Register

Leafkiller's 4.3 Feral Ovale Script

Face-rippin fun.
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:17 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.3 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Caylaura » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:13 pm

Leafkiller wrote:
Caylaura wrote:Has anyone experience FF being suggested like a finisher while in Bear form? I tried turning off FF in the options and it doesn't suggest it through out the pull, but once a mob gets low on health it consistently suggests to use it.

The other question I have and forgive me I know little about Ovale or scripts, is this script some how responsible for the overall appearance? In particular the suggested ability is displayed as an icon, but it also has a frame surrounding the suggested abilities which I don't like and wanted to remove.


Second question first. The addon Masque will allow you to customize the look of the frames. You can find it on Curse.

For a bear FF does damage and is a good source of Threat gen. The current bear script is based on an optimized threat gen rotation that was refined in Mew. There is nothing in the script that will suggest FF more often when the mob has low health. There are two cases where you could see FF suggested:

1. You have enabled the FF option, and someone else is overwriting your armor debuff with one that is not fully stacked (Expose Armor, Sunder Armor). I often run with a prot warrior, and if I don't disable FF (in cat or bear) I will see it pop on and off because sometimes Sunder falls off and he has to restack it.

2. You are low on Rage or there is nothing else to do (i.e. Mangle is on cooldown, Lacerate is stacked to three, Pulverize is not expiring in the next 3 seconds, and Thrash is on cooldown).


Thank you, I will download Masque.

I deleted Ovale and re-installed it last night. That seemed to fix my original FF issue. It does however still quickly flash the icon as a suggestion even with FF disabled. Any thoughts?

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1145
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:28 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.3 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Leafkiller » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:14 pm

Caylaura wrote:I deleted Ovale and re-installed it last night. That seemed to fix my original FF issue. It does however still quickly flash the icon as a suggestion even with FF disabled. Any thoughts?


The second point I listed will happen regardless of the FF setting as it is part of the rotation. It is suggesting it because you are either low on rage or everything else is on cooldown. When it flashes by quickly it is because your rage came back up and/or something came off of cooldown (or Lacerate is not stacked to 3).

Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:13 pm

Re: Leafkiller's 4.3 Feral Ovale Script

Postby mineko » Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:17 pm

So I got into the MoP beta, but I haven't had much time to mess around with it. So far I've only messed around with talents and glyphs. The rotation feels a little simplified, with the need to mangle removed completely. I went with Soul of the Forest for the extra energy regen, because I felt like I was waiting for energy a lot. I wonder if Incarnation would be more of a dps boost though, and when would be the optimal time to pop it. Maybe during berserk, to get the maximum number of ravages off?

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1145
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:28 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.3 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Leafkiller » Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:42 pm

For all we know Force of Nature will be the best choice...I also went with Soul of the Forest for my first testing. One thing that puzzled me was the tooltip on Rake referring to not needing to recast it while a bleed was up on the target. I did not see that in the short amount of testing I did, so either it is not implemented or I am interpreting it incorrectly.

I also felt energy starved, and without using any addons, it was difficult to time when to throw a FB into the rotation. Mangle definitely has no place in a raid rotation now other than fights you can't get behind. It always seems a little weird to me that the primary filler we use while raiding is not usable while solo leveling, and the primary filler we use while soloing, will no longer even be in the raid rotation.

I am not sure what the value of Incarnation will be since Ravage will still cost 60 energy (unless I missed a change on that).

I grabbed Typhoon for leveling. Swiping a bunch of mobs and knocking them back was a kick ;)

Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:13 pm

Re: Leafkiller's 4.3 Feral Ovale Script

Postby mineko » Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:27 pm

Leafkiller wrote:For all we know Force of Nature will be the best choice

Good point, I didn't even consider it. I just dismissed it as boomkin/resto fluff, but it's usable in cat form too.
One thing that puzzled me was the tooltip on Rake referring to not needing to recast it while a bleed was up on the target.

I noticed that too, but I took it as something they just threw in for the sake of noobs so they don't spam it. Though I guess there could be more to it.
I also felt energy starved, and without using any addons, it was difficult to time when to throw a FB into the rotation. Mangle definitely has no place in a raid rotation now other than fights you can't get behind. It always seems a little weird to me that the primary filler we use while raiding is not usable while solo leveling, and the primary filler we use while soloing, will no longer even be in the raid rotation.

I hear you there. No addons made me feel crippled, and it kills me that I can't see how much dps I'm doing, either. And not using mangle at all just feels off, after like 6 years of being my raid group's mangle bot.

Honored
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:33 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Leafkiller's 4.3 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Grenache » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:25 am

Hi guys, long time Ovale user here. Just wondering if Leaf is planning to release a new 5.0 script after the upcoming patch?

Honored
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 2:58 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.3 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Terias » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:31 am

I don't think ovale is even updated for beta.

Honored
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:33 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Leafkiller's 4.3 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Grenache » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:38 am

Oh dear. My dps is about to go into the toilet. I had been meaning to wean myself off it at some point. Just need a good set of power/weak auras. Anyone got anything I can import?

Honored
User avatar
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:28 pm
Location: England

Re: Leafkiller's 4.3 Feral Ovale Script

Postby AsgardFM » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:28 pm

Grenache wrote:Oh dear. My dps is about to go into the toilet. I had been meaning to wean myself off it at some point. Just need a good set of power/weak auras. Anyone got anything I can import?


I tried setting up a series of auras a while ago but I found that I couldn't get a clean setup - everything just seemed out of place. Instead found a different addon tailored for Ferals (and possible use for Guardians these days): Cat Rotation Helper
http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/catrotationhelper
Doesn't tell you what to use, just displays timers and cooldowns for key Feral abilities. There's a few other similar addons out there that I tried before settling on that, so if thats the path you want to take then just have a nose around.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1541
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: Leafkiller's 4.3 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Tinderhoof » Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:07 pm

I have talked with Leaf a little about think. I think I will be taking over the script for the time being. As I am waiting for more changes before I start messing with it, I don't expect an update by the 5.0 patch. Maybe a week or so later.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1145
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:28 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.3 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Leafkiller » Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:37 pm

Since Mew is no longer being updated, I joined the simulationcraft development effort so that I could work on the rotation. I have been monitoring changes to the simc code base and feral is pretty far along so I will be seeing what I can do to improve the rotation soon. If you look at the simc daily summary, a lot of work has already been done to create a MoP rotation and is ongoing (Twigele and jorgster247123 have both checked in changes in the last two hours - so it is ongoing as I type this).

I spent some time looking through the new rotation and it is interesting. The talent build that is being used is NS+DoC along with SotF. I noticed some cases missing yesterday that have already been incorporated today.

The biggest issue from a rotation perspective is that there are currently 10 distinct actions for when to cast Healing Touch and 4 distinct actions on when to cast Nature's Swiftness. From an Ovale perspective, there are several actions that compare the rake tick "multiplier" to a (presumably constant) tick multiplier which I am assuming is 50% from DoC. Currently in Ovale there is no way to check what the tick multiplier is on a spell. Last I checked there are no calls in the Blizzard API to determine this, so the only way to do so would be to look at combat log events before and after Rake is cast to see if TF and DoC were active at the time of the cast. This assumes that the combat log is sequenced properly (something you could test Tinderhoof).

Once it looks like the simc feral rotation is not being changed hourly by others, my plan is to see what I can do to simplify the rotation and make it easier to deal with in Ovale. I may make a request for a change in Ovale to support the tick multipliers if it is something that can be determined from the combat log. In Cata I was able able to work around that because the values for Rake refreshing compared to the TF cooldown were enough to know when a Rake should be refreshed without having to look at the tick multiplier. With DoC this is not case since Predatory Swiftness can proc more often then the TF cooldown. I think it is important to simplify the current rotation without impacting the dps output just so we can actually execute it in game as having a simulation rotation that is not playable is not helpful for players.

Of course, if DoC gets nerfed a lot of the rotation changes could be moot, and it is the one talent that significantly impacts the rotation (not including substituting Ravage for Shred if you are using Incarnation).

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1145
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:28 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.3 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Leafkiller » Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:52 pm

As a side note, there is an alternative script that can be used that is available as an Ovale addon: http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/nerien-ovale-scripts

If you look at the authors google code site: https://sites.google.com/site/wownerien/ovale/druid you can see a discussion of the various specs he has incorporated into his addon. His feral script is based on the current simulationcraft feral script which is based on the Mew feral script so the rotation is very close to what I have in my current script. He also included a toggle to include changes where my current script differs from simulationcraft. Most likely the small differences are due to changes I did not propagate over to Simulationcraft as the are very small and mostly about making the spec slightly more playable, and are pretty much dps neutral in the simulations I ran.

As the work on the Nerien scripts is very current (changes in the last week) I am assuming that the author plans to continue them into MoP. I have not tried the feral script to see what the other frames are like, nor did I do a line by line analysis of it to make sure it is a correct implementation, but from what I did see, I expect that it is correct (or really close to it). I am planning on sending an email to the author to see what his plans are for MoP, since we could work with him to provide the script for the feral community. One thing I like about his approach is that he has replaced the default Ovale scripts via an addon which simplifies installing the rotation.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1188
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:49 pm

Re: Leafkiller's 4.3 Feral Ovale Script

Postby aggixx » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:05 pm

Leafkiller wrote:The biggest issue from a rotation perspective is that there are currently 10 distinct actions for when to cast Healing Touch and 4 distinct actions on when to cast Nature's Swiftness. From an Ovale perspective, there are several actions that compare the rake tick "multiplier" to a (presumably constant) tick multiplier which I am assuming is 50% from DoC. Currently in Ovale there is no way to check what the tick multiplier is on a spell. Last I checked there are no calls in the Blizzard API to determine this, so the only way to do so would be to look at combat log events before and after Rake is cast to see if TF and DoC were active at the time of the cast. This assumes that the combat log is sequenced properly (something you could test Tinderhoof).

Once it looks like the simc feral rotation is not being changed hourly by others, my plan is to see what I can do to simplify the rotation and make it easier to deal with in Ovale. I may make a request for a change in Ovale to support the tick multipliers if it is something that can be determined from the combat log. In Cata I was able able to work around that because the values for Rake refreshing compared to the TF cooldown were enough to know when a Rake should be refreshed without having to look at the tick multiplier. With DoC this is not case since Predatory Swiftness can proc more often then the TF cooldown. I think it is important to simplify the current rotation without impacting the dps output just so we can actually execute it in game as having a simulation rotation that is not playable is not helpful for players.


The biggest issue is that something that I can explain to a person as simply as "Use your PS on bleeds, when you're about to do a finisher, or when your PS is about to fall off" and "use NS on Rip, and also use it on Rake and FB during BitW" takes far far more lines of code to explain to a computer.

Starfox (Twigele) and I found an issue yesterday where dot and CP conditionals on Healing Touch weren't working at all because the sim was checking the target of the heal not the enemy, and since then I've been iterating on the rotation quite a lot now that tweaking the lines actually does something to the sim's output. I feel the feral rotation in SimC is in a pretty good place right now, I'm working on tweaking NS usage a little bit at the moment but otherwise it feels really solid to me and I'm basically exhausted of any more ideas for a DPS gain.

Oh, and another thing: When you say that HT/NS have x amount of distinct lines, really a good portion of those could be reduced down. They're only split up so much because internally I have the lines all labelled so I can see how often they're executing per iteration.
Image

Previous

Return to Kitty DPS

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cetlysm and 5 guests