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logs

Postby kittenmittns » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:34 am

hey guys, longtime lurker turned first time poster here. I couldn't figure out where to post for input on my logs since the forums changed, so I made a new thread. Let me know if I need to delete it or post elsewhere.

I've kinda been slacking as far as rep grinding, min/max and all that since on the first day of raids for mists, my guild decided to break from 25m to 10m and leave me in the dust, kind of killing my momentum in this xpac for a while. So I found a new guild and got my first real raid in tonight. Hoping for some input on my dps for my gear level (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... s/advanced), buff/bleed uptimes and if anyone can tell me how I'm doing with DoC. I know I'm not cutting edge here, just wondering if anyone has any feedback for me since I'm a bit rusty now and it's feeling very different from Cata and DS raiding ^^ thanks!

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-9 ... enc=bosses

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Re: logs

Postby Bearcules » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:26 pm

I took a look at your feng logs.

One thing I noticed is you didn't thrash at all. Thrash seems to be part of best practices if you can pop it when omen of clarity hits.

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Re: logs

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:43 pm

Hey guys. Still slammed at work so I have managed to forget to start the Gear/Logs thread. I will start a new one and move this post into it. I will see if I can look at this later this afternoon.

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Re: logs

Postby Jaymzhendo » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:05 pm

I'm no Tinder by any means but some easy to note things.

You're not spec'd into Nature's Swiftness.
Savage Roar uptime, plain and simple more uptime = more DPS. With Glyph of Savagery this should be easier to maintain.
On Feng (heck on most fights) try using Symbiosis on something that gives more dps especially raid dps. DPS Warriors are perfect with Shaman being 2nd in my personal opinion. If on a warrior try to time first Shattering Blow just before first use of TF+Zerk for highest personal benefit. Plus the high energy cost of Shattering sucks so offsetting it is huge. (This is one reason many go with Shaman instead)
3rd lining up TF buff and DoC buff will also increase dps (something I myself am working on) and Nature's Swifness can help with this at certain points. Remember NS doesn't have to be used right away so something like NS > few shreds > HT > TF(+Zerk) > Rip > Rake (or you could replace those few Shreds with Shattering if timing is right and Symb is on a Warrior).
I didn't look to see if you're responsible for the Weakened Armor debuff or not, but again the higher the uptime the more dps. (My apologies if, like me, you have others overwriting yours.)
Also remember that missing a Rake or Rip during DoC makes you use up a stack of the buff so your lower hit and expertise could be hurting more than you realize.

These aren't related to dps exactly but, I personally don't see any use taking Faerie Swarm, the slow doesn't work on bosses and Typhoon or Mass Entanglement will be more beneficial on add fights where the slow would be helpful.
FB glyph... do you find you're casting a lot of FBs? At the end of Cata that glyph was hugely helpful, but now with DoC and reduced crit and haste it's not nearly as helpful. Again it won't effect dps directly but have you given any thought to using Dash or Stamp Roar or heck even Rebirth.
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Re: logs

Postby kittenmittns » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:00 pm

Thanks guys! No I haven't been thrashing single target. I haven't really been clear about when it's beneficial to use it. Should I be keeping up the bleed at all times?

Nope, I went with the self heal and I'm really digging having it. This was my first venture into mists raiding, and with a new guild (unfamiliar healers) so I figured I should stay defensive and maybe pick up NS later. Maybe after one or two more raids I'll give it a try.
I kept forgetting to use Symbiosis. I believe I used it on an Hpal on the fights where I did use it, because I figured an additional brez + having a bubble, even at the cost of damage for a short time, would be nice for fights I wasn't entirely sure about yet. I have played with shattering throw and shaman wolves in 5-mans and the wolves didn't seem terribly useful. I will probably consider using it on a warrior next time.
Are there any fights currently where Typhoon and Mass Entanglement are usable?
My response for the FB glyph will be the same as just about everything else-- trying to play defensively in unfamiliar content. I have considered taking the stampeding roar glyph.

I know that feel, Tinder. I'm glad it wasn't just me not being able to find the thread! Thanks for all the input.

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Re: logs

Postby Artika » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:31 am

Since this thread was already here I thought I'd add in to see if I'm missing anything I could be doing to improve my DPS numbers. Overall I don't think I'm too far off, though I have not tried raiding with a DoC spec since I'd been using HoTW up until the recent retuning of the ability. All logs are done of 25 man heroic in MSV. I don't notice too many issues in terms of uptime for SR though some instances of rip/rake seem to be a bit low. I try to line up DoC with tiger's fury when I can though it can be difficult in practice. I've previously healed since ICC as a bit of background, so playing feral for MoP is a bit new to me as I've never raided as cat before, only healing/tank.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-b ... enc=bosses

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/m ... ika/simple

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Re: logs

Postby Jaymzhendo » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:48 am

You should take NS over Renewal for the ability to use it to help time your DoC buff, and thus increase DPS. In addition to that you should take it for the exact reason you're taking Renewal. Healing Touch can crit, Renewal can not, NS has half the CD of Renewal and heals (normally) for just a bit under what Renewal does. The final straw that leans in favor of NS is the fact you don't HAVE to use it on yourself, nor do you HAVE to cast a heal. In the end NS is just flat out better for any possible use.

I know Mass Entangle works on some adds, iirc Elegon adds in particular is where I found it the most helpful. Typhoon is a free multi-mob interrupt, which I found helpful for the first 3-4 trash pulls in MSV. I also found it semi helpful on Elegon trash. It was also helpful for Will of the Emperor in LFR (can't speak for normal -yet- sorry, but I'd think it would be).

As to Symbiosis I've basically been running with it on a Warrior for every fight except Stone Guards. The extra Stamp Roar is invaluable even with 2+ druids in raid all the time (Bear, Kitty, Boomkin, 2 Trees) but mostly because it's a raid dps increase, it just requires a bit of timing due to its high energy cost and extremely long CD. I really WANT to use a Shaman but the dps increase isn't high enough to justify it while I'm still progressing, I have played with it though, and as has been mentioned on these forums it doesn't add a ton of dps (~300 iirc, over a fight) but it is still a dps increase.

I understand the thought process behind the glyph, and I'd agree if we were getting a lot of FBs off. I still use it on Feng because that's the only fight I've found it useful for due to the final burn phase damage. Every other fight I either go sillyness with Prowl (mostly cause I forget to change out after dailies), or usefulness with Stamp Roar range increase.

Hope this helps =)
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Re: logs

Postby Bearcules » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:08 am

kittenmittns wrote:Thanks guys! No I haven't been thrashing single target. I haven't really been clear about when it's beneficial to use it. Should I be keeping up the bleed at all times?


I'm not the expert on when to Thrash, but I do make sure to use it when I get Omen of Clarity procs or when I can otherwise use it without impacting CP generation, for example when I've got 5 CPs and Rip is still on but will drop off in a few seconds, so not quite ready to Rip.

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Re: logs

Postby Jaymzhendo » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:17 pm

I've devised an Expression Editor query to help myself judge my uses of Rip and Rake during DoC and TF, as well as usage of SR.

Select the fight you want to analyze, go to Expression Editor, copy+paste, replace your name where mine is, run the query, click the Timeline tab, then Plot.
You will see a square for when DoC becomes active and when it falls off, the same for SR and TF - I placed them as auras in the query to accomplish this.
I then set it to ONLY show CASTS of Rake and Rip, not ticks, not when they drop off.

I know there can be improvement to this query and I know that using multiple queries to judge different things like Rip and Rake usage will go miles to understanding if you're doing things "properly" on each fight. However since the new difficulty is timing DoC I thought I'd share my hastily built query for that.

Code: Select all
sourceName="Jaymz" and type=6 and spellid=1079 or type=6 and spellid=1822 or type=4 and spellid=108381 or type=4 and spellid=5217 or type=4 and spell="Savage Roar"


I need (and intend) to add in a Pred. Swiftness buff check to this, will update once I find the time. Stupid dailies, farming, fishing, etc etc etc...
Last edited by Jaymzhendo on Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: logs

Postby Jaymzhendo » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:33 pm

@Aritka - ditch glyph of Shred, to my knowledge it was shown to be a dps loss. Plus you should never be in front of the boss.

Don't die to dogs, Cats RULE! =)

I'll readily admit I'm unfamiliar with the mechanics of heroics and so I can't really suggest a lot, try the Expression Editor Query I posted above, check to make sure you're getting your buffs lined up and that you're not wasting any DoC buffs anywhere. Then of course take into consideration the mechanics of the fight, you'll be better equipped to judge such things than I at this point.
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Re: logs

Postby Nepplol » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:28 am

Hello there are my last 2 kills of 25 HC Stone Guard and 25 HC Feng.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-p3cgi ... 814&e=4158
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-p3cgi ... 14&e=12146

I don't understand why my parses aren't better. Uptime seems good, maybe a bit unlucky on dot crit. I have the feeling that I clip my dot too early but I don't know a way to see that on log.

Any suggestions ?

Thanks

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Re: logs

Postby Dysheki » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:43 am

Jaymzhendo wrote:@Aritka - ditch glyph of Shred, to my knowledge it was shown to be a dps loss. Plus you should never be in front of the boss.


I'm fairly certain the GoS issue was fixed. Could be wrong, but I thought it was.

And for 'always being behind a boss' of course you should - but the problem is when you have bosses that are constantly turning because of mechanics. Nothing more annoying than wasting a bit of time because a boss did something to prevent you from shredding immediately when you are severely GCD limited during berserk (making berserk back to 15 seconds and adding a mechanic that forces you to use 1.5s GCD HTs seems stupid . . . but I digress).
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Re: logs

Postby aggixx » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:43 pm

Dysheki wrote:
I'm fairly certain the GoS issue was fixed. Could be wrong, but I thought it was


There was a bug where Shred! damage was lower that was fixed a while ago, but Glyph of Shred will still be a DPS loss in any situation where you aren't either energy capping or losing Shreds during Berserk.
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Re: logs

Postby kaiadam » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:54 pm

How is it a dps loss? Do we have another glyph that can go in its slot for a dps gain? GoS doesn't imply that you're attacking from the front, rather, that -if- you are attacking from the front, you don't get a stupid "have to be behind target" message and waste a few precious berserk moments repositioning.

Furthermore, it's a dps boost on bosses that constantly face the raid, eg. Qiang the Merciless, or one that swivels around while it picks secondary cast targets that you really can't ever be permanently "behind" of, but even though they can't dodge or parry during the cast, you still have to get behind to shred (Zian).

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Re: logs

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:42 pm

The glyph of Shred is at best DPS netural or a DPS loss due to parries. A parry will result in a lost GCD and lost energy (and lost damage). A warning of "you are not behind the target" loses nothing but perhaps a moment for the boss to turn around and you to get the shred in. Inexperienced players that may energy cap because they don't see the warning and in those cases shred may help. Experienced players will see the warning and wait for the boss to turn again just as quick, or fix positioning.

Our glyph choices are bad ones as we have 2 required and then nothing really of note. I perfer the rebirth glyph myself for progression, or stampeding roar for specific fights.

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Re: logs

Postby Terias » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:24 am

Roar, Dash, or SI on very specific fights.

Feel like shred just lets you hit shred when you wouldn't want to a lot of the time.

I think I use my sprints on every single fight this expansion so far, you move around a lot on pretty much all of them (and it's nice to sprint your whole raid on some of them too).

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Re: logs

Postby aggixx » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:16 am

kaiadam wrote:How is it a dps loss? Do we have another glyph that can go in its slot for a dps gain? GoS doesn't imply that you're attacking from the front, rather, that -if- you are attacking from the front, you don't get a stupid "have to be behind target" message and waste a few precious berserk moments repositioning.

Furthermore, it's a dps boost on bosses that constantly face the raid, eg. Qiang the Merciless, or one that swivels around while it picks secondary cast targets that you really can't ever be permanently "behind" of, but even though they can't dodge or parry during the cast, you still have to get behind to shred (Zian).


That's exactly what I said though, all of those situations are ones where you would either lose shred during your berserks or potentially energy cap if you did not have the glyph, and that is when you take it. If you're not in such a situation it will be a DPS loss because it allows you to cause parries.
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Re: logs

Postby Dysheki » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:46 am

kaiadam wrote:Furthermore, it's a dps boost on bosses that constantly face the raid, eg. Qiang the Merciless, or one that swivels around while it picks secondary cast targets that you really can't ever be permanently "behind" of, but even though they can't dodge or parry during the cast, you still have to get behind to shred (Zian).

Exactly my point. Many bosses have predictable movement and you don't really need it. But for bosses you can't be behind or ones that constantly swivel around it becomes important (imo) to get that off while GCD capped. For example, if you end up trying to stay behind Meng all the time when he constantly turns around while cowardiced I think you end up with way too much down time compared to the possibility of a parried swing (again, only while berserking). Granted, would you want to berserk during his cowardice? Probably not much and at best only early (our first Spirit Kings kill I was dead for ~40% of the fight because of berserk during cowardice, lol). But I still think it's the way to go.

I understand the point of it being dps neutral at best, but how much I use it just depends on the situation and how often the boss/mob ends up turning around.
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Re: logs

Postby aggixx » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:06 pm

It's not "DPS neutral at best", it's a DPS gain if used correctly and a DPS loss if used incorrectly, you just have to make sure you're not doing the latter.
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