril as stronger (about 300DPS). I'm not sure what did I do wrong.. Which one is correct?

Thanks.

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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby Yawning » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:48 pm

Ptah wrote:I tried to compare them in Rawr, SimC and Mew.
Rawr and SimC calculated Ranseur as dps gain (about 1000 DPS), Mew calculated Kiril as stronger (about 300DPS). I'm not sure what did I do wrong.. Which one is correct?


Not SimulationCraft, unless you get the source, and fix it.
simc-430-2: Wrong internal cooldown, procs from crits only, grants crit rating instead of agility.
SVN: Procs from crits only, grats crit rating instead of agility.

Didn't look at how Rawr implements it because I don't care.

If you have the ability to compile SimulationCraft for yourself, the fixes are listed in http://code.google.com/p/simulationcraf ... il?id=1036

I should have caught that when I looked through their 4.3 feral related changes the first time, but I didn't. Mea culpa, though I suppose I wasn't looking very hard. The SimulationCraft developers are usually extremely responsive so they should fix it (or tell me if I'm wrong although that's rather unlikely) sooner rather than later.

PS: As a side note anything before SimulationCraft r10598 (Which includes the currently available snapshot simc-430-2) will give totally incorrect results with 4T13 by default as well, since the action lists don't use 4T13. Revisions after that use an identical action list to what's in Mew SVN by default.
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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby Ptah » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:47 pm

Thanks...

If I read between the lines correctly, Mew should be right, and the 390 Kiril is DPS gain in compare to 391 Ranseur, correct? ;)

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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby Yawning » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:03 pm

Ptah wrote:If I read between the lines correctly, Mew should be right, and the 390 Kiril is DPS gain in compare to 391 Ranseur, correct? ;)


Yep. If you are using your own builds of SimulationCraft they fixed it just now as well, otherwise you would need to wait till the next release. I love responsive developers.
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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby Viray » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:55 am

Maybe I missed this question, so here it goes:

Is the Fireland HC relic, Covenant of the Flame better than the Ripfang Relic? askmrrobot.com thinks that way, maxdps.com does too...
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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby Konungr » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:14 am

No, Covenant gives less agility and less secondary stats. AMR is retarded.

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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby Laurind » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:58 am

maybe you're looking at a Bear profile?
The 391 IS better for bear (as they simmed in TIB)

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Re: Draft 4.3 gear list

Postby Tinderhoof » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:44 pm

It's very close. While the upgraded relic from firelands does have less agility (I think 5 less) it doesn't have expertise which the RipFang does. Depending on the rest of your gear you may have to much expertise and the Firelands relic may end up being better. This usually won't happen until you get closer to BIS, or just have a huge mix of high expertise pieces. No matter which way you go, it will be so close that it likely won't matter at all.

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