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Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby soultakerro » Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:03 am

btw just won a wrath of unchaining from raid finder and from what i can tell the heroic version is best trinket right now i was wondering does the one from raidfinder work with one from normal raid? do they stack up?

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Zheny » Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:41 am

soultakerro wrote:btw just won a wrath of unchaining from raid finder and from what i can tell the heroic version is best trinket right now i was wondering does the one from raidfinder work with one from normal raid? do they stack up?


Grz, it's a great trinket, even the one from Raid Finder. Sadly you can't use two Wrath of Unchaining at the same time as they are Unique-Equipped.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby soultakerro » Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:47 am

ya i know they are unik equip but isnt it the same as heroic version and normal version of a trinket if i rememebr right thoes worked togheter

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:18 pm

soultakerro wrote:ya i know they are unik equip but isnt it the same as heroic version and normal version of a trinket if i rememebr right thoes worked togheter

The last time (and only time) a heroic version and a normal version were allowed to be equipped at the same time was "Death's Choice" from TOC. Starting with ICC on, you can not equip the normal and heroic versions of the same trinket.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby soultakerro » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:04 pm

ah ok,anway what about logs,i posted more there,and last q is really staff from dw better then the one from the yor boss

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:21 pm

soultakerro wrote:ah ok,anway what about logs,i posted more there,and last q is really staff from dw better then the one from the yor boss

Real busy at work today. Answer to your other question is yes the Proc weapon is much better then the weapon with secondary stats.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby soultakerro » Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:33 pm

thx i apriciate it all:)

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Paramount » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:37 pm

Hi all. Long time kitty, first time poster. I wanted to mention something that occured to me recently that I haven't seen discussed anywhere yet, so hear goes....

After reviewing my World of Logs data of the last couple raid nights, I noticed that none of the fights in DS require interrupts so we can spec out of Brutal Impact this tier. I've personally decided to go with the following:

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#0ZrbrfRzMdbfzMcu

I know it isn't really game breaking, but it honestly didn't occur to me until yesterday, and I've played feral for years. I can only imagine that a few others have overlooked this as well. Hope it helps!

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:56 pm

Paramount wrote:Hi all. Long time kitty, first time poster. I wanted to mention something that occured to me recently that I haven't seen discussed anywhere yet, so hear goes....

After reviewing my World of Logs data of the last couple raid nights, I noticed that none of the fights in DS require interrupts so we can spec out of Brutal Impact this tier. I've personally decided to go with the following:

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#0ZrbrfRzMdbfzMcu

I know it isn't really game breaking, but it honestly didn't occur to me until yesterday, and I've played feral for years. I can only imagine that a few others have overlooked this as well. Hope it helps!

Hey Paramount. Welcome to the community.

I would caution you that removing points from Fury Swips is not a good idea. Perserverence is good for some progression fights, but not at the cost of your dps. You can take a point back out of Perserverence or another point out of Furor (if you don't shapeshift during the fight).

You are correct that this tier Blizzard has moved away from the "Interrupt or Die" raid mechanic for this tier. So far the only place I have found that an interrupt is useful is on Heroic Zon'ozz. The Eyestalks that spawn during the "Black Phase" cause a huge amount of raid damage and can be interrupted. They don't have a cast bar, but when they start the animation of seeming to sit down if you skull bash the cast will not go off. To be honest we are still not the best class to do this, but we can still help.

So far this tier I have found myself using at least 3 different spec's. One which almost like yours (1 point in Furor and maxed Fury Swipes). This is for lots of magic damage fights like Yor'sahj and Ultraxion. For Zon'ozz I am taking the interrupt and putting 1 point in Perserverience. Lastly for Morchok I am using 0 in Perserverience and maxing out Thick Hide (I am a soaker). I am playing around with this one so I can try to keep as many points in Furor as possible because I am shifting ALL the time. I think I may post those in the strats forum when I get them more refined.

With the slight change suggested there is no issue with rolling with that spec all the time. I just depends what your job is in the raid. If its just DPS go for it.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Paramount » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:41 pm

Thank you for the welcome. There are a couple of reasons I decided upon the spec I did. The first of which being that my raid is fortunate to be comprised of exceptional DPS. It isn't uncommon for any one (or two...) of 3 of us to rank on any given fight, and the other two are always in the 90th percentile. However what our raid brings in damage we tend to lack in heals, thus the 3rd point in Perseverance.

I will consider moving a point from Furor into Fury Swipes. Due to the nature of Feral I am usually the first option to battle rez, and I make it a point to use my Tranquility and Innervates every pull, so I may shift upwards of 5 or 6 times in a given fight depending on length. I'll have to do some testing to find out if the extra energy offsets the roughly 1.3% damage increase I gain from Fury Swipes.

Speaking of testing, I took a trip up to the Argent Tournament Grounds to perform some testing regarding the 2pcT13 set bonus. My intent was to establish whether it would be optimal < 60% to FB at every given opportunity or rather if I should avoid clipping a rip that has TF and/or the benefit of Kiroptyric Sigil until it had ticked off the majority of it's duration. I have collected a fair amount of consistent data so far but I still have a few more data sets to obtain, as I'm attempting to find out the answer in several different scenarios given individual parameters, i.e. 1) With TF, 2) With KS, 3) With both, 4) With TF + Berserk, 5) With KS + Berserk, 6) With both + Berserk.
For each situation I'll have to adjust FB damage for each of two factors, level 80 target dummy armor level to level 88 raid boss armor level, and 4% physical damage provided by various other DPS. Finally, I'll need to examine AP coefficients for both abilities and establish if one will scale better than the other given full raid buffs.

It may all be for naught in the end. Ironically both methods seem to be suggesting less than a 0.3% increase or decrease. My initial observations mostly point to using whichever method is most comfortable to the individual as that will amount to the least mistakes. Only more tests will tell.

Ah theorycraft.... What a fickle mistress.
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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby deetoe » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:36 pm

Hi everyone, first time posting oO..
I'm farely new to feral dpsing. I went to wow reforge.com and its asking me to reforge for more mastery. Before the 3t12 i was reforging every extra crit i had to mastery, if i had mastery on the item i would reforge for haste. Once i got my 4t12 i favored mostly haste and my dps increased significantly. Whats your take on this? Should i follow reforge.com?

Here is my logs for ultraxion
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-h ... 990&e=6301
If you see anything wrong let mek now ;)

Same goes for armory.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/m ... too/simple

Thanks in advance for your advice.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Zheny » Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:54 am

deetoe wrote:Hi everyone, first time posting oO..
I'm farely new to feral dpsing. I went to wow reforge.com and its asking me to reforge for more mastery. Before the 3t12 i was reforging every extra crit i had to mastery, if i had mastery on the item i would reforge for haste. Once i got my 4t12 i favored mostly haste and my dps increased significantly. Whats your take on this? Should i follow reforge.com?

Here is my logs for ultraxion
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-h ... 990&e=6301
If you see anything wrong let mek now ;)

Same goes for armory.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/m ... too/simple

Thanks in advance for your advice.


If you are running 4t12, Haste > Mastery. When you get 2t13 + 2t12 both are very close.

Uptimes on SR, Rake and Rip seem pretty good.
You only used Tigers Fury 8 times tho =( . You should be able to use it at least 10 if not 11 times on that fight.
Not sure if you used the Mangle Glyph, if not, use it.

Try to get 2t13 asap, it's going to boost your DPS quite a bit. I only have my own log from heroic 10man but I had 2t13 last week and used FB 23 times. You had 13 FBites, so getting the 2t13 will also allow you to get many more FBites in.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Drutoslav » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:33 pm

Hey Guyz :>

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/f ... v/advanced
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/jmcqzicp ... 255&e=8663

Could you tell me what do you think about this? What could I do to improve my dps? o.0

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Paramount » Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:17 am

Drutoslav wrote:Hey Guyz :>

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/f ... v/advanced
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/jmcqzicp ... 255&e=8663

Could you tell me what do you think about this? What could I do to improve my dps? o.0

Not an awful lot to pick apart honestly (congrats on your WoL ranks), although I would point out a few things. With your 4pc it is beneficial to replace the Gyph of Bloodletting with the Glyph of Tiger's Fury. Also with your gear you should really try reforging for the hit and expertise caps. With regards to the other secondary stats, I notice you've prioritized crit>mastery>haste. All of those are very close in value and the argument is there for playstyle preference, but that is an order I have yet to see. Consider alternatives such as haste>crit>mastery (my preference), or haste=mastery>crit (which i've also seen many mentions for).

As far as the logs go, I noticed a few SR uptimes that could be improved but not much else You're prepotting, using TF almost the maximum times possible, and Berserking well. Overall your performance seems to be well above the average, although I believe you will see a bit of an increase after changing glyphs and reforging a bit differently.
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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby calbrin » Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:51 am

Hi there, long time reader but new to the fluid druid forums.

Have a few questions for the other feral druids out there.

Whats the go with berserk with 2 piece tier 13 ? should i be ferocious biting above 60% or shredding ? and below 60% should i again be ferocious biting or shredding hard out while berserk is active ?

Iv heard capping hit/exp ratting is still the preferred thing to do this patch, is this correct ?
As for haste/mastery iv been going with mastery over haste but iv read haste is better for multiple target fights ?

Here is my toon: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/f ... br%C3%ADn/
and a recent WoL: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1lckvuyawzrwg1it/

Anything i can improve ?

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby mangle » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:05 am

Hey guys, picking your brain about heroic logs again! :) Doing attempts on Heroic Yor'sahj 25m and my damage is not up to snuff.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... e/advanced

My attempts for the night: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-z1vqrnhqhfh1silp/

HoJ's logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-j ... 314&e=1542

Rogue and Ret pally stay on the boss and ignore globs. Everyone AOE's forgotten adds. Melee don't touch the Mana Voids. Pretty much our strat.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Vatore » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:10 am

Hey everyone, it will help if you guys can help me take a look at this character and see how i can improve dps ^^

armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/thaurissan/Vatore/simple

im a offtank for my guild so most of my gear and reforged into crit and mastery because i heard that the secondary stats are generally the same value... would like to know if that is the case.
also, i have tried replacing GoTF with GoBL but i find the rotation a little harder to manage with the extra six seconds to squeeze in. please let me know your thoughts on how to improve this character thanks!

will try and log out in my cat gear as often as possible hehe :X

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Sorcerer » Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:17 pm

Can someone else run mew with

Matrix normal vs Ancient Petrified Leaf?

No matter how I set mew, 360/600sec fight, full raid buffs, patchwerk fight, 2pT13 or 4pT13 I get HUGE dps increase with Leaf. I am in ~394 gear.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Leafkiller » Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:36 pm

Sorcerer wrote:Can someone else run mew with

Matrix normal vs Ancient Petrified Leaf?

No matter how I set mew, 360/600sec fight, full raid buffs, patchwerk fight, 2pT13 or 4pT13 I get HUGE dps increase with Leaf. I am in ~394 gear.


First the "oops" check. Did you adjust stats (-406 agility, + 383 mastery) in addition to changing the trinket check boxes when swapping from Matrix to APS?

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Sorcerer » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:52 pm

You got me here leaf with base stats... Idk why I assumed It'd change stats on box tick/unticking. Think I need to suggest that :P

However on patchwerk fight Leaf still comes ahead by 100-200dps than normal matrix, 360/600sec.
I guess it is quite simple that 4pT13 and TF ravage makes it quite strong.

Might be that I'd need to work a bit on reforges with matrix in mew.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Eärelas » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:55 pm

Hi there. I discovered this forum a few days ago and it looks like there's plenty of quality sharing posters !

I would like to join the queue for any tips regarding my gear or my DPS :

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... s/advanced

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/cbwd ... 438&e=3285 (only one boss)

Thanks in advance.
Last edited by Eärelas on Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:20 pm

Hey everyone. I got slowed down by the Holidays but I am going to be going over the back log today and should get to everyone by today. You can expect more regular updates going forward. Thanks for your patience.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:01 am

calbrin wrote:Hi there, long time reader but new to the fluid druid forums.

Have a few questions for the other feral druids out there.

Whats the go with berserk with 2 piece tier 13 ? should i be ferocious biting above 60% or shredding ? and below 60% should i again be ferocious biting or shredding hard out while berserk is active ?

Iv heard capping hit/exp ratting is still the preferred thing to do this patch, is this correct ?
As for haste/mastery iv been going with mastery over haste but iv read haste is better for multiple target fights ?

Here is my toon: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/f ... br%C3%ADn/
and a recent WoL: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1lckvuyawzrwg1it/

Anything i can improve ?

Hey Calbrin. Welcome to the community.

Going through your logs you don't have a lot to worry about. Your bleed up times are great and on the multi target fights you are keeping up times on different targets. Savage Roar uptime is also pretty good.

As you can tell by your high rankings getting the hit/exp caps are helpful but not required (I personally perfer them). You should still use FB during Berserk above 60%, just don't use it as often as with 4p T12. Just as long as you arn't losing Rip/Rake uptime. The haste question I am not sure of. Even now running Mew with my own gear the difference I see between heavy haste/heavy mastery is very small. Mew does have a multi add fight sim that you can run. I still don't think you will see a huge difference. Just roll with what you are comfortable with. Good luck next week!
-Tinder

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:25 pm

mangle wrote:Hey guys, picking your brain about heroic logs again! :) Doing attempts on Heroic Yor'sahj 25m and my damage is not up to snuff.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... e/advanced

My attempts for the night: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-z1vqrnhqhfh1silp/

HoJ's logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-j ... 314&e=1542

Rogue and Ret pally stay on the boss and ignore globs. Everyone AOE's forgotten adds. Melee don't touch the Mana Voids. Pretty much our strat.

Hey Mangle.

The target switching in this fight is kind of rough. Due to the nature of our aoe mechanic (nice burst, but leaves us energy starved) and the nerf we are often going to be behind a lot of other aoe beefy classes. Because you have so many attempts I chose to focus on the best attempt (#2).

The good:
-Every ooze and Yor'sahj was tagged with FFF.
-You are making use of Stampeed every target switch.
-Using Dash, Darkflight, and Stampeeding Roar every ooze to get there faster. I kind of hate that as a puppy man you can do that, but good job!
-Using Barkskin and SI to help your healers out.

The bad:
-Rake/Rip uptimes are kinda low.
-Rake/Rip are not being overlapped as well as they can be.

You are doing a lot of things right here so you shouldn't feel your dps isn't up to par. Looking at damage done to Yor'sahj you are about mid pack. On the two oozes you are either #2 or #3. The big reason you arn't seeing yourself at the top has everything to do with our aoe. If you get luck enough to have Berserk come off cooldown right when the adds spawn you will look a lot better.

I did have one question. It looks like about 2/3'rds of the way trough the fight all of your bleeds dropped off for a longer then usual time. This happened right after the second green ooze died and you had just hit TF. Was this because you were swipe spamming for a black phase?

Some suggestions to boost your dps a little.
1. Pay very close attention to timers. Know when the next ooze phase is going to start.
2. When your are about 5 seconds away from the ooze spawning and you having to run out refresh Rip.
3. Have the last thing you do before running out is refresh Rake. Use that combo point to refresh SR if it is going to run out soon.

This will help keep bleeds up on both targets. As soon as Yor'Sahj hits 60% this becomes a lot easier as you can use just 1 combo point and an FB to get a refresh before running out (do try to get more then 1 combo point if time allows).

For AOE situations don't just spam swipe. Still try and keep the bleeds rolling on the boss. Again this will become much easier after 60%. Use all of your OOC procs and extra energy you would have used for filler shreds for swipe. This will do less aoe damage overall but will keep you in better shape for picking back up on the boss when they are all dead. If you do get lucky enough to have berserk up for a black phase you should be able to get a lot of aoe out on that wave. Again just watch for the timers. If you know a black phase is going to come its ok to hold Berserk and TF a little to allow you to make full use of both. Don't hold it back on the "Chance" you will see a black phase, only do so if you know its going to happen (ie you see the ooze and know you aren't going to kill it).

Hope that helps.
-Tinder

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:38 pm

Vatore wrote:Hey everyone, it will help if you guys can help me take a look at this character and see how i can improve dps ^^

armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/thaurissan/Vatore/simple

im a offtank for my guild so most of my gear and reforged into crit and mastery because i heard that the secondary stats are generally the same value... would like to know if that is the case.
also, i have tried replacing GoTF with GoBL but i find the rotation a little harder to manage with the extra six seconds to squeeze in. please let me know your thoughts on how to improve this character thanks!

will try and log out in my cat gear as often as possible hehe :X

Hey Vatore. Welcome to the community

It's good you are using 2 orange gems in your gear so you can swap meta's. I would recomend to better optimize you should either buy a second relic to use when you are tanking and have the orange gem in the tanking one and a 40 agi gem in the kitty one, or buy the Valor ring and get the socket bonus with your second Orange gem in there (that is what I do so I can fill in for the MT when required).

Don't forget to enchant your boots. If you OT a lot use the run speed/agi enchant. It's not the best for dps (35 agi is), but you don't get the Feral Swiftness in Bear form.

I would also use a 20 agi/20 hit gem instead of stam like you have in your pants. 30 Stam won't make a huge difference, and is wasted when dpsing.

For your spec I would either drop a point out of Furor or Brutal impact to max out Primal Madness. Unless you are shifting all the time during a fight Furor isn't as importent, and we never have to interrupt anything this tier (save eye stalks in Heroic Zon'ozz but it isn't required).

If you have any logs you want me to look at feel free to post them up. Hope this helps.
-Tinder

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