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Heart of the Wild and Wrath

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Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Arnathis » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:52 am

Seeing most top parses with 30% or more of their damage coming from wrath. What's going on here?

As a side note, I was able to pull 61k on Feng with a DoC rotation and rank fairly high overall. Our single target seems very competitive, we'll see what happens at higher gear levels but I'm excited.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Dysheki » Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:09 am

It's the Heart of the Wild Talent. Try it out before it's nerfed!

Raid uses Heroism.
/cast Int Pot
/cast Heart of the Wild
/equip SP Staff
/cast wrath
/cast wrath
/cast wrath
/cast wrath (etc)

The burst is silly.
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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Etapicx » Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:11 am

It seems to be diffrent on all bosses, The only thing i've yet not seen is FoN on highe ranked WoL.

I'm personally switching to tryout DoC when i am more used to the tatics and the encounters because i've not done any raid testing.

Dysheki wrote:It's the Heart of the Wild Talent. Try it out before it's nerfed!

Raid uses Heroism.
/cast Int Pot
/cast Heart of the Wild
/equip SP Staff
/cast wrath
/cast wrath
/cast wrath
/cast wrath (etc)

The burst is silly.

If you aim at the highest number of burst

/agi pot
/Hero
/Nv/Inc/
/burst down to 10-20 energy then Pop TF and Zerk
/Normal rotation with ravage instead until Incarnation wheres off


Edit: I really can't see a big nerf coming because the talents combined with each other are good in alot of different situations. If anything the talents should be more balanced in the damage output with DoC being slightly better if mastered since it should be rewarded for mastering that rotation. I've not tried DoC out gravely but it seems to be quite complex.
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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:52 pm

Dysheki wrote:It's the Heart of the Wild Talent. Try it out before it's nerfed!

Raid uses Heroism.
/cast Int Pot
/cast Heart of the Wild
/equip SP Staff
/cast wrath
/cast wrath
/cast wrath
/cast wrath (etc)

The burst is silly.

Close. Don't use an Int pot, use an agi pot. Don't forget we have all of our agi converted to SP, and then HotW boots our SP by 50% of our agi.

Pre Pot
HotW
Wrath Spam
HotW ends
Weapon swap to agi
Drain energy
Berserk TF = Win

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:57 pm

And yes its broken as hell. We tried to tell them several times during the beta, but now that Raids are putting us very high using this burst, we will get nerf'd really quick. Here is why:
Greg Street was quoted saying how much they didn't like the Savage Roar mechanic in Cata, and they wanted to put some more complication back in the rotation. HotW Wrath spam + Weapon swap is pretty much a contradiction of their stated design goals. You can hork your rotation up and still come out doing way too good. When a Feral druid is doing 30% of their damage with Wrath, it won't stay that way.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby kaiadam » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:28 pm

I don't know, the numbers seem balanced to me. Hear me out ...

Most fights we are able to pull off two heart of the wilds, and most fights are 10 min or less. We're generally in HoTW form 15-20% of the time.

Furthermore, we usually have pots and heroism running during these phases, which also increases the perceived damage of HoTW. Finally, there's a ramp up/down time when we need to swap weapons that isn't accounted for in the "30% of top cat damage comes from wrath" since we are in cat form during both those weapon swaps.

So basically, it's a dps cooldown that increases our damage by slightly less than 50% while in the cooldown phase. Compare that to something like say, incarnation or stampede?

I mean, I wouldn't be surprised to see it changed because blizzard absolutely hates weapon swapping in combat, and the mechanics are very clunky, but it's definitely not overpowered from a numbers perspective. Druids also aren't miles ahead of everyone on meters - we're in the top echelon for sure though. The hunters, shadow priest, and I are all within spitting distance of each other (70k-75k on Garaj) on tank & spanks with the limited raiding experience I have so far and we're all more or less equally ranked on wol.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Dysheki » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:24 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:Close. Don't use an Int pot, use an agi pot. Don't forget we have all of our agi converted to SP, and then HotW boots our SP by 50% of our agi.


Oh dear.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:58 pm

Forgot to mention, any on use Agi trinkets make this pretty insane as well. Only problem is nothing will line up with TF/Berserk for the rest of the fight unless you delay.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby aggixx » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:24 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:HotW boots our SP by 50% of our agi.


Heart of the Wild doesn't do anything to your spell power, it is merely a flat spell damage bonus.

The reason you would use Agility pot instead of Int Pot is because you get almost 1.17 agility per 1 agility from the pot, thanks to Mark of the Wild / Heart of the Wild / Leather spec, and 17% more spellpower from the agility is superior to an almost negligible amount of spell crit you get from int.

If you're going to use HotW wrath spam make sure you have trinkets that are either use effects (like Tinder said) or capable of proccing off of wrath, that's a very very big factor to what trinkets are and aren't good for HotW spec.
Last edited by aggixx on Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Bethany » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:24 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:Pre Pot
HotW
Wrath Spam
HotW ends
Weapon swap to agi
Drain energy
Berserk TF = Win


I was doing this on Feng last night, worked so well my only real competition in dps was from a boomy :D

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Viray » Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:07 am

Here's my log from yesterday. I've only figured out how to properly manage hotw on the second boss, which we sadly didn't get to kill (yet):

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-g ... 126&e=3489

My char is Maelcum, my fellow cat Restroll did a tad better than me, I totally forgot to use potions on the first boss :/

Anyways, my question is: if the HotW is such a big dps gain, maybe it's worth reforging into crit & haste? On most fights you can use it two times, and even when I use it once it still stands as 20-30% of my dps.
Someday, someone will best me. But it won't be today - and it won't be you.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Dysheki » Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:56 am

On my third and final use of a lucky charm thing I finally got something. And it was the Elegon trinket :D I was getting so annoyed with the on-crit trinket last night. You could see such a HUGE difference when it did and didn't proc.
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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby aggixx » Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:47 pm

Viray wrote:Anyways, my question is: if the HotW is such a big dps gain, maybe it's worth reforging into crit & haste? On most fights you can use it two times, and even when I use it once it still stands as 20-30% of my dps.


Yes, it is. The stat priority is essentially upside down from the DoC one: Haste >= Crit > Mastery > Hit = Exp. However, unlike the DoC stat values, these stats are very far apart. You might be able to see very a noticeable gain from switching your reforges to this. I would definitely NOT recommend capping your hit and expertise, you'll lose a very significant amount of DPS if you do.

Dysheki wrote:On my third and final use of a lucky charm thing I finally got something. And it was the Elegon trinket :D I was getting so annoyed with the on-crit trinket last night. You could see such a HUGE difference when it did and didn't proc.


This is why I tell people not to use the Brewfest trinket =P It's not just bad, it's horrendous. Almost any other trinket you can find is better than it.

Also, I got #2 parse on Feng (3rd overall, but #1 is a blood DK, psh!) and a #2 parse on Gara'jal (10th overall atm).

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/lhqe38uxjjkvfbv9/
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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Sorcerer » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:14 pm

Hotw was just amazing on elegon kill, though I must say another complicated shit added in our arsenal. I wasn't even prepared with macros/keybinds /fap.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Viray » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:27 pm

I've got a macro for ya:

Code: Select all
#showtooltip
/cast Heart of the Wild
/cast Berserking
/equip [insert caster weapon here]
/use 13
/cancelform
/cast Wrath


Just remember to switch back to your weapon afterwards! :)
Someday, someone will best me. But it won't be today - and it won't be you.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Bethany » Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:31 pm

Curious, during execute phase does anyone think that it would be worthwhile maintaining bleeds if you have a second HotW available and are wrath spamming? Minimizing the time in cat form to just Rake and a 1-2cp FB then resume wrath spam?

Also assuming no weapon swaps during the second HotW.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Etapicx » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:05 am

Bethany wrote:Curious, during execute phase does anyone think that it would be worthwhile maintaining bleeds if you have a second HotW available and are wrath spamming? Minimizing the time in cat form to just Rake and a 1-2cp FB then resume wrath spam?

Also assuming no weapon swaps during the second HotW.

I've not personally tested it out but i'd say the damage we do in HotW with a weapon swap is to good to waste the GCD going cat form especially not weapons swapping. However allways when i go HotW i put up strong TF buffed Rip, Rake and Thrash make 3 fast attacks on the Rip so it is extended. So i have them ticking in the beginning of HotW.
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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Cerise » Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:17 am

HotW is fantastic. Last night on Garajal I had 65k DPS with it, and that's on a fight where you can only use it once. (6 minute hard enrage timer). I'm in love <3

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby oakleaf » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:44 pm

People are posting on the forums about a 30% nerf to HotW damage. Haven't tested, still locked out from authentication probs their fixing.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby aggixx » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:05 pm

Feral -> Balance confirmed not nerfed, at least on my server.
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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Etapicx » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:23 pm

I've not seen HotW going down i had a 650k crit on Feng unluckly we didn't down him but that is another story.
Am i the only one seeing low Ferocious bite hits around 32k and crits being almost 4 times higher 5cps ofc.
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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Arnathis » Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:00 pm

Just tested.

Self buffed, no food, no flask but with a pre-pot.

30 seconds of HotW and wrath spam:

1st test

Avg Hit : 183.5k
Max Hit: 382.4K

2nd test

Avg Hit: 191.6k
Max Hit: 432.7k

Seems about on par with what I was getting pre-restart. I was getting an average of about 192-195 per hit before but during both of these quick tests i just did I only critted once each time so that's probably the difference.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Viray » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:23 am

Here's my log form yesterday's Spirit Kings kill:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r1sd ... 806&e=1362

I've reforged for testing into Haste, then a bit of Crit - and it worked great. I'd do even better if I wasn't killed by a two DK's who failed with a mechanics a bit, killing 7 chars on the quasi-MC stage of the Meng the Demented :P. Overall, I was dead for about 40s so I guess that'd make a huge difference.

I was switching my weapon to a 463 ilvl spellcaster staff, I used a prepot IIRC. One problem is I don't think the Darkmoon trinket can proc from spells, which is a shame.
Someday, someone will best me. But it won't be today - and it won't be you.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Cerise » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:54 am

Nice job Viray. Here's mine:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/fi8y ... 511&e=2081

Reforged according to Agixx' T14H profile. 460 ilevel.

I'm so in love with my Druid right now <3

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Mihir » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:29 am

How can you be inlove with being carried by wrath...
i absolutely hate it, and hope they nerf it asap. It pretty much doesnt matter any more how bad you are at keeping up bleeds, as long as you got a decent spelldamage weapon and can spam wrath...

Your logs are pretty bad, autoattack damage higher than bleeds? lol
it's only wrath that pushes you up on the damage meters, and there's zero skill involved with that.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-4 ... 918&e=5187 without having to lower myself to using wrath...

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