Register

strength enchant for kittys?

Face-rippin fun.

Moderator: Forum Administrators

Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:00 pm

strength enchant for kittys?

Postby xbrmat » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:10 pm

I have read a few places that best enchant you can get for your gloves as a kitty is strength not the mastery one?

can anyone tell me if this is correct and why or is it just bs I'm reading?

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1145
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:28 am

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby Leafkiller » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:11 pm

The last stat weights that aggixx calculated ( viewtopic.php?f=3&t=817&start=125#p8501 ) show strength slightly ahead of mastery. Since both enchants are adding 170 stat points, the strength enchant may be slightly ahead at the moment. The rotation has been improved since then, so take those weights with a grain of salt.

Also, the standard disclaimers about the issues with stat weights apply. They only measure how much a given stat is worth given a current gear setup and do not calculate the overall worth, in other words, they tell you what stat is best to add to your current setup, not which stat is best overall. Calculating overall stat weights is an np-complete problem, making it computationally very difficult to solve, and they vary depending on the fight.

If you really want to know whether or not strength is better, your best bet is to get the latest greatest simc script (in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=879#p8779 ), replace the gear setup with your current gear setup and then run sims using each enchant. If you see a noticeable dps difference (greater than the error) using one enchant or the other you will have your answer.

User avatar
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:07 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby Jaymzhendo » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:47 pm

Also remember that the Str Enchant will be increased with Mark (or its equals).
Image

Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:27 pm

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby apple » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:54 pm

Hoi there.

Usually the "normal" TC webpages for cats recommand Dancing Steel as weapon enchantment of choise

However, some webpages/programms recommend Windsong (at least close behind Dancing Steel) and/or Elemental Force and Major Agility (permanent +130 agility) even before Dancing Steel.

Is there any reason for this is or are these webpages simply wrong?

SYL

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1655
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:15 pm

Which pages are you refering too?

Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:27 pm

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby apple » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:10 pm

RAWR, and some smaller German one. I was just surprised to read it because at firt glance the Dancing Steel enchantment looked like a no-brainer.

SYL

Honored
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:05 am

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby RareBeast » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:44 pm

I wouldn't take the Rawr recommendation too seriously at this stage. It is still very much in development. It is improving but it is nowhere near the level of simcraft yet when it comes to modeling the feral rotation.

User avatar
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:07 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby Jaymzhendo » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:59 am

Dancing should still be best, with Windsong close behind due to its chance to multi-proc (can have all 3 buffs active at once).
Image

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1655
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby Tinderhoof » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:29 pm

Puna has reported issues with the Dancing Steel proc rate for ferals. It ends up being about 50% less then our other 2H dps counterparts. If it is in fact broken folks should hold off using it until they have fixed it. I will do some testing this weekend and see what it looks like. If anyone else has Dancing Steel and wants to snap some logs that would be great.

Honored
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:20 pm

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby Sorcerer » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:19 pm

Dancing steel on feng HC 8:25
procs 18
time 174.9
uptime 34.6 %

Feng HC kill http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-i6ic88x29mn54qb2/
Some gara HC wipes http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-i6ic88x29mn54qb2/

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1343
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:49 pm

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby aggixx » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:34 pm

In SimulationCraft Dancing Steel is vastly better than Windsong for feral. Sorcerer, you actually got a significantly higher uptime (34.6% versus the sim's 27.4%) so the enchant is definitely not broken (or at least if it is it is in our favor).

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1086121/simc_pr ... hants.html

PS: Damn that's a lot of two letter words that begin with I.
Image

Honored
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:20 pm

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby Sorcerer » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:49 pm

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/5j1q ... 210&e=2577

This is 16.4% uptime log for full Gara'Jal HC

Might be that there are some issues.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1343
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:49 pm

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby aggixx » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:58 pm

I wouldn't count on Garajal logs being of any value unless you were the one logging or both you and the person logging were up fulltime.
Image

Honored
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:20 pm

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby Sorcerer » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:59 pm

Oh forgot I wasnt doing logs for that night, silly me

Honored
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:20 pm

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby Sorcerer » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:49 am

Pretty sure we can almost confirm that either dancing steel procs a bit too much or almost not at all. Not enough samples but I think there is some pattern showing

Kill log from Gara HC, my own log so its not skewed by inside job.

Dancing Steel 16.7%

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ps23 ... 837&e=2195

On the other hand Elegon trinket, kinda small sample but 41.2% uptime looks amazing.

Revered
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:41 am

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby Dysheki » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:12 am

Yeah, bottle uptime is pretty good. 15% change on any damage to proc a 20 sec buff with a 45 second ICD works out to a maximum 44.4% uptime. I think realistically you should be able to get at least 40% if you assume you can reliably get the buff up after 5 seconds of the ICD coming up.

Just looking at your logs rq, you were applying the buff with intervals of: 56s, 47s, 45s, 52s, 49s, 46s. That averaged out to just over 49 seconds between each buff. Small sample, but still shows a pretty damn good trinket.

Realistically if your fight had gone on another 25 seconds your uptime would have dipped to slightly below 40% since you gained nearly a full buff at the end.
Image

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1655
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:37 pm

After finally getting to use Dancing Steel in a raid I am almost positive it is broken. Be it broken for Ferals, or broken for everyone else it's busted. While SimC may assume a proc rate of around 27% for Ferals every log I have looked at shows that Ferals have about a 50% proc rate vs other 2h melee users. Looking at Sorcerer's logs on the Feng attempt. His uptime was considered good at 34%. But look at the proc count for the rest of the raid:
Actor Count
Colafizz 86 (Rogue)
Méso 46 (Monk)
Sorcereria 18 (Feral)
I ignore the Rogue as they likely have it on both weapons so we expect a higher proc rate. Méso may or may not have been dual wielding. Here is the count from my Gara'Jal kill last night:
Actor Count
Wafflesz 49 (Rogue)
Nooberoni 40 (Rogue)
Slappa 33 (Warrior)
Yolo 20 (Monk)
Saitek 15 (Pali)
Donnamartin 13 (Pali)
Tinderhoof 7 (Feral)

Nooberoni was logging and never went down. Same with myself. Slappa and the Rogues are dual wielding. Yolo is Brewmaster for this fight and has the same weapon as I do. My up time was 23%. Not to bad. However Yolo's was 53%. Over the 12 attempts we had before the kill the total proc count is:
Actor Count
Wafflesz 507 (Rogue)
Nooberoni 365 (Rogue)
Slappa 277 (Warrior)
Yolo 211 (Monk)
Donnamartin 176 (Pali)
Saitek 148 (Pali)
Tinderhoof 90 (Feral)

Noob and I never went down below during any of the attempts. However the Ret's did from time to time as backups so they could LoH themselves for the buff. Over the whole night of raiding:
Actor Count
Wafflesz 705
Nooberoni 534
Slappa 343
Yolo 329
Donnamartin 258
Saitek 212
Tinderhoof 123

Other then Slappa who sat for Spirit Kings all of us were in for every attempt. My only early death before a wipe was called was on Elegon right before P3 started. Now anyone who knows me knows how bad my luck is with any form of random number generation (in game and out). I know I have back luck. However while going through logs I have yet to find a parse where the Feral wasn't dead last in procs unless no one else had Dancing Steel. The proc is broken. Just don't now who for yet.

Honored
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:20 pm

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby Sorcerer » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:36 pm

Just to confirm, Meso DW.

Kinda sux badly, I will run through a bit more logs maybe wed to check for some patterns.

Anyway, someone could report US, reporting on EU is waiting for nothing.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1343
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:49 pm

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby aggixx » Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:03 pm

Regardless of if it's broken, it's still significantly better than the alternatives. Your Dancing Steel uptime would have to go below 12% for Windsong to surpass it. It's possible that we ferals are getting the short end of the stick where we're just getting significantly less out of our weapon enchant than anyone else, but Dancing Steel is still the best regardless.
Image

Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:44 am

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby frostybloke » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:01 am

Tinderhoof wrote:The proc is broken. Just don't now who for yet.


I Took a look on wowhead to see if the wider community had reported problems with this and found this:

"By rodalpho (4,335 – 1·9·77) on 2012/08/24 (Patch 4.3.4) Report
The devs told us exactly how MoP weapon enchants work at the link below.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... page=8#154

I'm pasting it here in case they retire the beta forums after release.
River's Song: 2 PPM on melee attacks that land, or are dodged, or parried.
Dancing Steel: 1 PPM on melee attacks that land.
Colossus: 3 PPM on melee attacks that land, or are dodged, or parried, with a 3-second cooldown.
Elemental Force: 10 RPPM on melee damage, or non-periodic spell damage/healing with a 0.1-second cooldown.
Jade Spirit: 10% chance on spell damage or healing, 50-second cooldown.
Windsong: 2 RPPM on melee damage, or non-periodic spell damage/healing with a 1-second cooldown.
Edit: As of 10/15/12, Windsong and Elemental Force now proc on all damage and healing, including melee, ranged, direct and DoT.

They now trigger on the new "Real Procs Per Minute" (RPPM) system, which is weapon speed and instant attack independent and fully detailed in this blue post.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6893549789
Last edited by rodalpho 9 days ago (Patch 5.0.5)"


So we should expect 1ppm, Tinderhoof, how long were those fights?

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1655
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:36 pm

We were hitting the enrage timer at 6 minutes. The kill was 5:53 seconds.

So I was getting 1.2 procs per minute. Seems good. The Pali's getting 2-3 procs a minute was a little dishearting.

I am aware of the new RPPM, but that applies to Windsong and Elemental Force only. Dancing Steel is still on the old PPM.

Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:35 pm

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby Growlgrrl » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:41 pm

Just a thought, but might the proc rate be set at our cat autoattack speed and not our weapon speed? That would give us roughly 1/3rd of the proc chance than someone using a 2hder, and sinse we have so many spare globals compared to a class like a monk we end up hitting less often with a low proc chance our uptime suffers.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1655
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby Tinderhoof » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:52 pm

The weapon speed applies to the new RPPM mechanic that applies to Windsong and Elemental Force. However you are correct that weapon speed is ignored for kitties and our swing timer is used.

Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:35 pm

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby Growlgrrl » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:28 pm

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... page=6#110

5.1 all the MoP enchants are going RPPM:
Dancing Steel 2 RPPM
Jade Spirit 2 RPPM
River's Song 4 RPPM
Colossus 6 RPPM

This will give everyone the same uptime.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1343
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:49 pm

Re: strength enchant for kittys?

Postby aggixx » Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Growlgrrl wrote:This will give everyone the same uptime.

That's a little large of a conclusion to jump to, but we can hope!
Image

Next

Return to Kitty DPS

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Karyy, Paloro and 7 guests