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Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Sibylle » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:42 pm

@Kasprodeth:

Wow. Just to let you know, we had another raid tonight and my damage is up significantly across the board. Here's as an example Yor'sahj hc which I compared to last week.

The things I did differently:
- equipped the VP trinket and hit it together with Tiger's Fury + Berserk, on one occasion also lined up with Heroism and potion
- put on the correct shoulder enchant :oops:
- created a Power Aura that shows me whenever Stampede is up so I don't forget to use the extra "Ravage!"

The difference is over 3k dps with the same gear. And that's just these few things I've changed. I'm floored.

Have I said "THANK YOU, YOU ROCK!!" yet?
-Sibylle

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Puna » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:53 am

Glad to see you're improving! Remember practice doesn't make perfect, it makes permanent. If you can try and go through your logs after raids, or comb through the logs that we have parsed for you and look for the things we mention. once you can start finding your own mistakes, you can really start fine tuning your play style. Keep striving to improve and you always will :D

And a personal thanks to those of you who over the last few weeks have taken up the task of helping parse through logs while Tinder and I have been getting roflstomped by IRL. That's what makes this community so amazing, everyone helps everyone and we all win.

We finished DS last week so now that I'm back down to a 1 day raid schedule I should be back parsing logs again more frequently.

<3 Puna

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Samskeyti » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:59 pm

I really like reading this post, but personally, I feel a bit lost when looking through parses, I don't really know how to dissect them and find all this information you guys see in there. Did someone ever explain in this forum how to look for the information? I'm sorry if it has been done. And, maybe one day I'm brave enough to post our log :-)
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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Kasprodeth » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:28 pm

Sibylle,
For the cancelaura macro its gonna look something like this, although there are a couple ways of doing it, this is how I use it.
/cancelaura Primal Madness
/cast Tiger's Fury
/use Kiroptyric Sigil
(anyone feel free to correct that, im not on my home computer)

But basically if you write it like that you can press the button once and it will use Tiger's Fury and your vp trinket. When you press it a second time it will cancel the Primal Madness buff, which gives you an extra 20 energy for 6 seconds. The idea is that you say shred at ~40 energy then press the macro. As long as you hit the macro at less than 20 energy you will have "gained energy" for free. This is a little more advanced so getting your uptimes better is a bigger priority, but its something you can work on in the future. Another thing that I found useful for H yor'sahj was taking the trinket out of that macro and saving it for black ooze phases where you will be swipe spamming. Now if you dont get a black ooze on the first pass pop it anyways with berserk otherwise your losing out on a lot of trinket uptime.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Puna » Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:31 pm

I learned to parse through logs just by sitting down and mucking around with WoL for a few hours.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Sibylle » Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:59 am

Kasprodeth wrote:Sibylle,
For the cancelaura macro its gonna look something like this, although there are a couple ways of doing it, this is how I use it.
/cancelaura Primal Madness
/cast Tiger's Fury
/use Kiroptyric Sigil
(anyone feel free to correct that, im not on my home computer)

But basically if you write it like that you can press the button once and it will use Tiger's Fury and your vp trinket. When you press it a second time it will cancel the Primal Madness buff, which gives you an extra 20 energy for 6 seconds. The idea is that you say shred at ~40 energy then press the macro. As long as you hit the macro at less than 20 energy you will have "gained energy" for free. This is a little more advanced so getting your uptimes better is a bigger priority, but its something you can work on in the future. Another thing that I found useful for H yor'sahj was taking the trinket out of that macro and saving it for black ooze phases where you will be swipe spamming. Now if you dont get a black ooze on the first pass pop it anyways with berserk otherwise your losing out on a lot of trinket uptime.

That's brilliant, thanks again! *goes to set it up*
-Sibylle

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Sahadee » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:10 am

Hey guys and girls! =)

I am reading the forum a while because i was mocked about my dps, installed Ovale, and using the script, which really helped me a lot. I'm asking you for further help, because I'm still being mocked, have no other feral in the guild to race or compare with, and I want to get better at dps-ing. So please if you have time and energy help my kitty to become strong =)

My armory profile: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/arathor/sahadee/simple

Last week hc ds farm: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-8zp9nmohjiyl1dzf/sum/damageDone/

Thank you =)

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:43 pm

Sahadee wrote:Hey guys and girls! =)

I am reading the forum a while because i was mocked about my dps, installed Ovale, and using the script, which really helped me a lot. I'm asking you for further help, because I'm still being mocked, have no other feral in the guild to race or compare with, and I want to get better at dps-ing. So please if you have time and energy help my kitty to become strong =)

My armory profile: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/arathor/sahadee/simple

Last week hc ds farm: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-8zp9nmohjiyl1dzf/sum/damageDone/

Thank you =)

Hey Sahadee. Welcome to the community!

Gear wise I have a few suggestions. While all of our stats are very close together it is usually best to try and focus the stat that you perfer the most. However your reforging and gemming/enchanting seem to conflict a little. You are going heavy Mastery with reforges, but you are gemming Agi/Haste and have your gloves enchanted with Haste. You should replace the golve enchant with Mastery no matter what you do as it is the best enchant. I would also recomend that unless you are using it for the Tank Meta requirements that you replace the Orange gem in your ring to a Red 40 Agi gem.

Your spec looks fine, but you should replace the TF glyph with Bloodletting.

Log wise the biggest thing I see your Savage Roar uptime is pretty low. On any stand still fight like Morchock, Yor'Sahj, and Ultrax you should be able to keep SR up above 90%.
Second biggest is lining up cooldowns. Using TF and Berserk together is a must, and mixing it with your Agi potions give you the biggest burst possiblity. If at all possible line these all the time.

Morchock:
SR uptime was 66%. This murdered your damage here. For 1/3rd of the fight your 3 biggest damage dealing ablity was hitting for 50% less damage. Your bleed uptimes were very decent for this fight at 90% and 88%. If you had been able to keep SR up around 90% too you would have done much better here. Cooldowns lining up here is very importent. On this fight you never TF'd, Berserked, or Pot'd at the same time. They were all spread out. Also putting off Berserk at the start of the fight ended up pushing out your second TF out to over 1:30. Because of this you missed being able to use 2 extra TF's over the fight at least.

Zon'ozz:
Zon'ozz sucks being melee on HM. Bleed up times suffer cause you have to run around so much with targets that die to fast. However there are things you can do to maximize your damage output. Lining up your cooldowns here was better, but still could be better. Don't be afraid to use TF on the adds. It looks like out of the 6:17 fight you only used TF 6 times. You should be using it off cooldown or as close to off cooldown as possible.

Yor'Sahj:
Rip uptime can suffer on this fight somewhat because of all the target switching and aoe. However you can keep Rip up on the boss sub 60% much easier (Bloodletting will help a lot here too). Rake is another matter. You should be able to keep Rake uptime in the high 80's low 90's even swaping for Oozes. SR is also very importent here as well, and both were sub 70%. Also use FF on every single Ooze.

Ultraxion:
Bleed uptime on this fight is critical. Having Rip and SR at 81% uptime is no good. This is the single fight that you shouldn't use Bloodletting and instead use mangle. You also had time to use TF 11 times, but only used it 7. If you are using a glyph that lowers the cooldown of an ability and you arn't using it on cooldown the glyph has become worthless. You also waited to use FF for a full minute into the fight. When you are starting in Bear form for this fight there is 0 excuse not to use FF when it can cause damage.

Based on all of the logs I have seen I have a feeling that you need to download a mod that will help you track cooldowns and debuff uptimes. There are several to choose from. I like Raven myself. Making sure to make the most of out all of your cooldowns is very importent. Hope that helps. Good Luck!

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby skoats » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:06 pm

Could you help me tear down my cat and rebuild it. I would like to start simple, such as spec, gems, reforges....etc. I have been steadily slipping in the dps meters and I'm looking for some help. I will have to admit I have been using mr robot, which I believe has lead me in the wrong direction. During raids over the passed few months my dps has seemed to level out while everybody elses has increased. Typically on raid bosses I pull about 30-32k, on target dummies i pull around 20k. The reason I ask to start simple is because I want to understand what I am doing wrong. I just started using Leafkillers Ovale script.
A small step in the right direction.

Here is my armory:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/t ... ats/simple

Thanks,
jp

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:24 pm

Hey Skoats. Welcome to the commnity.

I am not a huge fan of Ask Mr Robot myself. It looks like you have a balanced mix of stats, but are low on hit/exp caps. While not required to do good dps, it does really help smooth out the rotation. I took a few minutes and did a few reforges and ran your character through Mew. If you reach both hit and exp caps and reforge for Mastery>Haste>Crit according to Mew it would be about a 2700 dps boost. Now don't forget that is with perfect execution on a stand still fight, so you won't likely see that type of jump translate right away in game. That will take some practice and patience.

Picking up Leaf's script will be a big help getting comfortable with the rotation. I recomend you pratice it outside of raids to get used to how things go.

The trick about Target Dummies is they will never be an accurate DPS measurement. Most likely you will not be fully raid buffed, won't have BL, and the dummy won't get into execute range. They are there to test how rotations and get practice. I would spend some time on one and see how good your bleed uptimes can be. Just don't worry about the final number Recount/Skada puts out.

Your gemming is fine color wise, but I would replace the Orange gem in your chest with Agi/Haste, or Agi/Mastery (only a minor difference). Spec is also fine. You don't need to have Brutal Impact for any fights this tier, so you could use it for some damage reduction talents if you like. I won't be able to tell you much more until I could get a log to look at. If your guild doesn't take logs you can actually do it yourself, it is a very simple setup. Hope that helps.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Leafkiller » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:24 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:Ultraxion:
Bleed uptime on this fight is critical. Having Rip and SR at 81% uptime is no good. This is the single fight that you shouldn't use Bloodletting and instead use mangle. You also had time to use TF 11 times, but only used it 7. If you are using a glyph that lowers the cooldown of an ability and you arn't using it on cooldown the glyph has become worthless.


I have noticed this in my logs also - not as many TFs as I would expect. Part of that is due to delays around leaving the Shadow Realm (not just the time spent out, but also the reluctance to cast TF when it might be interrupted). I think the issue is the difficulty in getting energy low enough to optimize the value of the energy gain of the TF especially since this is exacerbated by the energy gains that happen when you are out of the realm. I ended up hitting Heroic Will 8 times on my most recent fight, 5 for fading Light and 3 for Hour of Twilight. If TF comes off of cooldown around Hour of Twilight, it could easily be delayed by up to 10 seconds (some before, some during and some after to get energy low again). The 5 Fading Lights would likely have a smaller impact in that delaying TF before them seems unlikely, but each time they affect you, you end with extra energy to burn.

In my script, I have increased the TF threshold to 45 energy in a mangle spam situation compared to 35 when shredding, but that may not be enough for Ultraxion as it was measured on Patchwerk fight without the interruptions and energy gains. I have never built a sim script for heroic Ultraxion, but based on what I am seeing in my logs it would not surprise me to see more complex logic around TF would increase TF usage and (hopefully) dps.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby skoats » Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:37 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:Hey Skoats. Welcome to the commnity.

I am not a huge fan of Ask Mr Robot myself. It looks like you have a balanced mix of stats, but are low on hit/exp caps. While not required to do good dps, it does really help smooth out the rotation. I took a few minutes and did a few reforges and ran your character through Mew. If you reach both hit and exp caps and reforge for Mastery>Haste>Crit according to Mew it would be about a 2700 dps boost. Now don't forget that is with perfect execution on a stand still fight, so you won't likely see that type of jump translate right away in game. That will take some practice and patience.

Picking up Leaf's script will be a big help getting comfortable with the rotation. I recomend you pratice it outside of raids to get used to how things go.

The trick about Target Dummies is they will never be an accurate DPS measurement. Most likely you will not be fully raid buffed, won't have BL, and the dummy won't get into execute range. They are there to test how rotations and get practice. I would spend some time on one and see how good your bleed uptimes can be. Just don't worry about the final number Recount/Skada puts out.

Your gemming is fine color wise, but I would replace the Orange gem in your chest with Agi/Haste, or Agi/Mastery (only a minor difference). Spec is also fine. You don't need to have Brutal Impact for any fights this tier, so you could use it for some damage reduction talents if you like. I won't be able to tell you much more until I could get a log to look at. If your guild doesn't take logs you can actually do it yourself, it is a very simple setup. Hope that helps.


Thanks so much for your help.

I did what you said and reforged to get hit capped and exp. soft cap (I believe is 26; I'm currently sitting at 31 exp.) I have reworked a lot of my reforges to give me more mastery. I also replaced the orange gem with agi/haste. I understand what you saying about target dummies and recount, but they a unit of measurement, that I can report to you. So far, I have seen a significant increase in my overall dps by about 1000. So I went to mew; and wow that looks pretty intimidating, so I didn't bother. I will do more reading and see if I can figure it out.

I'm long time player but a first time raider so there are a lot of things I just don't understand yet. So if I ask dumb question please be patient with me. Here is my first.

Is there such thing as a haste, crit and mastery cap?

I have also set up an account on World of Logs, if I understand how to run it I hope get you a report sometime next week.

Thanks again for your help

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:17 pm

Don't worry about asking questions here.

In answer to your question: Nope. The only caps we have are the exp softcap (26 rating, or 781), and the hit cap (961).

For helping to get used to reforging I recomend www.wowreforge.com and the addon Reforgerade. Just hitting the optimize button will give you a decent reforge plan. When you are ready to step up to Mew you can make a custom character that will import directly into Mew at Chardev.org.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby MM590 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:14 pm

Hello! Currently trying to give a hand to my druid friend, whom I am trying to help but we're....having some issues with her DPS in Normal DS10. We're not a progression raid, but, would like to either see her improve her Feral Spec, or perhaps switch to Boomie.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/m ... ela/simple

- Currently lacking any sort of logs, but she consistently had trouble pulling above 16-17k. Which just seems horridly low to me; She insists her rotation is fine. But, I'm not so sure on that either.

I suppose for want of a simple answer, should she be pulling better damage? I feel as if she should, and it's frustrating me that she insists she has hit the brick wall. Perhaps we have hit her skill ceiling for Feral, I don't know.

But, any help that you can offer would be appreciated.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Leafkiller » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:03 am

MM590 wrote:Hello! Currently trying to give a hand to my druid friend, whom I am trying to help but we're....having some issues with her DPS in Normal DS10. We're not a progression raid, but, would like to either see her improve her Feral Spec, or perhaps switch to Boomie.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/m ... ela/simple

- Currently lacking any sort of logs, but she consistently had trouble pulling above 16-17k. Which just seems horridly low to me; She insists her rotation is fine. But, I'm not so sure on that either.

I suppose for want of a simple answer, should she be pulling better damage? I feel as if she should, and it's frustrating me that she insists she has hit the brick wall. Perhaps we have hit her skill ceiling for Feral, I don't know.

But, any help that you can offer would be appreciated.


Her expertise is at 31 - well over cap (26) - she needs to reforge that to be lower (or get it lower by changing out her 346 ilvl trinket which has a lot of expertise on it). She has 8 unenchanted items. She can upgrade a lot of gear simply by using valor points. She could get the crafted 397 bracers as those are BiS until heroics. She could replace her crafted blue PvP boots with the 397 BoE valor boots which would not require any of her own Valor points. There are a ton of trinkets that are better than "The Left Eye of Rahj" including DMC:Hurricane, the 397 valor trinket, the 359 jp trinket and pretty much any agi trinket that drops from any of the raids. In other words, there are a ton of things she could do right off the top that will increase her dps a great deal just with her gear. Without logs it is hard to judge a rotation, but given the state of her gear, my guess is that there is room for improvement there. On her spec, as a cat she should have Primal Madness maxed out. She can pull a point out of Furor for that. Also, I would recommend that she shift the two points out of Infected Wounds (tanks should be covering that) and move them into Nurturing Instinct, which will improve her survivability and also make her Tranquility more effective.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Iced » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:52 pm

Alright well to keep this short and sweet. I want criticism on my gearing. gemming and reforging. My dps is actually very decent as I have the rotation down pat. Bleeds at at least 95% uptime if not a 100% from the first application. The way I typically reforge is hit 8% expertise to 26 then work out a series of forges using wowreforge to get haste=mastery=crit with haste always being slightly a hair over for matrix stabilizer. Though I am not falling behind in dps whatsoever i know there is some room to get the numbers up a little bit so please feel free to constructively criticize me.

Armoury: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/m ... ced/simple

thanks!

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:19 pm

Hi Iced. Welcome to the community.

Gems: I think your gemming is just fine. The only suggestion I would make is to replace the Agi/Crit gem in your chest with Agi/Haste (as you favor haste in your reforges).

Gearing: I can think of a few gear upgrades you should be looking out for. If you can get your hands on Wrath of the Unchaining, and Vial of Shadows, even the LFR versions are better then what you are using. I would get the crafted bracers to replace the valor ones. Replace the Brimstone Seal with the 397 valor ring (can't remember the name). If at all possible pick up the offset shoulders from Morchock and get the tier 13 gloves.

Reforging: This is really up to the user. If you setup is working for you stick with it.

If you would like some tips about rotation please feel free to post up some logs.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Iced » Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:31 pm

Oh yeah i plan to get my hands on a few pieces for sure, My stat selection is based off of making sure bleeds are up 100% and being within melee range of boss for a great portion of the encounter. and those agil crit gems vary from agil/haste agil/mastery agil/crit based upon how easily i can manipulate secondary stats to get them what I want them to

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Kitty DPS Issue

Postby kumineko » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:55 pm

1. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/hellscream/Badkittie/advanced
2. I feel like i am not doing the dps that my ilevel of gear should be doing. I would accept any help you could provide me.
3. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-p2ck49t440dzb5aj/analyze/dd/source/.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:42 am

Hi Kumineko. Welcome to the community.

Gearing I would focus on a few things. You should really be going for T13 4p even if most of it is from LFR. You have almost no hit or exp which will hurt you a bit. I would also enchant your boots and cuffs. Replace the Agi/Crit with an Agi/Haste gem. To late right now to go over the logs. I will do it tomorrow.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby kumineko » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:48 am

I was following the balance reforging in Ask mr robot, is that bad? Cuz the blog in fluid druid said you didnt need the hit and such. But if you are suggesting to reforge for hit. Do you have a good site to help you reforge/gem/enchant like the rogues have shadowcraft one?

I started using Ovate last night comparing between that and Spellflash: Druid (since this one had said they had leaf scripts added to them) it turns out there are some difference that make Ovate improve my dps.

As of 4 set T13, i just havent been lucky at all, I only have the shoulders which are 384, and since they dont do anything by themselves i will keep using the underworld spauders until i get more pieces.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:55 pm

kumineko wrote:I was following the balance reforging in Ask mr robot, is that bad? Cuz the blog in fluid druid said you didnt need the hit and such. But if you are suggesting to reforge for hit. Do you have a good site to help you reforge/gem/enchant like the rogues have shadowcraft one?

I started using Ovate last night comparing between that and Spellflash: Druid (since this one had said they had leaf scripts added to them) it turns out there are some difference that make Ovate improve my dps.

As of 4 set T13, i just havent been lucky at all, I only have the shoulders which are 384, and since they dont do anything by themselves i will keep using the underworld spauders until i get more pieces.

Ya Ask Mr Robot isn't the best place to get info from.

Back at the very start of Cata (pre 4.0.6) hit wasn't required to be capped because so much more of our damage was focused on Bleeds (which can't miss). When 4.0.6 came out the bleeds were nerfed and damage was shifted into our melee attacks. At the start of Firelands they modified our scaling so and yellow attacks got stronger, and SR was buffed as well. As soon as bleeds were no longer 60% of our dps, and more like 40% being hit capped, or at least in the ball park became a nice thing to have. It smooths the rotation out. For instance in your Ultraxion fight, 26 Auto Attacks, 9 Mangles, 6 Rakes, and 4 Fury Swips failed to land due to hit and exp being so low. Failing to keep combo point generation going can lead to lower Rip and SR uptime (77% and 89% respectivly).

Ferals don't have a one way is best method of reforging like most other classes. Our secondary stats are so close in power that it really is up to you. If you just want simple you can use www.wowreforge.com and hit the optimize button. This will give you hit and exp caps and put Mastery as the priority. I you are serious about improving using chardev.org + mew is the way to go.

Also come on, you have had those boots and bracers for almost 2 months and you still haven't enchanted them? I know the bracer enchant might be a little expensive, but there is no excuse for the boots. The agi enchant is what 3 dust?

Speaking of bracers, get the crafted ones. They are better then anything till you get to Heroic Blackhorn.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby kumineko » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:27 pm

Ok I made the bracers , changed enchants on chest piece and got bracers and boots enchanted and gemmed the bracers. Reforged using Wowreforge.

Is Chardev.org a tool you download along with mew?

For some odd reason i am more used to Ovate on badkittie than my other feral bear/kitty druid maybe because she doesnt have the 4 set T13. As soon as i can i going to run my other druid through the same things you suggested and try to improve her dps as well.

Still i am putting all efforts to re make Badkittie my main as it used to be.

Later today i will re run LFR and post a new World of log and see if i have improved.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:52 pm

http://chardev.org/ is a web tool that will let you build a character with what ever gear reforges and gems and then export it to a file Mew can read. It will let you test reforging and gear configs with out spending money in game.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby kumineko » Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:33 pm

Here is the world of logs for today on first part of LFR

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-n7khglztka17opqt/

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