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Madness of Deathwing

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Leafkiller » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:20 pm

We got our first 25 man kill on Madness last night (our previous two kills being on 10 man) and I thought I would share some tips and tricks we used on the fight.

The order of the platforms is raid comp dependent and with 25 people in the raid, raid cooldowns are easier to come by. We went Ysera, Nozdormu, Alexstrasza and then Kalecgos on 25 man vs. Ysera, Alexstrasza, Nozdormu, and Kalecgos on 10 man. We went with two disc priests so we could PW:B on platforms 3 and 4. The dps requirements seem tougher on 25 man, which is why we swapped the order so we only had to worry about Blistering Tentacles on platform 4.

Since this fight is longer than 10 minutes we are using hero on the first platform as soon as the Mutated Corruption had spawned. While not strictly needed, there was no reason not to do this.

DPS on the first two platforms is pretty easy since you have all of the DPs buffs intact. So we sent one DPS over to Kalecgos' platform to whittle down the tentacle ahead of time. This is safe to do until Cataclysm starts up, so the DPS had just under 2 minutes each time to work on the (wing) tentacle before returning to the raid. He was able to knock off about 10% of the Tentacle's health doing this. He stayed with the raid on platforms 3 and 4. This gave us a buffer of about 8 extra seconds on Kalecgos' platform, which was a significant help in getting us through that before Cataclysm finished. In 10 man, I am guessing that you could send one person over to Kalecgos's platform while working on Ysera's platform (the first one). With heroism and all the buffs, missing one person there should not be an issue. Since the relative dps of a single player on 10 man is more than double that of a player on 25 man, that should be enough to get the 10% start on Kalecgos.

On phase two, I had the tanks do the following to pick up the Elementium Terrors (the large adds). We had the healers stack on the prot warrior who did an AOE grab on the adds (he was standing in Nozdormu's zone). I gave the offtank, a feral druid, this macro to use:
Code: Select all
/tar Elementium Terror
/cast Growl(Bear Form)
/cast Faerie Fire (Feral)(Feral)
/script SetRaidTarget("target",8);

This protected the healers from getting hit and made it simple for the tanks to get the adds and have one of the adds instantly marked for the dps.

The final piece of the puzzle for us was proper control of dps/healing in Phase 2. There is a tendency to think of Phase 2 as strictly a burn phase, but a key element is healing, especially when Deathwing drops to 10% and then 5% health and his AOE damage increases significantly. What we did to manage this phase was to stop dps at about 12% (with DoTs still ticking) before the second set of adds spawned. Then we hit heroism as soon as we finished the second add phase and burned him from 11/12% down ignoring the third set of adds who had just spawned when he died. On previous attempts we had used hero earlier and gotten Deathwing to about 7% before the second set of adds spawned and simply could not keep the raid alive through a kill. At some point our dps will be high enough to kill him before the second set of adds start impacting the raid, but we are not there yet, but we do have enough raid dps that we had to call a hard stop 5-10 seconds before the second set of adds had spawned. Another benefit of this approach was having heroism active through to the end of the fight for the healers. I believe we had 24 people standing at the end, with only two deaths during the course of the kill.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby adianar » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:06 pm

10 man regular..
Is anyone 1 tanking this fight? We keep getting to single digit percent and wiping to various things in this method. We have 3 heals and rest dps. Seems the add stack on the final burn phase is tolerable as long as the adds are in the yellow circle on the floor and dps is focused on them. Also seems most folks are 2 tankign this and it seems we're making it harder than it should be.

Adi

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Laurind » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:50 pm

If you have enough DPS to take down the "impale tentacle" (can't remember it's name) before 2nd Impale, you could do it with 1 tank.
For that you would need to ping-pong taunt last phase big adds (name escaped from me again) because of the nasty debuff (hits like a truck).

OR you could go hybrid on this... and take 1 Impale, and 1 big add on last phase. It's like 40 tanking seconds on a 15 minutes fight... might be worth it...
For CDs on Impale, use Dream on first, FR+Barkskin (plus the 20% HP from the buffs) on 2nd, SI on 3rd, BS+FR (4p bonus? better) and maybe some outside CD for the last one. (check your raid to see if you're CDs come back OK)
When many tetanus stacks, dream, or SI, Sharpnel won't kill you if you go bear.


If you're reforged to crit+exp+mastery you're golden (don't even need to change enchants)

EDIT: Here some tips better written :P http://www.restokin.com/2011/12/bearcat-madness/
Last edited by Laurind on Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Konungr » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:31 pm

For the last 3 weeks, I have gone HeroCatBear for this fight (One of our MTs was gone for the holidays) and we have 2 Healed it. As a HeroCatBear, I eat the Impale on the First, Second, and Fourth platforms first, Third as well if I can get an external CD, and immediately go Cat and DPS. With the added DPS of a 1/2 Tank and the 1 Healer that went DPS, we have plenty of DPS to kill the Corrupted before the second Impale and we down this in extraordinary time.

As soon as Deathwing slumps forward, we get some DoT's rolling on Deathwing, kill the adds that come out, using Dream/CDs to handle the Tetnus and Shrapnel, and as soon as the first set are dead, use HeroLustWarp, the DPS should be enough to kill him before the second set of big adds come out if y'all don't switch to the 2nd wave of little guys.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Laurind » Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:13 pm

I'd say 3/4 tank, it really helps, I ended 4th on dmg done on our first kill.
We killed 2 sets of adds on last phase, 3 healers.

I don't like using Herosim on first platform, I prefer to save it if we are a bit behind on DPS for cataclysm on the last platform, and not risk a 10 minutes wipe but, maybe if I send top dps to start working on last platform, and pop heroism, it can help...

I never understood how that work.... all people on 1 platform, send someone to another platform and start working on the claw, and get back for catcalysm? when you get there, you have less HP to go?

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Konungr » Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:22 pm

Laurind wrote:I'd say 3/4 tank, it really helps, I ended 4th on dmg done on our first kill.
We killed 2 sets of adds on last phase, 3 healers.

I don't like using Herosim on first platform, I prefer to save it if we are a bit behind on DPS for cataclysm on the last platform, and not risk a 10 minutes wipe but, maybe if I send top dps to start working on last platform, and pop heroism, it can help...

I never understood how that work.... all people on 1 platform, send someone to another platform and start working on the claw, and get back for catcalysm? when you get there, you have less HP to go?



If you aren't on the platform being attacked, you take massive damage.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Laurind » Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:07 pm

Konungr wrote:
Laurind wrote:I'd say 3/4 tank, it really helps, I ended 4th on dmg done on our first kill.
We killed 2 sets of adds on last phase, 3 healers.

I don't like using Herosim on first platform, I prefer to save it if we are a bit behind on DPS for cataclysm on the last platform, and not risk a 10 minutes wipe but, maybe if I send top dps to start working on last platform, and pop heroism, it can help...

I never understood how that work.... all people on 1 platform, send someone to another platform and start working on the claw, and get back for catcalysm? when you get there, you have less HP to go?



If you aren't on the platform being attacked, you take massive damage.



Leafkiller wrote:DPS on the first two platforms is pretty easy since you have all of the DPs buffs intact. So we sent one DPS over to Kalecgos' platform to whittle down the tentacle ahead of time. This is safe to do until Cataclysm starts up, so the DPS had just under 2 minutes each time to work on the (wing) tentacle before returning to the raid. He was able to knock off about 10% of the Tentacle's health doing this.


Am I not understanding something?

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Konungr » Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:27 pm

Maybe I didn't understand it fully. I usually hop off the platform when the tentacle has around 15% health, to start ramp up on the new tentacle before the corruption comes out. The one time I left the platform a little early, I started taking massive damage and almost killed myself, didn't know it was only because of the Cataclysm. Either way, unless your raid is underperforming or severly undergeared, you shouldn't have any problems finishing any of the platforms before Cataclysm ends, even if you are 2 Tanking and 3 Healing.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Stenhaldi » Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:30 pm

Konungr wrote:If you aren't on the platform being attacked, you take massive damage.

This isn't specifically true. You only take the usual raidwide damage from burning blood / blistering heat. If you cross platforms when the limb tentacle is at low health then you'll die quickly to burning blood for lack of healing.

Laurind wrote:If you have enough DPS to take down the "impale tentacle" (can't remember it's name) before 2nd Impale, you could do it with 1 tank.
For that you would need to ping-pong taunt last phase big adds (name escaped from me again) because of the nasty debuff (hits like a truck).

OR you could go hybrid on this... and take 1 Impale, and 1 big add on last phase. It's like 40 tanking seconds on a 15 minutes fight... might be worth it...
For CDs on Impale, use Dream on first, FR+Barkskin (plus the 20% HP from the buffs) on 2nd, SI on 3rd, BS+FR (4p bonus? better) and maybe some outside CD for the last one. (check your raid to see if you're CDs come back OK)
When many tetanus stacks, dream, or SI, Sharpnel won't kill you if you go bear.

Another option to 1-tank is to pull all melee (including tanks) off the mutated corruption tentacle before the second impale cast and just let the ranged finish it off. It will start to kill the nearby dragon aspect but this takes ~20 seconds.

Edit: actually I don't think this works - only tried it in LFR but it seems to cast impale on someone anyway.
Last edited by Stenhaldi on Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Laurind » Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:39 pm

Stenhaldi wrote:
Konungr wrote:If you aren't on the platform being attacked, you take massive damage.

This isn't specifically true. You only take the usual raidwide damage from burning blood / blistering heat. If you cross platforms when the limb tentacle is at low health then you'll die quickly to burning blood for lack of healing.

so, make the dps run back when the bloods appear, am I right?


Stenhaldi wrote:
Laurind wrote:If you have enough DPS to take down the "impale tentacle" (can't remember it's name) before 2nd Impale, you could do it with 1 tank.
For that you would need to ping-pong taunt last phase big adds (name escaped from me again) because of the nasty debuff (hits like a truck).

OR you could go hybrid on this... and take 1 Impale, and 1 big add on last phase. It's like 40 tanking seconds on a 15 minutes fight... might be worth it...
For CDs on Impale, use Dream on first, FR+Barkskin (plus the 20% HP from the buffs) on 2nd, SI on 3rd, BS+FR (4p bonus? better) and maybe some outside CD for the last one. (check your raid to see if you're CDs come back OK)
When many tetanus stacks, dream, or SI, Sharpnel won't kill you if you go bear.

Another option to 1-tank is to pull all melee (including tanks) off the mutated corruption tentacle before the second impale cast and just let the ranged finish it off. It will start to kill the nearby dragon aspect but this takes ~20 seconds.


Nice tip on 2nd impale. but... how do you handle 10 stacks of Tetanus without dying?

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Konungr » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:18 pm

Laurind wrote:Nice tip on 2nd impale. but... how do you handle 10 stacks of Tetanus without dying?


Dream & CDs.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby ellorien » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:50 am

I've only been doing this fight in LFR, and have a question regarding DPS.

Is it better dps to use Berserk every time it's up, regardless of the target at the time, or is it better to save it for AOEing the bloods and miss having it up on some platforms?

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Foxlore » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:02 am

I use it at the start and pretty close to on cooldown throughout. As long as you aren't activating it at a time where you will waste any of it, you're good to go.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Konungr » Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:03 pm

I use it at the start for the main tentacle and the first half of the mutated corruption, then on the main tentacle on the next 3 platforms after the mutated corruption and Elementium Bolt are dead. Saving it for AoE is kinda pointless as long as your raid doesn't suck because they should all die fairly quickly.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Laurind » Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:15 pm

You're not saving it for the "single target" tentecles? I was trying to do it, but I loose too many uptime I think

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Konungr » Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:21 pm

Laurind wrote:You're not saving it for the "single target" tentecles? I was trying to do it, but I loose too many uptime I think


No, I simply change my targets and throw up a rake on whatever has the current highest health when I have the energy. The rarely stay up for more than 5-6 seconds so holding Berserk for it is a waste.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Alaron » Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:29 pm

Re LFR: this may sound counterintuitive, but I find the best strategy is to hard stop my DPS and start spamming chat when the last tentacle gets close to 70%, as the only wipes I've had in LFR are to idiots who push the tentacle past 40% and spawn the next set of blistering tentacles before the first set is killed.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby ellorien » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:45 am

Oh, I see. Thanks very much for all the input. I had previously tried saving it for the first AOE as the sudden jump in DPS impressed me, but it kind of seemed to fade off after that. :) I'll just use it on CD then.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Paramount » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:13 pm

Re: Berserk Usage

Ideally you should look over your logs to get an idea of the average/estimated/expected length of time it takes your guild to complete a Madness kill and plan your Berserk accordingly.

~ If you anticipate > 13 minutes then you should be able to Berserk 5 times. If this is the case then use it immediately on the pull and then continue to use on CD throughout the fight.
~ If you anticipate < 13 minutes you can Berserk 4 times (technically you can squeeze a portion of a 5th one anywhere north of 12 minutes but that would likely result in island switching while berserk is active rendering the idea impractical while resulting in a net loss. For all intents and purposes a smart kitty is wise to build a little wiggle room into his plans... even 13 minutes wouldn't allow enough time for 5 full berserks should you fail to use it within ~7 seconds of it's availability. Side-tracked-rambling ending now...). If you expect to be on the higher end of that spectrum lean toward using it early and often since any deaths and/or disconnects (etc. RNG etc.) within your raid group could prolong the fight long enough to allow a 5th use. However consistent kills below the 11 minute mark would lend themselves toward more relaxed cooldown spacing allowing you to be slightly more selective.

Having said that, my raid regularly clears Madness before I even sniff a 5th Berserk. The idea that I've adapted is:

1st Platform - Right on the pull with prepots and trinkets proccing. Yes, I prepot Madness. Short of glorified epeen waving reasons to continue playing WoW are quickly becoming scarce.

2nd Platform - With the Hemorrhage adds. Why? Because I'm bored. Because I can. Because I'm Paramount. Just make sure the Rogue is tossing tricks this way or you might find yourself on the business end of a world-class hissy-fit :p

3rd Platform - No Berserk.

4th Platform - As soon as the tank has established enough threat on the Mutation. We single-tank the encounter so top priority goes to killing the Mutation before the 2nd impale on the 4th platform.

On the last platform I just spam it as it's about ready to come off CD and I almost always get the full 4th one off before the kill.

Hope at least some of that crap helps lol.
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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby adianar » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:47 pm

That was helpful to me and makes perfect sense Paramount. Thank you.

Adi

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Arnathis » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:07 pm

Looking for some help on the heroic version of this fight. My damage is in the 70k area but the top parses are over 80. I'm not sure whether or not I should be dotting the extra ooze we keep up for spellweave procs. Generally i'll just throw an rake on it when I feel I have the time to without letting my bleeds fall of our main target. Might not even be worth it to do that.

I'm also going bear twice throughout the fight to get mass regen up for blistering tentacles so that hurts my damage but even before that I seem kinda low.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby pegàz » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:05 am

Ooze keep : rake + rip (refresh) fast then usual rotation on tentacle or mutated
Blood pop : keep rotation on mutated and swipe as much as u can without killing them befor parasite
Parasite : charge FF Ravage Swipe / 3rd and 4th u can rip parasite befor swipe ( that's what i do )
Last phase : Be sure to have full energy for each blood pop ( each 5% )

I go bear for my Cd on the 4th plateform and i've done a pretty good rank.
Good luck :)

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Sibylle » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:21 am

I might be really slow but: What good is it that the Elementium Bolt is feral charge-able once it's landed? We're supposed to dps it along the way. By the time it's in the ground, it's usually almost dead. Is there something I'm missing?
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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Laurind » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:52 am

The Ravage! buff (on you) doesn't go away, you still have a free ravage to hit the corruption/arm/whatever for a time.

Same thing you do to a blood before exposed tendon, free ravage, in spine

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Sibylle » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:01 am

Spine is clear, but my point is that on Madness I can't wait until the Elementium Bolt is on the ground because I'm supposed to dps it while it's still flying. By the time it hits the ground, there's not enough time to run out and charge back in, as it's nearly dead by then.

I'm talking normal mode here, btw, maybe that's the confusion? Is there perhaps more time on hc?
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