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Feral and aggro

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Feral and aggro

Postby Sabrac » Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:47 am

Greetings all,

Long time lurker, first time poster here with a question that has been bothering me for a while.
I've tried using the search functions but were unable to find anything related to this topic.

As a feral dps i seem to be running into the issue of threat, however i only notice it at about 70 % of the tanks.
I've talked to the tanks in question but they said that it was only me who overaggroes them and that nobody else seems to be doing it.

In both heroics and raids I tend to overaggro the tanks with ease. Just by dotting up the Stone guards for example is usually enough to get me aggro. The same goes for heroic bosses, the moment I think i'm safe and use some cooldowns to increase my dps, the threat skyrockets and within seconds I've overaggroed the tank.

This causes me to hold back on DPS quite a lot, which for encounters like the Spiritbinder, isn't really a good idea.
So far I've tried 7 tanks, of which 5 i could overaggro. Gearwise there wasn't much inbetween me and them either.

I'm currently at an iLvl of 475 and the tanks in question were between 470 and 475 themselves.

Basicall what is boils down to is, are ferals that Threat hungry or do the tanks not utilize their aggro / high threat abilities correctly which causes me to overaggro? I't s quite a shame having to hold back, while another dps in our raid group (DK) can pull the same numbers with like 20-30 % less threat.

Thanks for taking your time.

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Re: Feral and aggro

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:55 am

I am guessing you are refering to LFR when talking about Stone Guardians and Gara'jal. It is my experience that LFR and a lot of dungeon tanks just arn't using their threat properly. Even a tank that you out gear should be able to keep threat off you after the first 5 seconds. Are you experiencing this with guild tanks as well?

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Re: Feral and aggro

Postby Sabrac » Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:11 am

Tinderhoof wrote:I am guessing you are refering to LFR when talking about Stone Guardians and Gara'jal. It is my experience that LFR and a lot of dungeon tanks just arn't using their threat properly. Even a tank that you out gear should be able to keep threat off you after the first 5 seconds. Are you experiencing this with guild tanks as well?


Yes, i am experiencing this in normal Mogushan vaults aswell, with guild tanks. The only 2 tanks i had no problems with was when i helped another guild taking on the Spiritbinder, which was the first time i could actually go all out without worrying about aggro at all.

[EDIT] To clarify, the 2 guild tanks I got this issue with are a warrior tank and a blood DK.
Another tank I noticed this on was a paladin tank, but he's excused cause I outgeared him by 20 iLvls and it was only for a short duration.

It's especially the warrior tank where I notice i'm constantly at 90-95 % threat, even when holding back.
Once I go all out, I can usually gain aggro again the moment taunt runs out.

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Re: Feral and aggro

Postby Dysheki » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:00 am

Not sure how exactly to respond to this without sounding like a douche, but the tanks need to not be bad :| Vengeance makes it incredibly easy to maintain aggro and threat shouldn't be an issue. Early on it can be a little shaky, especially since the dogs will take 90% less damage at the start until the two are grouped together, but after a few seconds everything should be fine. Also, when a switch happens and the lone dog comes in to be the second dog it could also be a little shaky until the 90% runs down, but still shouldn't be an issue after a few seconds.

So outside of those two short windows threat should be a non-issue for any tanking class (edit: even undergeared tanks).
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Re: Feral and aggro

Postby Reerun » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:29 pm

I've just switched over from rogue to kitty, so I may be completely wrong in this, but couldn't you just use symbiosis with a hunter for feign death? Seems to me like that would be alot less of a dps loss than "holding back" on your rotation/dps cooldowns. Again, I'm brand spankin new in the ways of the cat (too many rogues in my raid group), so I may be missing something obvious here...

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Re: Feral and aggro

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:30 pm

Is it possible to have armory links of you and your tanks? Do you have any logs when this happened?

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Re: Feral and aggro

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:34 pm

Reerun wrote:I've just switched over from rogue to kitty, so I may be completely wrong in this, but couldn't you just use symbiosis with a hunter for feign death? Seems to me like that would be alot less of a dps loss than "holding back" on your rotation/dps cooldowns. Again, I'm brand spankin new in the ways of the cat (too many rogues in my raid group), so I may be missing something obvious here...

No you have this completely right here. I think many of us forgot about this Symbiosis (feign) because for the most part we should never really need it. It is an option for the short term.
The expectation though is that Vengence should make it really impossible after the first few seconds for any DPS to catch up with a tank unless the tank dies or stops pressing buttons. I would advise getting with your guild tanks and try and find out what their opening rotations are like. As long as you arn't coming from "you must be doing something wrong" angle you should be able to work out how to get them ahead after a 5 count that you can't catch up with.

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Re: Feral and aggro

Postby Sabrac » Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:44 am

Reerun wrote:I've just switched over from rogue to kitty, so I may be completely wrong in this, but couldn't you just use symbiosis with a hunter for feign death? Seems to me like that would be alot less of a dps loss than "holding back" on your rotation/dps cooldowns. Again, I'm brand spankin new in the ways of the cat (too many rogues in my raid group), so I may be missing something obvious here...


Ye, it was an option indeed, but for survivability / raid utility i had given it to the paladin healer (in case he needed to rebirth) and it gave me a bubble in case epicenter failed.

Apparently the tanks in question have now gotten more hit and expertise, which should increase their threat generation :).

Dysheki wrote:Not sure how exactly to respond to this without sounding like a douche, but the tanks need to not be bad :| Vengeance makes it incredibly easy to maintain aggro and threat shouldn't be an issue. Early on it can be a little shaky, especially since the dogs will take 90% less damage at the start until the two are grouped together, but after a few seconds everything should be fine. Also, when a switch happens and the lone dog comes in to be the second dog it could also be a little shaky until the 90% runs down, but still shouldn't be an issue after a few seconds.

So outside of those two short windows threat should be a non-issue for any tanking class (edit: even undergeared tanks).


I've talked to the tanks and the warrior admitted she wasn't doing her full to get high aggro.

Tinderhoof wrote:Is it possible to have armory links of you and your tanks? Do you have any logs when this happened?


I don't have any logs, but i'll start doing this coming wednesday on our new raid and will post them if aggro is still an issue.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/v ... c/advanced (my druid)
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/v ... s/advanced (paladin tank)
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/v ... t/advanced (warrior tank) now with higher expertise :D
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/v ... p/advanced (DK tank)

On the stone guards I only had an issue with aggro on the initial pull btw, which is normal cause tanks have to build up aggro aswell and through tanking i hardly ever got close to aggro again (once in a while my omen did trigger though).

On Feng the issue was more clear and on the spiritbinder the issue wasnt there due to the boss mechanics to focus on the highest / 2nd highest on threat and my spirit realm journeys :)
Last edited by Sabrac on Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Feral and aggro

Postby Sabrac » Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:12 am

Ok, i had written a long post but apparently it wasn't posted (Maybe it awaits approval or something, i don't know).

Either way, I did discuss the issue with the tanks and it seems that their initial aggro wasn't optimal (atleast according to them).
The warrior tank has also gemmed into expertise some more for more rage generation / threat generation.

Will post the results this wednesday (after our next raid)

[EDIT] Just saw the big post was posted aswell :)

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Re: Feral and aggro

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:52 am

When you have that many links in a message it does get held for approval. Approved!

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Re: Feral and aggro

Postby Woem » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:18 am

Same issue when I was speccing incarnation. Took me a week to fathom "Wait, I can stealth during this"

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Re: Feral and aggro

Postby Sabrac » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:06 am

Woem wrote:Same issue when I was speccing incarnation. Took me a week to fathom "Wait, I can stealth during this"


Ah, ye, well during incarnation i can understand it cause your burst is a lot higher, however i'm using SotF (the spec i logged out with yesterday was my guardian spec, in there, i do have incarnation). so stealthing during a fight isn't an option either :). Considering i helped another guild with their MSV run yesterday, i gave it a try to get feign death from a hunter, however with these 2 tanks i had no issue whatsoever with aggro (prepotting etc). Hopefully the same happens tonight, would be great ^^.

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Re: Feral and aggro

Postby Woem » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:55 pm

As long as the tanks are doing what they are supposed to be, it should not be an issue, Im using SotF as well now. Only time I pull aggro is the mass pull on 4th boss of HoF

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Re: Feral and aggro

Postby Sabrac » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:26 pm

Well, i have to say whatever they did, it worked out alright, the only time i still had to hold back was the first 20-30 seconds on feng the accursed.

Log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-0 ... boss=60009

Noticed that I hit 100 to 120k dps in the beginning of the fight, so that might just be the reason why :) once the dps drops, so does the aggro :D

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