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Heart of the Wild and Wrath

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby apple » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:35 am

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6863336383
While we aren’t always able to provide advance warning when an ability changes, there’s still some time before this change goes into effect, and we wanted to offer affected players a chance to plan their strategies appropriately in the meantime.

The following changes are currently planned for retuning the Druid talent, Heart of the Wild:

The spell damage bonus that Heart of the Wild provides to Feral and Guardian Druids will soon be reduced from +500% to +320%.
The agility bonus that Heart of the Wild provides to Balance, Restoration, and Guardian Druids in Cat Form will soon be changed to +110%. It was previously +50% for Guardian Druids, and +200% for Balance and Restoration Druids.

Currently, the change is expected to go into effect during next Tuesday’s maintenance.


Cat/Bearwrath reduced by around 30% .

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Cerise » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:46 am

Sorcerer wrote:Cat to Bear HoTW portion is completly useless already. I got globaled on feng HC as soon as I taunted. Just FYI if you gonna try it...


It works amazingly well on Garajal LFR. Second tank couldn't keep up with wrathspam pewpew so when the first tank got send into the shadowrealm, I suddenly was the second tank lol. :lol:

But you're right, for any serious raiding situation, you go splat.

Oh well, time to hit the training dummy and practice the DoC rotation. Was fun while it lasted guys.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby kaiadam » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:14 pm

Yeah, we knew it was coming, not because it was overpowered, number-wise, but because you had to weapon swap to make it effective. Oh well, time to dumb it up with DoC.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:35 pm

Sorcerer wrote:Cat to Bear HoTW portion is completly useless already. I got globaled on feng HC as soon as I taunted. Just FYI if you gonna try it...

Not useless. However if you expect to take a hit from what I assume was a hugely buffed Heroic Feng if he just gibbed your MT, don't count to much on it. Also did you hit BS and SI at the time of taunt?

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Dysheki » Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:56 pm

To be honest I don't even know why weapon swapping is still in the game.

But anyhow, I want them to just COMPLETELY redo the entire last tier of talents. Wrath spamming is stupid. Stopping your use of potential heals for the good of the raid at smart times and instead use them to maximize your dps is stupid. One button macro fixed in with berserk is stupid.

The entire tier just sucks. IMHO.
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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Signas » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:38 am

Dysheki wrote:To be honest I don't even know why weapon swapping is still in the game.

But anyhow, I want them to just COMPLETELY redo the entire last tier of talents. Wrath spamming is stupid. Stopping your use of potential heals for the good of the raid at smart times and instead use them to maximize your dps is stupid. One button macro fixed in with berserk is stupid.

The entire tier just sucks. IMHO.

Feral HPS is pretty insignificant. I like Dream of Cenarius. It's made the Feral rotation even more engaging!

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Woem » Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:44 pm

"The spell damage bonus that Heart of the Wild provides to Feral and Guardian Druids will soon be reduced from +500% to +320%."


Finally, don't have to take this inane talent to be competitive on WoL

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Signas » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:45 pm

Woem wrote:"The spell damage bonus that Heart of the Wild provides to Feral and Guardian Druids will soon be reduced from +500% to +320%."


Finally, don't have to take this inane talent to be competitive on WoL

SotF + DoC Mastery builds are still very competitive when executed well.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby aggixx » Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:27 am

Competitive? Sure, but you have to work harder just to get slightly less DPS.
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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Viray » Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:01 am

Well at least it'll be easier (once more) to tell apart good & bad kitties :)
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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Dysheki » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:09 pm

Signas wrote:Feral HPS is pretty insignificant.


I *completely* disagree. It may be insignificant from an overall healing standpoint, but you aren't needed to sustain high levels of HPS - you need it during rough times to save your skin. Do you think the healers hate seeing me at 60% during a massive AoE damage phase while everyone else is critical at 20%? Have you ever seen someone just bleed out when a small heal would have saved them? Heroic stone guard, we need tiles, healers are busy with tanks and movement. I can go grab a crystal regardless of the petrification because of my heals. There are countless times on heroic Feng where I can use my heals during his AoE phases. Otherwise things happen like I get hit by a few chain lightnings in a row and die. Those are the only two fights I've done on heroic, but I would still assume my healing would be useful on other fights.

I agree it adds a little bit extra to the rotation but I like living more which is why I say it's clunky and counter intuitive.
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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Signas » Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:45 pm

Yeah, but I've always taken pride in that part as Feral.

Dysheki wrote:
Signas wrote:Feral HPS is pretty insignificant.


I *completely* disagree. It may be insignificant from an overall healing standpoint, but you aren't needed to sustain high levels of HPS - you need it during rough times to save your skin. Do you think the healers hate seeing me at 60% during a massive AoE damage phase while everyone else is critical at 20%? Have you ever seen someone just bleed out when a small heal would have saved them? Heroic stone guard, we need tiles, healers are busy with tanks and movement. I can go grab a crystal regardless of the petrification because of my heals. There are countless times on heroic Feng where I can use my heals during his AoE phases. Otherwise things happen like I get hit by a few chain lightnings in a row and die. Those are the only two fights I've done on heroic, but I would still assume my healing would be useful on other fights.

I agree it adds a little bit extra to the rotation but I like living more which is why I say it's clunky and counter intuitive.

You misunderstood. Had I said that having a free Healing Touch after every Swiftness proc or Nature's Swiftness use was bad, then by all means you would be right. These free heals are, in fact, extraordinarily useful after taking raid wide or almost fatal damage. In terms of actual Heals per Second, which is what HPS stands for, it is weak when you consider a 1 minute cooldown or the chance per combo point Swiftness proc. Don't misunderstand, I never said it was useless as you seem to have interpreted.

Back on topic, since Dream of Cenarius will (most likely) be the clear choice, I do hope that we see a small buff in the future. Whether it be in the form of higher damage from CP generators or by buffing Dream of Cenarius itself. I want to be rewarded for my extra hard work! :D
Last edited by Signas on Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Leafkiller » Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:05 pm

DoC is already about 4% ahead of the passive gain from HotW and NV. It does not need to be buffed. If anything, that gap should be a little less. If we lag behind others in dps, then our core talents should be buffed.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Abranor » Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:55 pm

Leafkiller wrote:DoC is already about 4% ahead of the passive gain from HotW and NV. It does not need to be buffed. If anything, that gap should be a little less. If we lag behind others in dps, then our core talents should be buffed.


Please help me with my comprehension. When you say DoC is ahead of the "passive bonus" of HoTW, it seems in my head your saying DoC played fully and HoTW played without the wrath spam, you're only talking about the +6% agility only.... (If that makes sense) I'm sorry I'm just really confused.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Leafkiller » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:13 pm

Abranor wrote:
Leafkiller wrote:DoC is already about 4% ahead of the passive gain from HotW and NV. It does not need to be buffed. If anything, that gap should be a little less. If we lag behind others in dps, then our core talents should be buffed.


Please help me with my comprehension. When you say DoC is ahead of the "passive bonus" of HoTW, it seems in my head your saying DoC played fully and HoTW played without the wrath spam, you're only talking about the +6% agility only.... (If that makes sense) I'm sorry I'm just really confused.


That is correct. Consider that the purpose of HotW is to provide a hybrid cooldown for druids, not a dps increase for either ferals or boomkins. With that in mind, the 6% passive bonus should be sufficient for competitive dps, while the 6 minute cooldown should allow us to effectively play a role either than melee dps for 45 seconds.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Abranor » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:38 pm

Leafkiller wrote:
Abranor wrote:
Leafkiller wrote:DoC is already about 4% ahead of the passive gain from HotW and NV. It does not need to be buffed. If anything, that gap should be a little less. If we lag behind others in dps, then our core talents should be buffed.


Please help me with my comprehension. When you say DoC is ahead of the "passive bonus" of HoTW, it seems in my head your saying DoC played fully and HoTW played without the wrath spam, you're only talking about the +6% agility only.... (If that makes sense) I'm sorry I'm just really confused.


That is correct. Consider that the purpose of HotW is to provide a hybrid cooldown for druids, not a dps increase for either ferals or boomkins. With that in mind, the 6% passive bonus should be sufficient for competitive dps, while the 6 minute cooldown should allow us to effectively play a role either than melee dps for 45 seconds.


So if you were to think of it used strictly as a DPS cooldown it would come out on top (now for sure/after Tuesdays change maybe)? Thanks for helping me out here.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Leafkiller » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:57 pm

I doubt it will come out on top after Tueday's nerf, but none of us has modeled that.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby aggixx » Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:18 pm

Abranor wrote:So if you were to think of it used strictly as a DPS cooldown it would come out on top (now for sure/after Tuesdays change maybe)? Thanks for helping me out here.


No, it most definitely will not. It was never intended for anyone to use the active effect as a DPS gain, and after tuesday they will have nerfed it to the point where if you try to use the active for a DPS gain it will actually be a small DPS loss.
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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Abranor » Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:45 pm

Thanks for clearing it up for me guys! For whatever reason I was having a heck of a time wrapping my head around it.

~edit: I'm coming back to full time feral after a break playing my rogue in Cata. This is a great resource, thanks for the info here.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Viray » Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:56 am

I really hope worldoflogs.com decides to clear feral rankings after hotw nerf... :)
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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby aggixx » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:41 am

Just wait until we get some more gear and we should be able to smash the current records.
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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby kaiadam » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:28 pm

I think it'll take a bit before we get enough gear to smash the #1 parse on 25m Elegon ^_^

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Yriss » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:27 am

i really doubt i'll be able to do another spike to 1billion dps on elegonhm without hotw xD
At least it was funny :)

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby aggixx » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:41 am

kaiadam wrote:I think it'll take a bit before we get enough gear to smash the #1 parse on 25m Elegon ^_^


I'm not so sure about that! You have to consider how hard Elegon can be outgeared, the more gear you have the more waves you can push which should allow you to kill the boss exponentially faster. Not to mention you'll eventually have guilds have 1 (or more) of their DPS sit on the boss fulltime during the wave phase just to rank.

Also, /fistbump fellow rank 1 holder :D Some heroic mode caster jerkbags beat my #1 rank so I came back this lockout and beat them on normal again :P
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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath

Postby Sorcerer » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:18 am

I still have elegon for tonight, dont set up your hopes to keep even #2 for too long :)

Anyone was able to use HoTW twice, p2 entry and p3? I gotta check logs if I can pull this instead HoTW on the pull.

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