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Spine of Deathwing

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Spine of Deathwing

Postby Qbear » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:48 pm

Please keep all discussion of the 10/25m LFR, Norm, and Heroic difficulties to the Spine of Deathwing encounter limited to this thread only.

Thank you.

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby Stella » Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:15 pm

I typically raid with 10m and on this fight my dps is incredibly low it goes from 40k on fights like Zon'ozz to not even 30k on spine. Its beginning to be really frustrating for me. I have looked at the video you posted I'm fairly certain my rotation is solid and here is a link to my gear if that will help http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... %A5/simple . Any pointers you could give to help maximize my dps on fights like this where there is so much target switching and movement would be incredibly helpful. Thank you!

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby Qbear » Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:27 pm

Just keep in mind without combat logs I could be off with the advice I give you since I can't see what your actually doing in the fight. Your gear looks good for the items you have; however, keep in mind going from a 378 weap to 391 is ~2k dps increase.

The reason I post videos is for you all but more importantly for myself. Since these fights are knew its going to take time finding out all the little things to maximize dps. When dps the Hideous Amaigamation add you know at 9 stacks you'll be switching to bloods. You can try to time Tiger's Fury for some free AoE that wouldn't lead to pushing the Amaigamation too early.

Also keep in mind when reforging there is no set way to do it correctly and no matter which route you take your dps will only move slightly either up or down; however, I've always been a firm believer on fights where you can use swipe often enough and fights with high target switching that hit/exp capping is beneficial. (Please don't take that as you better do it or your dps will suffer massively because that's not true)

I know its frustrating to pull low numbers on a fight when your usually king of the raid but remember normal are there for you to learn mechanics, timing, and the priority of your abilities to better prepare yourself for heroics.

Hope that helps any take care.

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby Terias » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:20 am

I don't know about anyone elses raid, but there are lots of points on this fight where dps just sit around doing nothing on normal.

My raids dps isn't that great and we 3 healed this part, yet we were still waiting around for corrupted bloods to spawn. It wasn't until the 3rd spine that we were actually playing catch up (more bloods were up than we could use).

I'm sure you could pad meters in a lot of places, but on normal I don't see any reason to unless you just have to rank.

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby Toro » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:52 am

I noticed this in the 4.3 gearing help thread, but figured I'd put what my guild does for it in the strat thread:

"time between tendons is about 2:30, just longer than the berserk CD" (Not an exact quote, typed it up having just read it)

Based on use of 3 and 5 minute CDs, for tendons use personal CDs on the first, HeroLust on the second, and the third all of the personal CDs should be back up, so use 'em.
It's 106 mile to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, a half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses... hit it!

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby Laurind » Mon Dec 26, 2011 3:13 pm

Qbear, I think you know it by now, but just saw your video on youtube, and the time the Amalgamation gained so many stacks at once was not a bug...
When bloods die, they leave their body on the ground, and you can move the Amalgamation over there to make him gain stacks, its not "dying close" to the add but getting him to "absorb" the corpses from the ground

Hope this helps someone, a little late watching the prorgess from many guilds but... Maybe someone starting to tank this fight can use this

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby exkape » Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:24 am

so we just started working on spine. fuck the dps burst is ridiculous.
so we are using the setup 2 tanks, 3 heals 5 dps, and on the tendons with 12mill hp.
was wondering if its worth reforging to haste for the burn from mastery.
also, found that (cause atm we are getting 3 of the tendons before the armour falls off) that i can use beserk 2 times on the 1st one (or at beginning of 1st one and beginning of 2nd tendon)

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby Laurind » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:11 am

There is really no need for 2 tanks in there... the only thing that hits hard is the Amalgamation with high stacks... but if you can time it right, it's no more than maybe 5 or 10 seconds of high DMG. Even bloods hitting a healer its no big deal...

I suggest killing bloods and not even move the Amalg, so all corpses stay near the amalg without it hitting too much, and when the HP is low enough, dance with the Amalg to soak all dead bloods, and burn the amalg (with no CDs).

Tell all your DPS NOT to use DPS CDs to burn the "trash", and save them for the 1st tendon. On 2nd tendon, with no DPS CDs, burn heroism, and on the 3rd one all CDs should be up... and add up potions if you are falling short on that last one...


Edit: oh, that CDs and hero seems I stole it from Toro, didn't remember where I took it from :$

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby adianar » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:03 pm

Similarly, our 10 man has 1 Warr tank, 3 heals and rest DPS. We're 1 shotting it now regularly with a 1) No cooldown/trinket burn, 2) trinket/cooldown only burn, 3) Heroism burn to help the healers too.

Same concept though. Only real timing is not killing the bloods until you have the amalgamation down low enough as the tank will pick up more than he can ever count when roaming to add stacks to 9. Very straight forward once you get the timing right. Also, in an ease of completion, either have your corruption stalk dps "not kill the corruption" when breaking the spell cast or break it and have the group ready to roll over. A second amalgamation up starts picking up stacks faster than your targetted one which screws up your timing of the kill, nuclear blast, etc.

Finally, we hold the amalgamation kill until after the corruption stalk cast so that it doesn't coincide during the tendon burn. Inevitably, its your best dps and hoses up your tendon burns.

Adi

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby Leafkiller » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:19 pm

adianar wrote:Only real timing is not killing the bloods until you have the amalgamation down low enough as the tank will pick up more than he can ever count when roaming to add stacks to 9.


Just kill the bloods off to the side of the Amalgamation and only drag him over after 9 adds are dead. Holding off on killing the bloods slows down the fight and stacking them on the Amalgamation while the bloods are being burned down increases the Amalgamations dps and puts more strain on your healers.

Put another way, the tank should not be roaming around until the Amalgamation is already low and there are 9 stacks ready. Now if only the LFR tanks would get a clue and stop gaining a 9 stack while the Amalgamation still have over 60% health...

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby Laurind » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:38 pm

the only Amalgamation that you have to wait for bloods to spawn is the first... after that there are always corpses all around the floor, tank can take him to absorb them.
Tank can just taunt the bloods, few times they get just under the Amalgamation (just make sure tank doesn't move an inch), and 1 or 2 stacks its not that much of dmg. I almost kill them on my own by swipe/thrash/glyphed maul

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby exkape » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:41 pm

no, heroic the adds spawn alot faster, eventually it will overrun and just make it impossible to keep the tanks up.
we have seen a few videos (angered in particular) where they have the 5 dps and blow all cds (bar BL) and get it down to roughly 40-35%
and looking at alot of logs, alot of guilds use it at the end

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby Laurind » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:34 am

my bad, didn't notice it was Heroic, can't talk about that

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby Sorcerer » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:50 pm

Speaking of HC spine tendoms and avarage output and best rotation with external mangle/FF

Assuming 23sec / 1.5sec GCD = 15 (15,3) GCD available for DPS (14 if FF)

[Step] (Time Left) Ability

Pre tendom -> Get roar up + charge corruption/ooze for !ravage
[1] (23) Shred
[2] (21,5) Ravage
[3] (20) Shred
[4] (18,5) TF or TF+Zerk ->
[5] (17) Rake (total 6 ticks) [17sec left during application or 19.5 if no FF]
[6] (15,5) Ravage
[7] (14) Rip 6 ticks 100%, 7 ticks possible
[8] Shred + Bite till finish

Or other possible scenario that looks to me like a DPS gain on paper would be to Rip at step (6) if 4 combo points present as it would be STILL dps gain even though it ticks for less but we gain 1 extra tick.
It might look even better if you don't have to FF and 4CP rip would move to step (5), where 4CP rip could tick 8 times, unlikely 9??? times?

I am still trying to do some weird rotation where we don't FF but start with TF rake shred ravage RIP asap making rip likely tick 9 maybe 10 times...
Last edited by Sorcerer on Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:21 pm

I think you forgot a REALLY importent piece. With out Mangle bleeds and shred are doing WAY less damage.

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby Stenhaldi » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:42 pm

Probably has a rogue opening with glyphed hemorrhage anyway.

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:03 pm

It's not a good idea to assume that everyone is going to have that option. Or that the Rogue/Arms Warrior will have beaten you to the target and have Hemo/<insert Arms ablity> up on the tendon before you start your list.

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby Terias » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:28 pm

nm
Last edited by Terias on Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby exkape » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:41 pm

atm, we have a war apply the +30% bleeds, but i'm generally using the vp trinket, beserking and racial beserk for the first burn tendon and getting around 1.1mill damage into it, then for the 2nd only getting something like another ~600k.

looking around as well, this is what alot of guilds are doing with ferals.

"1 tank : me (prot pally)
3 healers : disc using smite / pally / druid
6 dps : combat rogue/sp(legendary)/arcane mage(legendary)/demonoly warlock(legendary)/fury/feral druid (offtanking during P3 and sometimes in P2)"

source: http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... 26#p702634

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby Sorcerer » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:08 pm

All I would like is help to figure out best possible scenario DPS since IF you don't have that pleasure to have someone else FF / Mangle for you, max DPS rotation is pretty straight forward.

Options enable when you have much shorter lineup on RIP and question whether or not it is worth to 4CP RIP 1 global faster considering tick chances or do 5CP since RIP can roll for more than 16sec with 4pT13.

Also, glyph of bloodletting is not worth on this fight. You will always refresh or cast RIP only once in this fight per tendom.

I am thinkin about savage roar in place since no other option...

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:15 pm

A 4 point Rip lasts the same amount of time as a 5 point Rip. However it will do a lot less damage. Never do a 4 point Rip on anything in this fight.

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby Sorcerer » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:26 pm

It does last same amount of time but a 5CP rip won't tick as many times as 4CP rip put 1 global earlier or considering other step by step skill usage. That is the case. Remember we are talking about tiny 23sec spine heroic burst window.

I'd say it all comes to 3 scenarios, all with external bleed + FF. Which comes out on top? Don't have the answer yet.

1) TF right away to get Rip asap so it rolls longer
2) do standard and get 4CP rip
3) do standard and get 5CP rip 1 GCD later than scenario above

I am gonna sit on blank sheet of paper and do some math myself. Yes I suck at mew scripting.

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby exkape » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:26 am

Sorcerer wrote:It does last same amount of time but a 5CP rip won't tick as many times as 4CP rip put 1 global earlier or considering other step by step skill usage. That is the case. Remember we are talking about tiny 23sec spine heroic burst window.

I'd say it all comes to 3 scenarios, all with external bleed + FF. Which comes out on top? Don't have the answer yet.

1) TF right away to get Rip asap so it rolls longer
2) do standard and get 4CP rip
3) do standard and get 5CP rip 1 GCD later than scenario above

I am gonna sit on blank sheet of paper and do some math myself. Yes I suck at mew scripting.


5 cp rip doesnt tick more, it does more damage..... thats simple shit there.
if you are doing it right, you should have beserking up for every 2nd tendon, in which you should use tf+beserking before (if you have the 4t13 piece) to get the ravage. unfortunately i dont have the 4t13, so im using 2t13 and 2t12 for the 10% fire dot, noticed it helps a fair bit

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby Sorcerer » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:22 am

exkape wrote:5 cp rip doesnt tick more, it does more damage..... thats simple shit there


Virtually 4CP rip does tick more than 5CP if 5CP rip won't have enough time for all ticks. Simple shit there.

Anyway I had a mistake on my sheet regarding postponing ability queue due to TF triggering GCD but its not that case, I was mindblown but my question is still standing.

Ill get some sleep and look at possible scenarios on paper, couse becouse of so small DPS window from a really brief calc, 4CP rip 1 GCD sooner might be a DPS gain over 5CP GCD later and chance to tick 2 times more.
Going for another scenario, I have yet to do the math but opener Ravage + Shred + TF Rip if 4CP ( at 20sec left on burn) might be also a DPS gain as long as you dont energy starve later, ei during berserk.

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Re: Spine of Deathwing

Postby Stenhaldi » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:20 am

Sorcerer wrote:Assuming 23sec / 1.5sec GCD = 15 (15,3) GCD available for DPS (14 if FF)

Some corrections
1) cat form abilities have a 1 second GCD
2) the tendon is exposed for 20 seconds (it's not targetable for the first 3 seconds of the cast)

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