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Heart of the Wild and Wrath

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby kaiadam » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:27 am

The "bug" with BiTW is that when you use bite to refresh rip, the rip damage does not update dynamically with your attack power/damage buffs/trinkets etc.

So if you place a super-charged rip on the boss at 26%, you can sustain that rip tick damage for 25% of the boss' hp.

Feels more like a feature to me, but w/e.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Cerise » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:32 am

Viray wrote:HotW is totally not viable for Will of the Emperor encounter in my opinion.


Can you tell me why it's not viable? My guild is stuck at Elegon so I haven't had a chance to see this encounter yet.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Viray » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:56 am

You really have to tune into dance mode-trance tbh :) You have to avoid all the attacks from Devastating Combo, which will yield you a free 0,5mil attack. Jumping back and forth from boss to Courages is alone enough stress for me right now, when you have to avoid all the DC hits (it REALLY sucks to return to boss just to get stunned by a stomp & following attacks when you're stunned...).

That's the first encounter where I've dropped Wild Charge for 15% movement boost tbh. Also my symbiosis went to a warrior - his 10min CD Stampeding Roar is still worth it, if it helps a couple folks (we're raiding 25man) get their Opportunistic Strikes.
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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby kaiadam » Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:14 am

A big portion of the Will of the Emperors fight (for melee) revolves around the dance - the guy you're attacking will telegraph where he'll do a large (randomly aimed) aoe around him rapidly five times in a row. If you manage to dodge every attack while remaining within 15 yards of the boss, you get an extra action button that deals an instant 500k damage to the boss, and this dance happens every 20-30 seconds or something.

I think he means you can't do the dance while chainspamming wrath - which is true (you are either outside of the kosher range or will get hit with one of the aoes), so you don't get the benefit of the dance button.

So it's true, doc will most likely outperform hotw on twin emps if you're good at dancing. Not by a hugely significant amount, but it's still there.

DoC so far is winning on half the fights so far - stone guard, will, and spirit kings (at least I think it will be better, on heroic), and HoTW the remainder.
Last edited by kaiadam on Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Leafkiller » Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:46 am

kaiadam wrote:The "bug" with BiTW is that when you use bite to refresh rip, the rip damage does not update dynamically with your attack power/damage buffs/trinkets etc.

So if you place a super-charged rip on the boss at 26%, you can sustain that rip tick damage for 25% of the boss' hp.

Feels more like a feature to me, but w/e.


I would characterize this as neither a bug nor a feature, but simply a mechanic - one that has changed since Cata. It is advantageous on some fights, and detrimental on others. For a longer discussion, here is the post I put up on the beta class balance thread about it: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... age=46#901

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby AsgardFM » Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:12 pm

kaiadam wrote:... With DoC, hitting your HT macro is always a gain, no matter what else you're doing....


Is that a special macro for casting HT? Currently I've just been using one that either casts it on mouseover target or myself and doing my best to time it so I dont get caught in caster. With your specific mention of the macro I wonder if there is a command to avoid casterform-accidents happening?

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby kaiadam » Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:39 pm

Yes, as a matter of fact, there is a command to avoid auto-caster forming.

Code: Select all
/console autounshift 0
/cast [mouseovers, target of target, help, nodead, whatever modifiers you want] healing touch
/console autounshift 1

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby AsgardFM » Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:42 pm

Alright, thanks for that. Makes life a little easier.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby RareBeast » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:36 pm

Annoyingly, I still can't get a NS-HT macro to work that fulfills both :-

1) Not unshifting me
2) Not taking 2 clicks to cast

I seem to be able to do one or the other with everything i've tried but not both. Frustrating.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:52 pm

The NS dropping Feral and Guardian forms is a known issue from beta. The blues listed it in a post as a known issue, but they have yet to fix it. Sorry, but 2 clicks is the only way right now. Just be careful and don't click them to fast or you can get shifted as well.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Leafkiller » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:43 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:The NS dropping Feral and Guardian forms is a known issue from beta. The blues listed it in a post as a known issue, but they have yet to fix it. Sorry, but 2 clicks is the only way right now. Just be careful and don't click them to fast or you can get shifted as well.


You need to put in the "/console autounshift 0" and "/console autounshift 1" into your NS+HT macro Tinder (I am assuming you don't have that since you are concerned about getting shifted)...

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Gurrshael » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:47 am

The best macro I could come up with is this:

/run SetCVar("Sound_EnableSFX", 0)
/run SetCVar("autoUnshift", 0)
/cast Nature's Swiftness
/cast [mod:alt,@mouseover] Rebirth
/cast Healing Touch
/run SetCVar("autoUnshift", 1)
/run SetCVar("Sound_EnableSFX", 1)


It's usable both for two-click NS+HT and for single HT on Predatory Swiftness procs. It will not shift you out of the form and also prevent annoying "spell not ready" sound notification. It also performs NS+HT in one click when Predatory Swiftness proc is up (and correctly uses just the NS).

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:29 pm

Leafkiller wrote:
Tinderhoof wrote:The NS dropping Feral and Guardian forms is a known issue from beta. The blues listed it in a post as a known issue, but they have yet to fix it. Sorry, but 2 clicks is the only way right now. Just be careful and don't click them to fast or you can get shifted as well.


You need to put in the "/console autounshift 0" and "/console autounshift 1" into your NS+HT macro Tinder (I am assuming you don't have that since you are concerned about getting shifted)...

Right now I am not using a macro. Because I have HT with it's own button for PS procs I just put NS next to it. If I had to hit a button twice, a macro isn't giving me anything. I really want to use a macro though because it sucks to try and use the emergency heal to save myself and 2 presses isn't enough time to save me. They knew about this issue from the start of beta. FIX YOUR BUGS!

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby aggixx » Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:23 pm

Mihir wrote:Your logs are pretty bad, autoattack damage higher than bleeds? lol

Actually, if you're reforging haste > crit > mastery for HotW, then your rake/rip/autoattack damage should all be about even (depending on gear). If your bleed damage was higher than you either had some RNG or you did a poor job of sticking on the target.
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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby bearpelt » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:39 am

Greetings fellow kitties!

I made the grotesque mistake of not reading up on HotW and going into Elegon progression without using it at all (yes, you can throw rotten tomatoes at me now). Trying to remedy this and wish to ask what SP staves you guys recommend so I can try farming it before the next progression raid.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Viray » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:14 am

Don't bother with that, HotW will be useless in a couple of days:

Code: Select all
While we aren’t always able to provide advance warning when an ability changes, there’s still some time before this change goes into effect, and we wanted to offer affected players a chance to plan their strategies appropriately in the meantime.

The following changes are currently planned for retuning the Druid talent, Heart of the Wild:

    The spell damage bonus that Heart of the Wild provides to Feral and Guardian Druids will soon be reduced from +500% to +320%.
    The agility bonus that Heart of the Wild provides to Balance, Restoration, and Guardian Druids in Cat Form will soon be changed to +110%. It was previously +50% for Guardian Druids, and +200% for Balance and Restoration Druids.



Currently, the change is expected to go into effect during next Tuesday’s maintenance.


Source

I've got kinda mixed feelings about that nerf to be honest. It does make me happy that they're nerfing hotw, because when I was using HotW I was feeling like I'd be cheating a bit. You know 'yay, let's change to arcane mage for burn phase!' thing.

On the other hand - I'm angry that it makes DoC only viable talent ATM. HotW will propably end up overnerfed, and NV is way too weak AFAIK to compete with DoC. Here's to diversity & no-cookie-cutter-builds policy...
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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:36 am

I was telling everyone from the start this wasn't going to last. DoC isn't the only viable talent though. It may be the highest possible DPS talent, but if not used wisely it will be lower dps then HotW. You do still have options, just not stupidly broken ones.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:36 am

Also, Konungr. I told you so.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby bearpelt » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:49 am

Oh wow. Haha, bummer.

The silly thing is, I have 1 raid day before that nerf so will still have to 'exploit' this borked talent. :P Guess any old SP Crit staff will do then.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Viray » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:03 am

To be honest I really like the design of the Nature's Vigil, but I'm afraid of the dps loss compared to DoC done right :/ I won't be using HotW anymore because that's not the way to play feral kitty (I'm still glad of the nerf).
Someday, someone will best me. But it won't be today - and it won't be you.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Helistar » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:22 am

Viray wrote: The spell damage bonus that Heart of the Wild provides to Feral and Guardian Druids will soon be reduced from +500% to +320%.


That would approximately be from 6x damage to 4.2x damage. Or from 150k dps down to 105k. I would not call it "useless", expecially since in a ranged phase there aren't many alternatives....

What I dislike most of the talent is that it provides a cheap version of hybridization, i.e. when you switch to tank (which has happened me a couple of times), the gameplay is very different from a "real" Guardian, since several buttons are missing. I would have really liked a "spec conversion" with gear which is reinterpreted for melee<->caster simply by changing the main stat from agi<->intellect (and maybe hit/expertise<->spirit for heal). So e.g. if you go moonkin, you have the same hit/expertise as if you were cat, and you need to be able to manage eclipse/etc.

BTW I tested Nature's Vigil and I'm not impressed. The healing provided seems fairly weak for a top-tier talent, so the only useful part is the +20% damage which may be nice, but it's absolutely uninteresting.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Leafkiller » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:51 am

Helistar wrote:What I dislike most of the talent is that it provides a cheap version of hybridization, i.e. when you switch to tank (which has happened me a couple of times), the gameplay is very different from a "real" Guardian, since several buttons are missing.


The main rotation and the AoE rotation are identical (when I implemented HotW in my Ovale script, I actually share the same code that is used for Guardian). The main thing missing is Savage Defense, so all you really have for dumping rage are FR and Maul with FR being the only defensive rage dump. The gameplay is not significantly different.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Helistar » Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:35 am

Leafkiller wrote:The gameplay is not significantly different.


The #1 important and interesting thing of guardian gameplay is managing rage generation and SD uptime to limit incoming damage. I mean, the new fundamental thing for tanks in Pandaria was active mitigation, and when you "switch roles" it's not there.....

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Sorcerer » Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:45 am

Cat to Bear HoTW portion is completly useless already. I got globaled on feng HC as soon as I taunted. Just FYI if you gonna try it...

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby aggixx » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:59 am

Sorcerer wrote:Cat to Bear HoTW portion is completly useless already. I got globaled on feng HC as soon as I taunted. Just FYI if you gonna try it...


I would definitely not count on it elevating you tank level... I've always thought of it as a "hit this button and I'll live slightly longer when I try to tank this mob". =P
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