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Question about DoC

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Re: Question about DoC

Postby Ampzilla » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:37 am

Just to clarify and this was my fault for posting it in this thread. Assume I'm not using DoC, I haven't seen a large difference in the aggressiveness that FB is suggested. I'm assuming that's because I'm still using SotF?

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Re: Question about DoC

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:31 pm

Yes the SotF talent is the reason for the more aggressive FB's, not DoC.

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Re: Question about DoC

Postby Leafkiller » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:14 pm

Just to be clear, the rotation is implemented the way it is in Ovale because that was the highest dps we could measure in Simulationcraft. We tried different rules for when to aggressively FB in order to get higher Rip uptimes, and what we have simply produces better numbers in our simulations.

You can follow any rotation you wish to, and I do believe that you perform best when you understand the rotation as there are small windows where lag sometimes makes the script a little slow. Likely you will do better dps if you use FB aggressively with SotF. Ferals are limited by energy not GCDs and SotF provides 20 energy per finishing move.

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Re: Question about DoC

Postby aggixx » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:30 pm

Leafkiller wrote:Just to be clear, the rotation is implemented the way it is in Ovale because that was the highest dps we could measure in Simulationcraft. We tried different rules for when to aggressively FB in order to get higher Rip uptimes, and what we have simply produces better numbers in our simulations.

You can follow any rotation you wish to, and I do believe that you perform best when you understand the rotation as there are small windows where lag sometimes makes the script a little slow. Likely you will do better dps if you use FB aggressively with SotF. Ferals are limited by energy not GCDs and SotF provides 20 energy per finishing move.


A lot of the metrics used in the SimulationCraft action list and therefore the Ovale script can tend to be more of a guideline than a rule. When we write the conditionals for lines in SimulationCraft it's often incredibly difficult to express complex concepts like "only do this if I won't lose a lot of uptime" so we give it simple expressions like "if rip has at least 6 seconds left then ferocious bite" as it yields the most DPS out of anything we tried.

If you mess around on the dummy you might notice that often times when you do a 6 or 7 second Ferocious Bite, your Rip uptime is saved because your TF is coming up shortly and it gives you a burst of energy you need to get rip back up in a reasonable timeframe. However, when your TF still has a long time left on the cooldown (say you just used it to get the ferocious bite) AND your savage roar is falling off at the same time as your rip then you'll notice that those are the times where you have large stretches of downtime.

The 6 second threshold is something that is an average between these two concepts; essentially, if you have to use the same number in both cases (or all cases, as their is an infinite amount of scenarios that you could quantify) the correct answer is 6 seconds. As a player, you may be able to recognize these situations where it is advantageous NOT to follow these guidelines and to do what you feel is the better choice in that situation, however after having experience working with the action list in SimulationCraft you will very often find that things that intuitively seem like an obvious gain can often be either no gain at all or even a very significant loss.

I would recommend erring on the side of following what the script says unless you feel very strongly that it is more beneficial to do otherwise, and this is also why it is incredibly important to understand the fundamentals of how and why you're doing each action if you want to be able to do the absolute maximum DPS possible.
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