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Advanced procs, trinkets, etc.

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Advanced procs, trinkets, etc.

Postby dale15 » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:42 pm

I have been playing feral dps since mid WOTLK. I am very familar with the feral dps play style, but am looking to pull just a little bit more dps out of my crappy gear. I have always let procs, trinks, etc. just pop as they go and just continue on with my normal dps, not paying any attention to them as they come and go, and popping TF and on use trinks on cd. I was hoping somebody could give me an example or two on how to better use procs, such as the matrix restabilizer, or an on use trink such as the ancient petrified seed.

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Re: Advanced procs, trinkets, etc.

Postby Rarge » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:27 pm

Any on use trinket with a cooldown that causes it to line up with TF should be used with TF. So that's trinkets like Ancient Purified Seed and Kiroptyric Sigil.

Proccing trinkets I don't pay much attention to outside of "oh it's ICD is over I will wait a second before applying Rip (if it's an AGI proc)"

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Re: Advanced procs, trinkets, etc.

Postby Floofles » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:17 pm

Just macro the seed to TF

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Re: Advanced procs, trinkets, etc.

Postby Mitty » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:32 pm

Spot on advice from floofles for most fights.

For Spine of Deathwing, don't use the macro, so you can pop Tiger's Fury whenever and still have the trinket available for the Burning Tendons.

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Re: Advanced procs, trinkets, etc.

Postby dale15 » Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:04 pm

Ok, most of what yall said I kinda figured to be the case. I do have one more question though. In alot of feral vids etc., I tend to see people that use addons to constantly show them their changes in AP, crit, and much less often, mastery. What I am trying to figure out is how this is of any use. The only way I can figure this to be any kind of use is on a big agi proc, such as the new weapon, and overriding your current RIP. Im not big into theory crafting, so im not sure if something like that would be a dps loss or not. Appreciate the patience in advance.

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Re: Advanced procs, trinkets, etc.

Postby Kalze » Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:28 pm

Basically there's a few scenarios when you want to re-apply Rake before it's duration is over; but only if rake has 9 seconds or less remaining.

-Mastery gain. Procs like the Matrix Restabalizer when you're reforged for it to proc mastery should be applied to Rake; let it apply to Rip once Rip needs to be refreshed.
-Damage gains. Tiger's Fury - Try to get into the mood of refreshing Rake with Tiger's Fury active, and ideally you should be able to refresh Rip during TF, though there's some times where you get unlucky and don't have this happening.
-AGI gains. Any AGI proc will increase the amount of damage the DoT does as the snapshot of the total amount of damage the DoT is expected to do (with ap modifiers, talents, debuffs, ect) is snapshotted when the DoT is cast.

Overall you'll only see a very minor DPS increase from any of these and the AGI proc items are few and far between. As others have said if you're running with Seed or Sigil macro it to TF for most fights, as you'll want to use it with it for the best damage output from the trinket.
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Re: Advanced procs, trinkets, etc.

Postby dale15 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:21 am

Kalze, that was the exact information i needed. Unfortuanetly, this also means im going to have to start digging into the all the math going on behind the scenes. Much appreciate the info., hopefully I can start making some contributions to the site later on down the line. Been a long time fan of the site for some time, but never actually had the need to post before (long time prot warrior). Any other scenarios yall can come up with would be of great influence, but my god, thanks for what yall have given so far.

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Re: Advanced procs, trinkets, etc.

Postby Rarge » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:40 am

Kalze wrote:-Damage gains. Tiger's Fury - Try to get into the mood of refreshing Rake with Tiger's Fury active, and ideally you should be able to refresh Rip during TF, though there's some times where you get unlucky and don't have this happening.


Note: It's only a DPS increase to refresh rake whilst TF is up if rake has <= 9 seconds left.

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Re: Advanced procs, trinkets, etc.

Postby Stenhaldi » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:51 am

That's "conventional wisdom" these days but in reality it depends on how long you will be attacking that particular target. Once you synchronize rake with TF, it remains synchronized in principle for the remainder of the fight (assuming you have neither glyph of TF nor 4-piece tier 12). If the fight were infinitely long, for example, it would be worth synchronizing them no matter the circumstance.

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Re: Advanced procs, trinkets, etc.

Postby Konungr » Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:36 am

Rarge wrote:
Kalze wrote:-Damage gains. Tiger's Fury - Try to get into the mood of refreshing Rake with Tiger's Fury active, and ideally you should be able to refresh Rip during TF, though there's some times where you get unlucky and don't have this happening.


Note: It's only a DPS increase to refresh rake whilst TF is up if rake has <= 9 seconds left.



Note: This was true prior to 4.2, now that the Direct Damage component of Rake is considered a Bleed and deals the same amount of damage as a regular tick, this is no longer completely accurate.

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Re: Advanced procs, trinkets, etc.

Postby Ptah » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:03 am

Konungr wrote:Note: This was true prior to 4.2, now that the Direct Damage component of Rake is considered a Bleed and deals the same amount of damage as a regular tick, this is no longer completely accurate.

Hi, what is the story now? Is it more, or less then 9s to by dps increase?
Thanks...

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Re: Advanced procs, trinkets, etc.

Postby Konungr » Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:44 pm

More

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Re: Advanced procs, trinkets, etc.

Postby Leafkiller » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:48 pm

Konungr wrote:More


Preliminary testing in Mew suggests this is only the case when using an on-sue trinket such as Kiroptyric where you can line up the procs with TF.

I have posted some new Rake logic for testing in Mew, along with a discussion of the tests I ran on the Mew discussion forum here: https://groups.google.com/group/mew-wow ... f5ebbf477#

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Re: Advanced procs, trinkets, etc.

Postby Konungr » Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:05 pm

Ah ok. I haven't used Ovale or the script in a few weeks but I do remember back in Firelands it would suggest refreshing Rake as soon as TF was up regardless of its duration.

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Re: Advanced procs, trinkets, etc.

Postby Leafkiller » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:37 pm

Konungr wrote:Ah ok. I haven't used Ovale or the script in a few weeks but I do remember back in Firelands it would suggest refreshing Rake as soon as TF was up regardless of its duration.


Ovale uses an 8.9 second window on refreshing Rake (this has not changed in a long time). Doing anything else would be problematic right now as there is no current way in Ovale to test if a Rake was cast during TF and if I removed that conditional it might ask you to refresh Rake multiple times during TF.

What caught my attention was your comment about the Rake change. I pulled up the latest version of Mew, imported my toon and found it did make a dps change, but then tested with the Mihir 410 profile and did not see an appreciable dps change. That was when I realized it was because I had the Kiroptyric equipped and this was a case of the refresh being worth a lot more than just the TF buff.

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Re: Advanced procs, trinkets, etc.

Postby Konungr » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:27 pm

Oh well, I can't be wrong about everything i suppose.

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Re: Advanced procs, trinkets, etc.

Postby Leafkiller » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:56 pm

Konungr wrote:Oh well, I can't be wrong about everything i suppose.


Apparently not, which is why I tested your assertion. Since I rely on simulating things in Mew, I am only as right or wrong as the Mew simulation and the quality of the simulation script (which is a fair amount to go wrong if you think about it)...

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Re: Advanced procs, trinkets, etc.

Postby Konungr » Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:02 pm

Leafkiller wrote:
Konungr wrote:Oh well, I can't be wrong about everything i suppose.


Apparently not, which is why I tested your assertion. Since I rely on simulating things in Mew, I am only as right or wrong as the Mew simulation and the quality of the simulation script (which is a fair amount to go wrong if you think about it)...



That's why I let you and yawning work on the scripts, I'll just use what I'm given. I'm fairly confident in my abilities, but I don't know jack about code or scripts, at least not those kind.

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Re: Advanced procs, trinkets, etc.

Postby BoldTM » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:39 pm

Missed this, was looking at MEW and saw your post Leaf. So we are saying that refresh RAKE regardless of its duration if TF is up? This is true of you have a on use effect that are aligned with TF?

Code: Select all
Here is the existing Rake logic:
if (timeToDie >= 8.5 && isTigersFuryUp && !status.isRakeTFed() &&
rakeRemaining < 9.0)
                return Action.RAKE;
if (timeToDie >= 8.5 && (!isRakeUp || rakeRemaining < 3.0) &&
(isBerserkUp || rakeRemaining - 0.8 <= tigersFuryCD || energy >= 71))
                return Action.RAKE;
The new Rake logic:
if (timeToDie >= 8.5 && isTigersFuryUp && !status.isRakeTFed())
                return Action.RAKE;

if (timeToDie >= 8.5 && (!isRakeUp || rakeRemaining < 3.0) &&
(isBerserkUp || rakeRemaining < tigersFuryCD || energy >= 71))
                return Action.RAKE;

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Re: Advanced procs, trinkets, etc.

Postby Leafkiller » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:02 am

Pretty much - if you you are using one of the on-use trinkets and Rake was not cast during TF. then it is a dps up to refresh rake regardless of how long it has been up. It is a wash otherwise - so the 9 second rule works just fine.

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