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Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:54 pm

Going from 35k dps last build to 95k dps is a bug. The stated goal of HotW was to allow you to perform at 80-90% of what one of the other full specs could do for 45 seconds. While they may have tried to update it, there was not stated change, and no change to the tooltip. Normally when they make a change that large to a talent they mention something. Don't expect being able to do more DPS with HotW active then in your normal spec.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Sorcerer » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:13 pm

Delete, I was blind with change to set bonus... @ below post.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby aggixx » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:51 pm

On beta it only procs off of auto-attacks. See: http://mop.wowhead.com/itemset=-499

And what Tinderhoof said. HotW is completely broken so we're not going to implement it for the time being. If it turns out that we can get a 1k DPS gain from it from spamming Wrath for 45 seconds, then great, but as it is now doing 50% more damage than you can as feral DPS is obviously not intended.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Cerise » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:10 pm

Leaf, are you planning on writing an updated Ovale script for MoP?

Agixx, thanks for all the work you're putting into SimulationCraft.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Leafkiller » Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:18 pm

Cerise wrote:Leaf, are you planning on writing an updated Ovale script for MoP?

Agixx, thanks for all the work you're putting into SimulationCraft.


I am planning on someone maintaining a script for MoP. Whether I am the primary maintainer remains to be seen. I will certainly maintain some involvement as long as I am playing.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby aggixx » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:49 pm

Ok, I've got raids now but here's what I got so far today:

Build 16010:
- line rake1 disable still a gain or neutral (-40 DPS)
- disabling line rake_doc2 is a DPS loss (-530 DPS)
- line rake_doc2 rake.remains<12 removed. Not checking duration is now optimal (+30 DPS)
- line ps_rake_TF rake.remains<12 removed. Not checking duration is now optimal (+140 DPS)
- line ps_rake_postTF is optimal, checked rake.remains, tf.remains
- disabling line ps_rake_postTF is a DPS loss (-50 DPS)
- disabling line ps_rake is a DPS loss (-275 DPS)
- changing ps_rake rip.remains is a loss
- Not sure why I even had 4pT14&rip.remains> check on ps_rake lines, but it's a DPS gain. Removed the 4pT14 check portion.
- Using NS on rakes preBitW if rip isn't falling soon is still a gain (50 DPS), but the threshold is irrelevant. I tried dot.rip.remains>4 all the way to >10 and it was all DPS neutral. This is only if you have 4pT14 because without you can just use NS on every 3rd rip (every 66 seconds)
- line ns_rake1 rake.remains<12 removed. Not checking duration is now optimal (+90 DPS)
- fixed a conditional on HT filler FB line (.up -> .remains>=action.healing_touch.gcd) (??? DPS)
- increased rip threshold on FB filler line to 8 seconds (+250 DPS)
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Sorcerer » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:54 am

Once we are a bit closer to release, lets say in 2 weeks I'd love some more background regarding simc these:

- future scaling
- burst damage in 30/60sec scenarios
- burst damage with future tier scaling aswell.

Let's look at the bright side, patchwerk DPS is irrelevant, as long as we have the burst required for certain encounters and scale well.
Heroic Council/ragnaros style fights is where despite being in the middle of the DPS pack, we shall be top classes for burst.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Alaron » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:41 am

Let's keep this thread focused on SimC optimization for Patchwerk for now. Once that's settled, we can expand the discussion to modeling other fight scenarios.

Ovale discussion should go in another thread.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby aggixx » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:23 pm

I plan on finishing up that list of number tweaks a in a little bit, but I'm out of genius ideas otherwise at the moment, so if anyone has ideas I can give them a shot if they make sense.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby aggixx » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:18 am

Found a 200 DPS gain by adding a SR/Rip desync line. I tried a couple different placements but it's possible that there's a less obvious one that's more DPS.

actions+=/savage_roar,if=combo_points>=5&target.time_to_die>=8.5&dot.rip.remains<=12&buff.savage_roar.remains<=(dot.rip.remains+4)
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby aggixx » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:46 pm

So it seems that when they moved Blood in the Water from a talent into Ferocious Bite, they (intentionally or unintentionally) changed the way it functions. The snapshot of your stats that used to be performed when you refreshed a Rip with Ferocious Bite no longer happens, the power of Rip that you initially put up is carried on and on forever (at least in theory).

Definitely has some room for abuse in the action priority list, but most importantly SimulationCraft needs to be updated to account for this distinct difference.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:03 pm

As this breaks the rules of all other bleeds and dots (ie snap shot) I would make sure to save the work for the way it currently is. I would be shocked if this isn't fixed by the second week of launch.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby aggixx » Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:17 pm

I just committed the update, it was no more complicated than adding a 0 parameter to the refresh_duration() and extend_duration() functions, should be cake to revert when it comes to that.

Now to work on action list abuse!

Oh, and I also confirmed that the Bloodletting effect does not resnapshot on beta either.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Terias » Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:58 am

Pot, TF, Trinkets, Engi gloves, tailoring cloak, NV - are there any external buffs? Wonder how high you could get rip ticking for.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Leafkiller » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:09 pm

aggixx, are you following the discussion I started in the simulationcraft google group? Jon indicated that attack power is not included in the calculation of tick_multiplier, which means things like potions, engineering gloves, tailoring cloak, and many item (polearm/trinket) procs are not being included in the calculation. I think we need to change that, either by changing tick_multiplier, or creating a new call that is similar to tick_multiplier but with AP included.

Also, while I was commenting on that, I realized that a potential improvement to the Rake/Rip clipping code would be to tune the the threshold at which we will clip, for example, the following action:

rake,if=target.time_to_die>=8.5&buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up&(dot.rake.multiplier<=tick_multiplier)&!prev.rake

might be tuned by changing it to:

rake,if=target.time_to_die>=8.5&buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up&(dot.rake.multiplier+200<=tick_multiplier)&!prev.rake

Keep in mind, I don't know the numerical range that is returned by tick_multiplier (other than it is 0 sometimes) so the 200 is simply there for illustrative purposes. This won't be that useful unless attack power is included in the tick_multiplier calculation since we don't really know right now if we are going to clip with a more powerful spell*.

* Rip will tell us to some degree with the "more powerful spell" error message.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby aggixx » Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:02 pm

Yes, I was aware that it only includes percentage damage increases. I also found out that the rotation *sometimes* executes this line twice in a row:
rake,if=target.time_to_die>=8.5&buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up&(dot.rake.multiplier<=tick_multiplier)&!prev.rake

Which confuses me greatly because it's not supposed to...
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Leafkiller » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:01 am

@aggixx:

1. Did you do any playing with trying to refresh Rip during BiTW in cases where it was not initially cast with one of the many damage modifiers? I didn't see anything in the checked in rotation.

2. I was looking at the new buffs/debuffs post today and noticed that feral is one of the classes that can put up the weakened blows debuff via thrash. I am not sure if we should include this in the rotation since every tanking class plus rets can also put this up, but if we did want to, it would probably belong near where we have the weakened armor test for faerie fire.

3. Did you see my post about Ovale directly importing the simulationcraft scripts? Now we can maintain the feral rotation in a single place as long as we are willing to give up on some of the extra cooldown boxes and rely on other addons for those.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby aggixx » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:37 am

1. No. Edit: To elaborate, it uses its pot on it's first try so the chance of being able to execute a better one later is low, and a lot of work, so I didn't bother.
2. Probably, but I don't see it as really important. As far as I know none of the tank specs really gain anything by not putting it up themselves.
3. Yup, sounds awesome.
Last edited by aggixx on Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby adianar » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:47 pm

Guys,
I sincere thank you from all of us that mostly read and follow direction behind you. Your work makes our raiding far more enjoyable as we don't have to "find the pitfalls" you catch on the front end. We largely skip the pain because of you and you should be well thanked for that.

Adi

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby aggixx » Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:08 pm

Althor indirectly pointed me towards this video yesterday, and it seems to tell me that the action list still has a long way to go.

Hardcasting HTs for Rips and possibly Rakes is something I definitely want to try, and I think I also saw him clipping the last tick of Rip quite often just to get the DoC'd one up.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:59 pm

This video made the rounds on the main forums. It was taken while DoC was still at 50% after the Rake buff. I doubt the hardcasting will be nearly as effective as it was for him.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby aggixx » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:00 pm

Ah, thanks for the information. I still think it's definitely something to try under the right circumstances though. 25% damage gain on a rip is a ton of damage, far more than a couple auto attacks.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Alaron » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:43 am

Aggixx, can you check to see if Ravage is properly getting the +50% crit buff with the target above 80% health? I suspect it isn't, which may be depressing Incarnation's value.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby aggixx » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:38 pm

Went to check that for you and found out that someone broke Feral Incarnation! It never casts Ravage while incarnation is up :o

Will get back to you once that's fixed.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby aggixx » Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:56 am

Thanks for the tip Alaron. I'm seeing a 43% crit chance of Ravage over the course of an encounter that happens entirely in the 80-100% window of the bosses HP. Completely clueless how to fix such a thing myself, but I'll let someone know!
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