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Doc for ferals

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Doc for ferals

Postby Elamari » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:00 pm

I am still confused as to why Doc is a dps increase over HotW. The latest simcraft takes Doc. Is +50% for 2 melee abilities > +6% to agility? And if so, by how much?

Also just to clarify, does the 50% healing bonus from NS stack with the 30% healing bonus from DoC?

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Re: Doc for ferals

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:14 pm

They do stack. Also stacks with your Catform Glyph.

What makes the DoC +50% so powerful is that it applies to bleeds. Using it to Buff Rake, or Rip is a 50% boost to their entire duration. That + Mastery makes for a HUGE buff. I have seen gaines of 10k dps up over HotW (both with SotF).

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Re: Doc for ferals

Postby Elamari » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:33 pm

It will have to nerfed, that sounds way to op, assuming the same logic the last time our bleed were nerfed :(
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Re: Doc for ferals

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:17 pm

Well unlike last time we actually have to do work for these bleeds to be great. We also have SR to take into consideration.

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Re: Doc for ferals

Postby Rarge » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:51 am

Wait so we're going to have to be shifting out of cat form, using a regrowth then shifting back in and then apply Rip/Rake?

Edit:
Nevermind, I just looked at the new PS and NS and saw we don't have to pop out of cat form. Seems weird having to heal to do DPS but sounds like it'll increase the skill cap of the class a bit.

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Re: Doc for ferals

Postby Konungr » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:43 am

Rarge wrote:Wait so we're going to have to be shifting out of cat form, using a regrowth then shifting back in and then apply Rip/Rake?

Edit:
Nevermind, I just looked at the new PS and NS and saw we don't have to pop out of cat form. Seems weird having to heal to do DPS but sounds like it'll increase the skill cap of the class a bit.


You need to look at DoC again, you have to use a Non-Instant Cast of Regrowth to benefit from the Damage bonus.

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Re: Doc for ferals

Postby AsgardFM » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:53 pm

Konungr wrote:You need to look at DoC again, you have to use a Non-Instant Cast of Regrowth to benefit from the Damage bonus.


You need to look at DoC again, it was changed recently to include non-instant casts. Also, I think we're losing Regrowth in Mists (Ferals, Guardians and Moonkin now only have Rejuvenation, Healing Touch and Tranquility for our healing)

But yes, we'll be using a finisher and getting Predatory Swiftness to proc, casting HT then applying a 50% bonus to the next two spells, likely Rake and Shred. Only way to get DoC to boost a 5CP Rip is by taking Nature's Swiftness and popping that just before Rip.

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Re: Doc for ferals

Postby Konungr » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:13 pm

AsgardFM wrote:
Konungr wrote:You need to look at DoC again, you have to use a Non-Instant Cast of Regrowth to benefit from the Damage bonus.


You need to look at DoC again, it was changed recently to include non-instant casts. Also, I think we're losing Regrowth in Mists (Ferals, Guardians and Moonkin now only have Rejuvenation, Healing Touch and Tranquility for our healing)

But yes, we'll be using a finisher and getting Predatory Swiftness to proc, casting HT then applying a 50% bonus to the next two spells, likely Rake and Shred. Only way to get DoC to boost a 5CP Rip is by taking Nature's Swiftness and popping that just before Rip.


Look at what you just said...

Image

PS and NS make it Instant, which would disqualify it's use...

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Re: Doc for ferals

Postby AsgardFM » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:22 pm

Ah, I see my error there. Got my own wording mixed up... my mistake.

However, that is an image from the official website talent preview. Unfortunately, that page has not seen many changes - it was created then updated once...once out of many, many patches.
If you check the latest talent build on wowhead, MMO-champion or the Mists beta then you will see the following.

"Wrath, Starfire, Starsurge, and melee abilities increase healing done by your next healing spell by 30%. Tranquility is not affected.
Nourish, Healing Touch, and Regrowth increase the damage done by your next 2 Moonfire or Sunfire casts by 50% or by your next 2 melee abilities by 50%.
Each of these bonuses lasts 30 sec."
(Viewable at http://mop.wowhead.com/mists-of-pandaria-talent-calculator#dO|

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Re: Doc for ferals

Postby aggixx » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:03 pm

Image

If you were using the Battle.net calculator (although it doesn't look like you were) it tends to be quite outdated.

I've been working on the Feral SimC profile a lot in the past few days (I kind of ended up being the maintainer of it =P) and I just found a huge issue with the way DoC was being handled in the action list. You'll probably see an update by tomorrow that will put ferals up another 2k-2.5k DPS.

Also, I would like to point out that Regrowth and Nourish are Resto spells, and as such we do not have access to them. Not that it really matters, we'd be using HT over them anyway.
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Re: Doc for ferals

Postby Alaron » Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:15 am

My Shifting Perspectives column for WoW Insider will touch on this tomorrow. Sneak peek for the 3 of you who are still reading these forums: http://tinyurl.com/957x6lp

Aggixx, thanks for working up the profile! I'd be interested in how you came up with some of the breakpoints, if you've ever got free time. When I was working simc profiles back in Ulduar/ToC days, that was always the sticking point.

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Re: Doc for ferals

Postby Sibylle » Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:50 am

Thanks for the sneak peak! :)
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Re: Doc for ferals

Postby Nyge » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:38 am

Thanks for all you hard work on this guys, and thanks for the sneak peak !

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Re: Doc for ferals

Postby Sorcerer » Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:39 am

To myself the DoC mechanics are so CLUNKY and stupid.
I pray to myself this will severly overhauled.

Anyone accounted how many new keybinds we have access too with new and old abilities available to be used as cat? 3rd hand needed.

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Re: Doc for ferals

Postby Konungr » Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:54 am

Sorcerer wrote:To myself the DoC mechanics are so CLUNKY and stupid.
I pray to myself this will severly overhauled.

Anyone accounted how many new keybinds we have access too with new and old abilities available to be used as cat? 3rd hand needed.



Not that many, once you consider how many things are removed. I haven't done the count yet, but if you manage to surpass my use of 86 keybinds, then you can start bitching...

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Re: Doc for ferals

Postby Sorcerer » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:19 am

Well 1 thing is amount of keybinds. 2nd thing is amount of available keybinds that are 'easy on use' on keyboard considering in game combat and utility of some new tools like typhoon/HT and new utulities. I was never a fan of keybinds everything on a complete new slot and ctrl/alt combos. Shift is not bad but its mediocre in some cases with some keys.

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Re: Doc for ferals

Postby Grenache » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:34 am

Haha I agree. I have learned to play my healing and casting toons with a Logitec G13 for the sheer comfort, but due to the amount of binds and old muscle memory my feral still needs a normal keyboard. I am contemplating the big switch in 5.0 as I find using Alt and Ctl and Shift too uncomfortable, and cant use a decent mouse like a Naga due to RSI. I got some USB footpedals this last tier and they are fantastic. I guess we need to add Thrash, and Healing Touch to our bars now.What else?

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Re: Doc for ferals

Postby aggixx » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:44 pm

Sorcerer wrote:To myself the DoC mechanics are so CLUNKY and stupid.
I pray to myself this will severly overhauled.

Anyone accounted how many new keybinds we have access too with new and old abilities available to be used as cat? 3rd hand needed.


I think it's about the same as live, at least for PvE.
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Re: Doc for ferals

Postby Leafkiller » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:00 pm

aggixx wrote:Image

If you were using the Battle.net calculator (although it doesn't look like you were) it tends to be quite outdated.

I've been working on the Feral SimC profile a lot in the past few days (I kind of ended up being the maintainer of it =P) and I just found a huge issue with the way DoC was being handled in the action list. You'll probably see an update by tomorrow that will put ferals up another 2k-2.5k DPS.

Also, I would like to point out that Regrowth and Nourish are Resto spells, and as such we do not have access to them. Not that it really matters, we'd be using HT over them anyway.


Are you "jorgster247123"? I have been looking at the changes to the rotation yesterday and today (you fixed things I noticed yesterday). I just commented about this on my Ovale script thread. I would like to hook up with you sometime soon to talk about the rotation and what can be done to make it more playable. I should probably jump onto IRC and see if you are there...what name are you using on IRC?

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Re: Doc for ferals

Postby aggixx » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:16 pm

Yup, that's me. And yeah, I know the name is lame =P

My IRC name is aggixx, at the moment you can likely find me any time of the day from noon to 2am CST, ish.
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